EPTTSL Player Eligibility and Nongminzerg - Page 5
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36389 Posts
On November 12 2009 12:43 ketomai wrote: Alright, now can you please address why nongmin goes against those goals. Yes, he 'grew up' in a professional scene, but if you think about it, he only grew up there between 2000-2005, a time period in which he was 10-14 years old. Are you saying that the benefit he received when he was 10-14 (an age in which he most probably did not play SC seriously and was not old enough to compete in any events in Korea anyways) is enough to ban him? Banning Idra would hurt the TSL, yes, but it SHOULD be that you either would definitively ban both Idra and Nongmin, who both have 'exposure', or allow both to play, or you allow both to play (Idra as a foreign 'hero' and Nongmin because he does not go against the criteria to the magnitude that Idra does). My argument is going to be invalid because you will say that it's your tournament, your rules (which it is), but are you really going to throw nongmin under the bus like that for happening to vacation during the time period the TSL happens to take place, despite having little to no advantage over the average foreigner in terms of 'exposure'? If its easier, think about it this way -- default rule is we ban both player X and Y for either being on a proteam, growing up/residing in a country with a proscene. Then we look and see if there's a compelling reason to allow an exception for one of them. Player X: member of foreigner community for a long time, recognized by fans, participated in many foreigner tournaments / showmatches Player Y: recently joined foreigner community, not well known or recognized by fans, participated in 0 foreigner tournaments / showmatches Our options are, 1) ban both, or 2) allow when there is enough reason to grant an exception. We're clearly doing #2 and we obviously believe that only Player X has enough of a compelling reason to be granted an exception. | ||
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
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tRi[T]oN
United States181 Posts
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
However, the fact is it's the TL staff's tournament, not the public SC community. They can do whatever they want even if the majority disagrees. Personally I think the clearest and simplest rule should be to disallow anyone playing in Korea and any professional SC player. So nonming, Idra, and Ret would not be able to play (nonming being in Korea at the time of TSL and Idra/Ret having associations with proSC). | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On November 12 2009 12:50 Hot_Bid wrote: If its easier, think about it this way -- default rule is we ban both player X and Y for either being on a proteam, growing up/residing in a country with a proscene. Then we look and see if there's a compelling reason to allow an exception for one of them. Player X: member of foreigner community for a long time, recognized by fans, participated in many foreigner tournaments / showmatches Player Y: recently joined foreigner community, not well known or recognized by fans, participated in 0 foreigner tournaments / showmatches Our options are, 1) ban both, or 2) allow when there is enough reason to grant an exception. We're clearly doing #2 and we obviously believe that only Player X has enough of a compelling reason to be granted an exception. Ok so you are admitting that the 'growing up' rule is tailored specifically for Idra. Can you not even bend the rules even slightly for nongmin, who now can't participate in neither any korean leagues nor the biggest foreign tournament? If he's not part of the foreign community yet, and he's obviously not part of the korean community, he really has no way to compete. He missed ASL due to coincidence and he's missing this TSL2 due to coincidence. Are the rules really so rigid that you can't even allow such understandable circumstances? We were all bagging on Kespa punishing the 'a' incident, and it looks like you guys are doing the same thing. I'm guessing you agree with having strict, never moving rules in place, which is why you made up that rule for Idra T.T. Oh well, I"m surprised nongmin is still willing to stream and accept it. If it were me I'd be infuriated. | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
It comes off as favoritism. But it's your tourney so you guys can do whatever you want. | ||
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Twilight Templar
99 Posts
Now i'm sad.  | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
IdrA/Ret/Rek etc.. they are non koreans who have moved to korea and been there for a very limited amount of time. Rek has been there longest but he blows so who cares  | ||
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Chromyne
Canada561 Posts
On November 12 2009 13:00 lac29 wrote: This is just the feeling I get, but I think If Idra was on the A team on CJ, TL staff would still let him play TSL. Idra is an exception to the rules, so yes you're probably right. | ||
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tRi[T]oN
United States181 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On November 12 2009 13:00 lac29 wrote: This is just the feeling I get, but I think If Idra was on the A team on CJ, TL staff would still let him play TSL. If and when he starts raping proleague and msl you REALLY believe we would let him play in TSL? REALLY???!!!! | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
On November 12 2009 13:02 Chromyne wrote: Idra is an exception to the rules, so yes you're probably right. Actually under their new rules for TSL2, Idra isn't an exception. He doesn't violate any of the rules to make him ineligible. In this way TL staff doesn't have to say their giving any "exceptions" (whether it's their intention or not to go about doing this). On November 12 2009 13:05 Kennigit wrote: If and when he starts raping proleague and msl you REALLY believe we would let him play in TSL? REALLY???!!!! Ken: Unfortunately I think you guys would =(. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36389 Posts
On November 12 2009 12:56 ketomai wrote: Ok so you are admitting that the 'growing up' rule is tailored specifically for Idra. Can you not even bend the rules even slightly for nongmin, who now can't participate in neither any korean leagues nor the biggest foreign tournament? If he's not part of the foreign community yet, and he's obviously not part of the korean community, he really has no way to compete. He missed ASL due to coincidence and he's missing this TSL2 due to coincidence. Are the rules really so rigid that you can't even allow such understandable circumstances? We were all bagging on Kespa punishing the 'a' incident, and it looks like you guys are doing the same thing. I'm guessing you agree with having strict, never moving rules in place, which is why you made up that rule for Idra T.T. Oh well, I"m surprised nongmin is still willing to stream and accept it. If it were me I'd be infuriated. If our rules were too rigid, we'd not allow Idra or Ret or Naz or Rek or Legionnaire or anyone who set foot in Korea and even sniffed some pro-training. We "bent" the fairness rules for players who were a large part of the foreigner community and who fans wanted to see play in a tournament. We decided that Nongmin didn't qualify for this exception. If its easier, just read the two rules as "no proteam players can play in TSL" and X Y Z players are granted an exception because they have been longstanding members of the foreigner community and the tournament and fans would be very disappointed if they didn't play. How about that? | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
On November 12 2009 13:07 Kennigit wrote: Then you don't understand anything we posted in this thread. Sorry but the way you guys are wording things and your rationale makes it hard (for me at least) to think you're being fair. Yes I read everything. And I believe I've replied in a reasonable way. You guys think Idra is a important contributing member to the SC community (and under the new rules he isn't technically an "exception"). And yes, I realize this is your tournament so you guys can set whatever rules you want. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On November 12 2009 13:08 Hot_Bid wrote: If our rules were too rigid, we'd not allow Idra or Ret or Naz or Rek or Legionnaire or anyone who set foot in Korea and even sniffed some pro-training. We "bent" the fairness rules for players who were a large part of the foreigner community and who fans wanted to see play in a tournament. We decided that Nongmin didn't qualify for this exception. If its easier, just read the two rules as "no proteam players can play in TSL" and X Y Z players are granted an exception because they have been longstanding members of the foreigner community and the tournament and fans would be very disappointed if they didn't play. How about that? I agreed to that already. I'm just asking if Player W (nongmin) who isn't a long standing member of the community but happens to be fucked over by your rules right as it starts should get an exception too. It's not as if he doesn't have the contribution to back it up. If anything I find his contribution to TL more valuable than being a 'long standing member' who does not contribute anything. All I"m asking is for you to sympathize with nongmin, who doesn't deserved to be ditched twice by such faggotry of coincidences. | ||
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tRi[T]oN
United States181 Posts
We "bent" the fairness rules for players who were a large part of the foreigner community and who fans wanted to see play in a tournament. Yes he is a new member of the community he is becoming a large part of it, that is if you would let him. | ||
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jiabung
United States720 Posts
Since both players presumably will not lag, I took the first clause out. A player can play in the TSL if EITHER: *he did not grow up in South Korea OR *he is not currently living in South Korea AND not a PROGAMER (affiliated with a professional SC team) Therefore, Idra can play in the TSL because he did not grow up in South Korea, although he is living in South Korea AND a progamer. Nongmin should also be allowed to play in the TSL because although he will be living in South Korea during the TSL, he will NOT BE A PROGAMER during that time. (NONGMIN DOES NOT MEET THE "AND" CLAUSE FOR THIS RULE!!!) Therefore, although Nongmin grew up in South Korea, the rules specifically state that a player can play if they do not lag and are not living in South Korea AND not affiliated with a professional SC team. Nongmin will not be affiliated with a professional SC team, during the time the TSL is running. So yeah, basically Nongmin is allowed to play in TSL2 based completely on the original OP rules.... I suggest the moderators reread their own rules very carefully. prove me wrong.. (please don't cause i really want nongmin to play) | ||
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