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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On November 12 2009 11:36 Thratur wrote:
Wouldn't an official poll be a good idea? I know we are not a democracy, and I accept your decision, but maybe most people would agree to allow him? It looks that you had to decide whether to grant an exception or not... Wouldn't it be possible for the community to make that decision?
We had a staff vote/input. Obviously 99% of people on TL would say "LET HIM PLAY!"...They don't take into account the larger issues we are faced with. We read the thread and the opinions were noted but thats not how we make decisions.
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Idra and ret are both in Korea and affiliated with a professional starcraft team. (at least idra is)
Idra and ret are in Korea to TRAIN and get better. They moved to Korea for the purpose of improving their skills at SC and immersing themselves in higher caliber players. And they will be there indefinitely.
Nongmin is in Korea to vacation. And will be back to live in the US for another 4 years afterwards.
I don't agree with the decision.
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I was under the impression that all the conditions would have to apply to allow a player to participate.
My bad.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
It feels like the rules were made specifically to stop Nongmin from playing in the TSL.
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God people are so retarded at reading sometimes...
I think it is somewhat unfair that IdrA, who has been a member of a progaming team for some months now is being allowed to play while Nongmin, who has never been on a pro team, isn't. I mean, it's clear that IdrA has an advantage over every other participant.
Also just curious, if some "pro" Chinese player like PJ could play without lag would they be allowed? Or is China's scene considered pro. I assume you are considering China to have a proscene otherwise you may as well have saved some characters and written Korea.
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United Kingdom305 Posts
On November 12 2009 11:45 T.O.P. wrote:
It feels like the rules were made specifically to stop Nongmin from playing in the TSL.
This is how I feel I guess. Too many inconsistencies 
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Yes, the guidelines were based on his situation. It sucks, but there is nothing you can do about it.
Like they said rules are rules.
It was meant to be a top foreigner tourney and it will stay that way.
This raises another question: will Chinese with good connections be allowed to play, or do they fall into the professional scene category?
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On November 12 2009 11:44 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2009 11:36 Thratur wrote:
Wouldn't an official poll be a good idea? I know we are not a democracy, and I accept your decision, but maybe most people would agree to allow him? It looks that you had to decide whether to grant an exception or not... Wouldn't it be possible for the community to make that decision? We had a staff vote/input. Obviously 99% of people on TL would say "LET HIM PLAY!"...They don't take into account the larger issues we are faced with. We read the thread and the opinions were noted but thats not how we make decisions.
Interesting. I don't want to argue or anything considering that I'm neutral in that story. It's just that I've always considered that democracy is very important and that in that case the general opinion was obvious. I'm curious then about what were these larger issues the general opinion has forgotten to take into account. Was it the latency? Is it impossible to fix or something? Are they more technical issues? I believe that 1984ing everything is probably worse than trying to get to a peaceful compromise by telling us more details. But well, as I said, we are not, sadly, in a democracy.
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On November 12 2009 11:45 T.O.P. wrote:
It feels like the rules were made specifically to stop Nongmin from playing in the TSL.
They were made to stop the zillions of amateur Koreans who have easy access to the pro scene from playing. Unfortunately, with Nongmin being in Korea, and having grown up in Korea (and having even been offered test games with KT), there's not much differentiating him from them.
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There is no general opinion or democracy at TL Thratur. They clearly state that in the commandments.
It is their HOUSE and their TOURNAMENT.
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Yeah, I know, that's why I said it wasn't a democracy. But well, I can still try to change things, even if I fail! I'm kinda an idealist...
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On November 12 2009 11:07 Hot_Bid wrote:
Thus, we have created this rule for TSL Player Eligibility:
[list]A player is eligible to play in the TSL if:
[*]He does not have connection lag that would significantly impact quality of play; AND
[*]He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene; OR
[*]He currently resides in a location without a professional StarCraft scene and is not affiliated
For the sake of transparency the bolded section should be replaced with "a place besides South Korea."
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I know Sorrow. They need a rewrite.
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This is... really strangely worded.
In the end your saying the only reason Nongmin isn't going to be able to participate is a matter of location at that given time?
How odd. I don't understand what difference it would make considering you would have allowed him to play if he were currently residing in the US. Just seems kinda... odd with Nongmin being in Korea only temporarily and such.
but ehh it's your tournament. At least you told us what's going on regardless of how sad the decision is.
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On November 12 2009 11:59 Jayme wrote:
This is... really strangely worded.
In the end your saying the only reason Nongmin isn't going to be able to participate is a matter of location at that given time?
How odd. I don't understand what difference it would make considering you would have allowed him to play if he were currently residing in the US. Just seems kinda... odd with Nongmin being in Korea only temporarily and such.
but ehh it's your tournament. At least you told us what's going on regardless of how sad the decision is.
yes i found that part to be rather odd as well.
i guess having an A rank and 2 A- rank accounts on iccup renders him ineligible however.
sigh.. at least nongmin is taking it better than most of his supporters.
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How do being offered test games in like 2005 have anything over actually training and living at a pro house. It seems like you guys wanted to exclude anyone pro but had to try to stick in Idra there somewhere so you added the "grew up in a place without a professional scene" bs. How does growing up when you're like 6th grade compare to actually going over there to play on a pro team when you're 18 or over. It just makes no sense. You get MORE out of training when you're older than nongmin got when he was 'exposed' to the scene back in elementary through junior high. Seriously, if you want to say, we'll let only foreigners and idra play, then just say it... I don't understand why nongmin moving on vacation for a little while when he has little exposure in the main time he's played starcraft for the past 4 years is SO MUCH different from someone who just moved to to a foreign country and doesn't happen to be going to korea for a few months.
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On November 12 2009 11:59 Jayme wrote:
This is... really strangely worded.
In the end your saying the only reason Nongmin isn't going to be able to participate is a matter of location at that given time?
How odd. I don't understand what difference it would make considering you would have allowed him to play if he were currently residing in the US. Just seems kinda... odd with Nongmin being in Korea only temporarily and such.
but ehh it's your tournament. At least you told us what's going on regardless of how sad the decision is.
i suspect the only reason they allow nongmin to play if he was in US is because theres no way to prove if a US ip is being used by a korean who "grew up" in korea
otherwise they'd ban all people who grew up in a proscene environment and moved to a different country if it was possible
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I say if the competitors all agree it is ok for Nongmin to play then ya'll should let him but all it takes is one person to say they wouldn't like for him to play then it is settled because it should be up to the players not just the staff holding the tournament..
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EPT
