EPT
just had a 
Flash of Genius!
CrunCher can't be proven to have streamcheated.But neither can
IdrA be proven to intend to harrass Chill with that statement. No evidence.Sick how my mind works, huh?
User was temp banned for this post.
Idra Banned for 90 Days - Page 44
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Hello, all! It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully. Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil. Thanks, Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
just had a Flash of Genius!CrunCher can't be proven to have streamcheated.But neither can IdrA be proven to intend to harrass Chill with that statement. No evidence.Sick how my mind works, huh? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:46 Phanekim wrote: i was originally thinking TL house = TL rules. fair enough. however, to be serious...i dont know. his quote wreaked of venting. but surely he should be allowed to vent in his own fanclub thread? In my opinion, he didn't deserve the ban initially. the actions aftewards were sorta low by him. i understand both points of view but man...that seem very light. of course i have been temp banned for much less. it doesnt' seem fair at times to me but like i said its TL forum. they can do whatever they want. ultimately i dont think it really mattesr and idra will keep being the nerdy bad boy that he is because quite frankly he is the most popular/identifiable player on foriegn scene and perseonally i wouldn't follow esports as closely if it wasn't for him. TL House. Streamers rent rooms. We leave them alone unless there are noise complaints? | ||
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Twiggs
United States600 Posts
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Wiseman
United States41 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:46 elmizzt wrote: That's funny, because I think if TL didn't handle these occurences with such dignity and level-headed impartiality, THAT would be the real travesty. I think I would take issue that they handled it with dignity and level-headed impartiality. If they wanted to do that they should of 2-day banned them both for acting like children. Cruncher coming to idra's thread and trolling his fans seems just as bad as idra telling his fans that cruncher is a waste of life. The 90 day ban for harassing Chill was justified. The point I am making is that the situation was blown out of proportion by the initial 2-day ban, and that is the travesty. They could have avoided this entire thread, the whole harassing Chill issue, by taking a more measured approach to the conflict. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule19200 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:50 Mailing wrote: JTV's site, JTV's rules. TL's site, TL's rules. IdrA's chat is on JTV. His fanclub is on TL.Uh.. Streams? Who watches idra streams -> his fans. Can idra BM there? -> yes. Who goes into idras personal stream thread -> his fans. Can idra BM there? -> No. It doesn't make sense. If TL really cared they would have to refuse to host the stream at all. | ||
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Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:43 Bayyne wrote: Just an idea here to address what can be done if there isn't enough evidence to prove someone actually watched someone's stream while in the game. It's obvious cruncher watched idra's stream to queue up against him, he even admitted that. I agree that is not a big issue. However, it's impossible to prove that cruncher was listening and/or watching idra's stream while the game was going on. Yes cruncher provided a screenshot of idra's stream being muted. But what if he somehow unmuted during the game? What if cruncher has a laptop sitting next to him? What if cruncher has dual monitors? Too many variables and possibilities would make it impossible to find sufficient evidence to show cruncher did in fact stream hack while the game was going on. Possible solution? Establish a presumption that if a particular player is watching another player's stream to "snipe" them, they will be considered stream cheating. This will be a rebuttable presumption. The accused will then have the burden of proving (by some standard TL wants to create) that he did watch the victim's stream to cheat in game, just to snipe them. Just my thoughts. If he was doing any of those things you say he might've done then he wouldn't of needed to open the stream on his main monitor which is what the viewers see. He would've just opened the stream on his laptop or second monitor. And if he "unmuted" the stream during the game the viewers would've heard it as well since we hear everything from his stream. There is no evidence that he used Idra's stream to gain an unfair advantage during the game. No one can prove anything other than he used Idra's stream to have a better chance at playing him. Nothing more, Nothing less. If people don't want to ever be "ghosted" or "sniped" set your stream on a 5 min delay or don't stream at all. Not that hard really. | ||
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tmorita
United States14 Posts
However, what I don't like is how so many people are accusing IdrA of telling his fans on Twitter to harass Chill. His tweet (straight from @idrajit) states: "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" Nowhere in the tweet does it say "harass/get angry at chill." I'm upset that IdrA's banned, but I'm not going to take it out on Chill. He's doing his job as a moderator. If Chill is indeed getting harassed by angry, uncivilized PMs, we have nobody to blame but our own immature, rage-filled individuals within the eSports community. If Cruncher wants to show off shady sportsmanship, let him. If IdrA wants to rage, ignore him. We're all here for Starcraft and eSports anyways, right? With that said, I hope we can learn from this and work together to improve the quality of eSports and its community. | ||
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a9arnn
United States1537 Posts
Anyways, as for my 2 cents in this, while I'm disappointed IdrA received this ban, he definitely is in the wrong for disrespecting the staff of TL, who've tried so hard to keep the community as in check as possible, spending hours upon hours of free time making sure things don't get too out of hand ( <3 to all of them). That being said, I'm glad IdrA will still be able to participate with his stream (if he decides to), I love watching his stream, and I personally really like him as a player, too bad there's only like 3 days left of his week of commentating his stream D:. I really was looking forward to professional insight on the game; he's one of the most skilled players out there, it would be such a shame to see all that knowledge go to waste, so I think it's great for everyone to still have his stream up. There'll be a really interesting SotG next week, hopefully things don't get too out of hand. Hopefully people can put this behind them and just go on, including IdrA (doubting this'll happen though) and all of TL, this separation in the community is not what we need. PS: This post should not be overlooked. + Show Spoiler + On May 08 2011 09:21 Spekulatius wrote: Just to make sure people don't pull quotes and information out of their asses... The ban-related posts by IdrA: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173866¤tpage=83#1657 http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit (scroll down, not hard to find). Related posts by Cruncher: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=16#301 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=23#446 Idra's ban history: http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg The rest should be found in the OP by Nazgul. | ||
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Caul
Canada8 Posts
Success or Power corrupts, at some point Team Liquid staff and management need to evaluate what the greater success is doing to the "community" belief and attitude. If Team Liquid is only for "the old guard" or those that "toe the line", then I think that Team Liquid needs to address what the goals for the site are. At the same time, EG should ask themselves some hard questions about it means to be on EG. Or is Idra the designated "bad boy" of the team and its his job to stir up controversy. Essentiallyis it just an act or stunt for publicity? I wonder what role Incontrol has been designated? But I digress... Personnely, Idra's act is getting old and tired and is offering nothing new. IMHO he needs to evolve if he wants to continue to be a valued voice in the community and esports in general. As an example, his one dimensional discussion of game balance last week on State of the game. I will watch his games, but read his posts, no, Watch his stream yes - but with the audio off. | ||
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!Shikamaru
Germany21 Posts
Most of the people on this thread can probably agree on Crunchers potential to be annoying. And to me Idras reaction was more than comprehensible. I do respect though, that this is your forum, thus your rules and thus your right, to ban anyone, who doesn't obey these rules. And I can't even say, it was a wrong decision. I do want to point out though, that sensitivity might be a little too pronounced on all of TL. Idra's surely not holy. We all know that. But we all know too, that when he names Cruncher a "waste of life", he doesn't actually mean him to be such. The same goes for his appeal on Twitter. He didn't ask his "fans" to "spam" Chill. He asked his followers, to message him, in order to tell him, that they disliked his decision FOR A REASON. I can't see, why that call has to provoke a 90 day ban. Ok, these messages could've been posts in a thread. They didn't have to be directed to Chill personally. But doesn't TL claim to be kind of a democratic, at least argument-orientated community-site? All mods invest a lot of work and freetime? Of course! They deserve a hell lot of respect for it? Of course! But that doesn't mean, that each of their desicions is sacred. I might not be here for that long, my postcount might be low, but I've read a lot of threads here on TL and I'm totally aware of how difficult it is, to run such a big and highfrequently used communitysite, while keeping it free from insults, disrespect and other inappropriate postingbehaviour (which btw is more than brilliantly done by TL), but TL (from time to time) tends to a pretty arrogant and self-righteous attitude, if I might say so. It's your right, caus' it's your site, but question yourself on whether this really is the way, you want to run your site. It might be your job, to prevent rulebreaking, but not to be the oversensitive morality police in my opinion. | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:52 Dandel Ion wrote: Whoa whoa, I just had a Flash of Genius!CrunCher can't be proven to have streamcheated.But neither can IdrA be proven to intend to harrass Chill with that statement. No evidence.Sick how my mind works, huh? yes he can, he posted it on his twitter dude nice attempt at being clever, but idra was wrong regardless of whether he wants to admit it or not | ||
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RoyaleBrainSlug
United States295 Posts
1. IdrA got banned for insulting someone... nothing new. 2. He then posts about it on his twitter, in which he leads people to message chill about it. 3. Once spoken to by the moderation team, and IdrA not only didn't appologize for what happened to chill, but stated his actions were justified and needed. The 90 day temp ban was put into place and his stream will remain active. People need to calm down, this is a 100% reasonable move made by the moderation team, especially considering IdrA's history as a poster. Frankly I'm surprised he wasn't banned permanently. I don't like the feeling and notion that the only reason we're allowing some one of IdrA's attitude to stay on Teamliquid forums is so that he brings people to Teamliquid. One other thing: Some people need to get it through their heads that Teamliquid resides in no country, so no laws, such as freedom of speech, can be imposed on the forums. EDIT: ANOTHER THING! In any court of law, you cannot win a case based off of circumstantial evidence. Trying to convince the moderation team to ban Cruncher based off of, "he had the stream open" but no evidence that he actually used it at all, is idiotic. Now you might say that in the replay he seemed prepared for everything IdrA did. BUT, Cruncher does play protoss. For the low cost of 25 minerals and 75 gas, you can get this invisible floaty thing that can detect, and you can put it anywhere, over his base, over his army, over your army; wherever! | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote: yes he can, he posted it on his twitter dude nice attempt at being clever, but idra was wrong regardless of whether he wants to admit it or not How is that proof when you have to make assumptions and interpretations? Nothing was explicit. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
He can still stream which is what you guys want and now we don't have to read his whine posts that add absolutely nothing to this site win/win situation IMO o.0 | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
"omg i got so many pms" move on plz. he didnt say anything insulting at all to chill. | ||
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eMazing
59 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:57 Serpico wrote: How is that proof when you have to make assumptions and interpretations? Nothing was explicit. So when IdrA said that his actions where justified that doesn't mean anything either right? | ||
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AimForTheBushes
United States1760 Posts
-"You illiterate piece of shit" - "You piece of shit (multiple) - directly antagonizing moderators and the lovely, - "Faggot" To be fair, "Waste of life" is pretty timid by Idra standards, and is easily overshadowed by the venom that pops up in a typical LR thread. Let the record also show that there was an 8 month period in 2008 where Idra was ban/warning free. I can only assume he was in a coma, or kidnapped by rebel Libyans. | ||
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Pokedude1013
116 Posts
On May 08 2011 09:57 RoyaleBrainSlug wrote: One other thing: some people need to get it through there heads that teamliquid resides in no country, so no laws, such as freedom of speech are imposed on the forums. That's... not the reason, the reason is because it's a private organization (and not therefore not bound to respect freedom of speech etc.) not because it doesn't reside in any country. That's just like saying that very bad things such as cp should be allowed on the internet because the internet does not reside in a country... | ||
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