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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 09:44 Dental Floss wrote:
Posters on Teamliquid are 100% the most thin-skinned of any community I've ever seen. The moderation team should stop being the manner-police and start taking on the trash re: whitenoise posting. I'd rather read 1 person calling me a "waste of life" then 1000 posts made by people who haven't read a thread and are posting the same (polite) garbage over and over.
Pro-gamer grudges are good for esports. Whiney babies who can't stand to read a single mild insult need to grow up.
User was warned for this post
the funny thing is that people with attitude like yours are the ones who get banned here LoL
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In my humble, honest opinion,
Why isn't CrunCher banned for provoking this?
The provoker should be punished in some sort of way as well. The TL community is the most-high level regarded (I don't know how to word it exactly, so I apologize) and I believe it needs to keep with its reputation by preventing any more future occurrences of these "fights" to happen.
We all know, we can't prevent fights from going on, let alone change the IdrA-Cruncher hate/rivalry/war, but at least make it so that it happens privately on e-mail or in person, instead of being out in the open.
I agree with IdrA's ban, but why not ban Cruncher for setting him off? Cruncher should have known better.
Once again, this is my opinion.
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At the end of the day this is TL's forum, their house, their turf, their ground.
+ Show Spoiler +
2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE
Common sense, people, common sense. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (And if you happen to be into masochism, then you're at the wrong site, anyway.)
This doesn't mean you can't get verbally medieval on someone's ass every once in a while. We don't run the place like a septic tank. But, flames are generally discouraged and we expect people to have a damn good reason for resorting to harsh language in the forums. This means gratuitous swearing is a no-no. Trolls will be burned, decapitated and banned. If you must flame, be smart about it. Creative flames will even get you respect — if the flame was warranted to begin with. Generally, you'll almost never go wrong by being nice, polite and mature. All just common sense, people.
+ Show Spoiler +1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accomodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not a "for profit" enterprise. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions. But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply IP ban you. If we're really pissed off, then we IP ban you AND nuke every single post you've uploaded to the site — ever. It will be as if you had never existed here. This is our house. You've been warned.
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On May 08 2011 09:55 Caul wrote:
Whether or not Idra deserved the ban has become less important to me, than ,Team Liquid and the moderators imposing a new set of standards on the community. We saw it with the discussion with EG's annoucement and Tyler's comments on the same and we are seeing it again here.
Success or Power corrupts, at some point Team Liquid staff and management need to evaluate what the greater success is doing to the "community" belief and attitude. If Team Liquid is only for "the old guard" or those that "toe the line", then I think that Team Liquid needs to address what the goals for the site are.
At the same time, EG should ask themselves some hard questions about it means to be on EG. Or is Idra the designated "bad boy" of the team and its his job to stir up controversy. Essentiallyis it just an act or stunt for publicity? I wonder what role Incontrol has been designated? But I digress...
Personnely, Idra's act is getting old and tired and is offering nothing new. IMHO he needs to evolve if he wants to continue to be a valued voice in the community and esports in general. As an example, his one dimensional discussion of game balance last week on State of the game.
I will watch his games, but read his posts, no, Watch his stream yes - but with the audio off.
I have to 100% agree with this post. At this point, I think the concern is not over the ban, but what this ban and other recent events that have occurred as we see the explosion of SC2 onto the eSports scene in the coming summer. This is the first summer of Starcraft II and we will see that landscape that will be the SC2 for years to come take a more defined shape. Team Liquid has a definite place in this landscape, but what that place is not set in stone.
TL and EG, and all NA eSports organizations need to be asking themselves some tough questions about how they want to see the community grow in NA. SC2 has all the potential bring eSports to the mainstream in NA, but it won't get there purely off of being the great game that it is.
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On May 08 2011 09:59 AimForTheBushes wrote:
To be fair, he has toned it down quite a bit..his previous offences include, but are not limited to, gems such as:
-"You illiterate piece of shit"
- "You piece of shit (multiple)
- directly antagonizing moderators
and the lovely, - "Faggot"
To be fair, "Waste of life" is pretty timid by Idra standards, and is easily overshadowed by the venom that pops up in a typical LR thread. Let the record also show that there was an 8 month period in 2008 where Idra was ban/warning free. I can only assume he was in a coma, or kidnapped by rebel Libyans.
That period is forever known as the saddest 8 months out of his life 
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On May 08 2011 09:57 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 08 2011 09:52 Dandel Ion wrote:Whoa whoa, I  just had a  Flash of Genius!  CrunCher can't be proven to have streamcheated. But neither can IdrA be proven to intend to harrass Chill with that statement. No evidence. Sick how my mind works, huh? yes he can, he posted it on his twitter dude nice attempt at being clever, but idra was wrong regardless of whether he wants to admit it or not How is that proof when you have to make assumptions and interpretations? Nothing was explicit.
if you want to be a genuine skeptic about everything then nothing is proven but logical tautologies
but that isn't very practical is it? you should read up on the principle of charity to avoid such impracticalities
there is a clear difference though in the two situations seeing as how in one, the accused actually confessed to the crime
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For those saying posting "everyone pm Chill" on twitter is not really harassment, imagine Charlie Sheen posting "everyone post mail to X" or someone posting X's phone number as Justin Bieber's.
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Nothing I can really complain about here. TL has never been a democracy. Idra was subject to the same rules we all are. Although he received rightful preferential treatment for an extended period of time, every person has a breaking point. Kudos to TL for making a post explaining yourself and allowing people to vent frustrations, as dumb as some comments are.
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On May 08 2011 09:50 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:43 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 08 2011 09:39 Dental Floss wrote:Teamliquid should leave people alone in their own personal community threads. If Idra wants to vent about cruncher in his own fanclub thread let him. Its his thread where he interacts with his fans. If he posted that in the cruncher fanclub then punish him. The funniest part is that if you look at what Idra posted in context he was telling people to leave cruncher alone after they started cyber-stalking him to prove he was stream-watching. Idra tells people to not harass cruncher but to just ignore him and people post this: On May 08 2011 09:34 SkelA wrote:
Instead should get a permaban already. Cant believe the nerve from the "fans" of Idra. If this was anyone else and if Idra didnt get such a favored treatment from TL he would get 5 permabans till now with all the shit hes been pulling out on TL. So TeamLiquid shouldn't moderate a section of their site? Come on now, you know thats not going to end well. Idra has a JTV channel people can talk on. Uh.. Streams? Who watches idra streams -> his fans. Can idra BM there? -> yes. Who goes into idras personal stream thread -> his fans. Can idra BM there? -> No.
So many things wrong with this post. Yes it is his personal stream thread on the public Team Liquid forum. That means it is a Team Liquid thread and falls under Team Liquid rules. He could have BM'd in his JTV chat or on twitter. But he didn't. He did it on TL and broke the rules. Just because the thread is called Stream Idra, doesn't give Idra immunity.
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On May 08 2011 07:40 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:39 Stark1 wrote:On May 08 2011 07:11 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:09 Stark1 wrote:On May 08 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 shmee wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:53 shmee wrote:
I completely understand banning idra for his incendiary behavior, but has Team Liquid taken any action to punish Cruncher for ghosting idra's stream, which was the thing that started this whole mess? Does teamliquid have any kind of statement in regards to that? There's nothing wrong with joining the ladder at the same time as someone else. What action could we possibly take against that? So if you were streaming, and you got matched up against idra, and he magically knew everything you were doing only to find out later that he was checking your stream to see everything you were doing, you wouldn't have any problem with that? No. And thus TL continues to live up to its reputation for horrid, heavily biased moderation. How is A related to B? If someone beat me while I was streaming would I have a problem? No. So I'm biased? What? You're biased because you actively guarded Cruncher despite his admitted stream-cheating, then banned IdrA for calling him out on it. He admitted being on the stream but denied watching or listening to it during the game. I myself have had a stream open while waiting to play someone in bw and then asking them for the game once they finish the one they're in to avoid disturbing them. It's believable.
You Honestly believe that Cruncher had his stream open to ask Idra for gamez? Give me some of what your smoking please LOL Im sorry but that's just silly. The mods make alot of assumtions towards to "vidictive" actions of Idra and then take the word of a different gamer that actions they took were solely to "snipe" Greg. Can we prove he cheated, No, HOWEVER it has been openly and publically admitted by professional players (SotG had a segment, Voiced By a TL member named Nony...) that they know people are stream ghosting them. Or at the very least know how to Ghost another persons stream, maybe he has 2 monitors and just didn't minimize it and realized after the game started and just was busy playing. Or maybe its EXACTLY what Cruncher says.
On May 08 2011 08:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
It's standard procedure to leave the stream open when sniping its player. When the game is over, simply remove mute and listen to the commentary. If the stream is closed, the initial advertisement is very likely to destroy the chance to hear the full commentary.
I'm in no way saying Tyler Ghosts or snipes for that matter, but why are we taking a persons word that they didn't cheat... Would you admit to cheating if someone asked you and had no proof when theres no real reprocusion or way to prove it? Show me someone who says Yes 100% of the time and I'll show you a liar. With the additional bit of a grudge between the two players why wouldn't it be reasonable to atleast assume that the good intentions portayed by TL moderation staff is not the whole truth either.
Did Greg know that some hate Pm's would reach Chill, obviously, however admited by hot_bid there were not all hate.
On May 08 2011 08:06 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:05 Harem wrote:On May 08 2011 08:02 ViperaViRuS wrote:
Out of curiosity, how many PMs did Chill actually receive before the decision was made upon to temporarily ban for 90 days? In 20 hours, he received 178 PMs. Yeah he received a lot but there were quite a few positive ones I think, was like unwrapping presents and not knowing if it was an N64 or pile of dung.
And that there are infact rational people that watch Idra as well, you continue to choose to focus on the shit and bile of the vocal minority. Their PM hate mail shouldn't be piled onto Gregs ban to this degree. Is harassment via PM or forum threads acceptable, no obviously not but considering you were given many rational responses from veiwers of both players and don't want to investigate, which we know you have the ability to do through the TSL information released to us and JTV vods, it seems unreasonable and EXTREMELY biased in this circumstance to not take any action against Cruncher for insighting this entire situation by furthur pursuing a grudge that fractures the community on a whole by acting in a manner unbefiting of a "pro player on TL".
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I gotta ask tho...
Chill how much PM's you got? o.0
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well snap drama drama.
Though I must argue that Idra might be betting for all of this to happen so he gains a more anti liquid image all things considered.
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On May 08 2011 09:57 Jakkerr wrote:
Why are we caring so much about this?
I still have no idea. IdrA has his share of fans obviously, but he already gets such preferential treatment, if it was anyone else he would have been permabanned ages ago. You can't help some people.
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So I think this will be my last post on TL. I understand it's their house, their rules, and I've decided I'm going to part ways here.
Recently, I brought a post to the attention of the mods, and though the mod said he thought it "SHOULD" be bannable, felt he shouldn't really do anything seeing as how the post mentioned Idra and so the post only gets a mod edit.
Of course, the post called Idra a weak minded little bitch. Oh sorry, he said "B" instead of spelled out bitch. ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9123208 ). If the moderation was truly for the betterment of these forums, I feel that the rules should be enforced even if there might be negative backlash, as obviously TL agrees when it comes to enforcing actions against Idra.
This is just the easiest and quickest example to share of reasons I feel I will stop posting here ( not a big loss as you can see from my post number ). I hope the people who remain continue to enjoy their experience, and bid you all adieu.
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On May 08 2011 10:03 Jakkerr wrote:
I gotta ask tho...
Chill how much PM's you got? o.0
Ive been wondering this for many pages now but didn't want to ask it:D
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Hyrule18969 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:04 Philip Jay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 10:03 Jakkerr wrote:
I gotta ask tho...
Chill how much PM's you got? o.0 Ive been wondering this for many pages now but didn't want to ask it:D
178
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Good. I dont know how you people can be a fan of him, with all the bad manners he displays.
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On May 08 2011 09:59 eMazing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:57 Serpico wrote:On May 08 2011 09:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 08 2011 09:52 Dandel Ion wrote:Whoa whoa, I just had a Flash of Genius! CrunCher can't be proven to have streamcheated. But neither can IdrA be proven to intend to harrass Chill with that statement. No evidence. Sick how my mind works, huh? yes he can, he posted it on his twitter dude nice attempt at being clever, but idra was wrong regardless of whether he wants to admit it or not How is that proof when you have to make assumptions and interpretations? Nothing was explicit. So when IdrA said that his actions where justified that doesn't mean anything either right?
No it doesn't. Idra pretty much hates Cruncher so in his eyes his insults are justified. So what? He's an angry dude you should take everything he says with a grain of salt. IMO I don't see anything Idra recently did to warrent a 90 day ban, but from his history? Sure he has had plenty of bannable posts on TL.
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On May 08 2011 10:05 Drunken Master wrote:
Good. I dont know how you people can be a fan of him, with all the bad manners he displays.
Gotta admit, the guy is good at what he does.
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While I think Idra is a great player, but i'm starting to be less of a fan of him for stuff like this. Together with his "I should win because I played for a longer time".
I'm not a huge fan boy of Cruncher (mainly because I like Terran and Zerg more, sorry Cruncher), trying to snipe people I can understand that it could be fun, but doing stuff like this that you know can turn into mega drama is uncool.
If Cruncher really wants to play Idra, i'm sure he could do it some other way like call out for a duel. Though I guess Idra would decline. Hmmm maybe someone should stage a Pay Per View match. 
On May 08 2011 06:51 diverzee wrote:
Ridiculous way of enforcing something bad just out of spite. This is not national law, it's just a forum. Would be way better to actually think of the fans and at least stick to the original 2 days.
This is a forum indeed. And TL.net can make the rules the way they want on it. Including warning, temp banning, banning people.
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EPT
