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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 09:38 johanngrunt wrote:THANK YOU SIR!!!! (violation of a TL commandment, i know) This should definitely be added to the OP, thanks again. Needed that info as I was confused about whether the 2 day ban was for a comment on idra's stream or on TL.
You're welcome.
I was amazed at the things Idra/Cruncher/Nazgul/Chill supposed have said but actually didn't. So many people hearing this, having unreliable sources or lying on purpose (who knows?). Thought, it might clear things up. The discussion here is bad enough as it is.
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On May 08 2011 09:34 SkelA wrote:
Yes he clearly didnt deserve this 90 days temp ban.....
Instead should get a permaban already. Cant believe the nerve from the "fans" of Idra. If this was anyone else and if Idra didnt get such a favored treatment from TL he would get 5 permabans till now with all the shit hes been pulling out on TL.
Yes get your heads of your asses and stop being such a dicks to Chill and the other TL moderators because they tolerated Idra so far but enough is enough.
Just because there are those that don't agree with how the situation was handled doesn't make use Idra "fans".
Not everyone in this thread are attacking Chill or the moderators. If you took some time to read through them, you'd see that there are people that can disagree with the situation, or parts of the situation, and not be Idra fan boys.
In fact, I'd say that I (and others I have read) have more concern over this situation and how it will set precedents for the future of professionals interacting on the TL.net forums and the implications that this and other events will have for the future of TL.net in the community as a whole.
Currently, TL is THE place to go and I, along with many others like it this way and would like for it to stay this way. Team Liquid is the place that if you were a media member NOT in the eSports world, this is where you would come for SC2 news. This is the Team Liquid sandbox, one that we all play in, but the sandbox has grown exponentially in the past year and this brings new conflicts which will require new ways of thinking to deal with in the correct manner.
I think that this conflict between Idra and Cruncher (that has now evolved into Idra vs Chill/TL apparently) is a perfect example. It is something that WILL come up again in the future (if not between these two, between two other heated competitors) and if TL handles it in the same fashion I think that would be a travesty.
EDIT: I would like to say that in my 2 cents that this all started as issues between two players (Idra and Cruncher) that Chill/TL then stepped into the middle of as the fight was occurring in their playground. In doing so, they made judgement and thus can be seen to be biased by those that do not agree with their judgement. I think they should of 2-day banned them both. Idra for responding inappropriately to Cruncher, Cruncher for provoking Idra. If we are going to ban people for making insults like 12 year olds, treat the whole situation like a middle school fight. Doesn't matter who started it, their both wrong for different reasons.
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Getting pretty sick of IdrA and his behavior in general, all his whine, dissing of other players just overall BM is giving me a hard time taking him seriously. And to the guy who said that IdrA isn't the drama queen of SC2, you're wrong.
Ban well earned
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On May 08 2011 09:39 Dental Floss wrote:Teamliquid should leave people alone in their own personal community threads. If Idra wants to vent about cruncher in his own fanclub thread let him. Its his thread where he interacts with his fans. If he posted that in the cruncher fanclub then punish him. The funniest part is that if you look at what Idra posted in context he was telling people to leave cruncher alone after they started cyber-stalking him to prove he was stream-watching. Idra tells people to not harass cruncher but to just ignore him and people post this: Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:34 SkelA wrote:
Instead should get a permaban already. Cant believe the nerve from the "fans" of Idra. If this was anyone else and if Idra didnt get such a favored treatment from TL he would get 5 permabans till now with all the shit hes been pulling out on TL.
So TeamLiquid shouldn't moderate a section of their site? Come on now, you know thats not going to end well. Idra has a JTV channel people can talk on.
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Just an idea here to address what can be done if there isn't enough evidence to prove someone actually watched someone's stream while in the game.
It's obvious cruncher watched idra's stream to queue up against him, he even admitted that. I agree that is not a big issue. However, it's impossible to prove that cruncher was listening and/or watching idra's stream while the game was going on. Yes cruncher provided a screenshot of idra's stream being muted. But what if he somehow unmuted during the game? What if cruncher has a laptop sitting next to him? What if cruncher has dual monitors?
Too many variables and possibilities would make it impossible to find sufficient evidence to show cruncher did in fact stream hack while the game was going on.
Possible solution? Establish a presumption that if a particular player is watching another player's stream to "snipe" them, they will be considered stream cheating. This will be a rebuttable presumption. The accused will then have the burden of proving (by some standard TL wants to create) that he did NOT watch the victim's stream to cheat in game; he just did so to match up against them.
Just my thoughts.
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Posters on Teamliquid are 100% the most thin-skinned of any community I've ever seen. The moderation team should stop being the manner-police and start taking on the trash re: whitenoise posting. I'd rather read 1 person calling me a "waste of life" then 1000 posts made by people who haven't read a thread and are posting the same (polite) garbage over and over.
Pro-gamer grudges are good for esports. Whiney babies who can't stand to read a single mild insult need to grow up.
User was warned for this post
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While I do feel the initial ban was taken perhaps a little harsh, I understand the ban. And the 2nd ban well Idra just provoked it.
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On May 08 2011 09:37 elmizzt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:37 Philip Jay wrote:
What happens when more people now start bothering the staff because of this? Will Idra get extra months? No, because he had nothing to do with that. Think please...
Well sorry but its not like he really forced people to harras the staff. Just if it upsets anyone, they could pm Chill.
Its not like we ever say to our subordinates like, hey, if you dont like it, take it up with the boss and then everyone actually goes to the boss.
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Wow, looking at that list of bans it seems you guys have had a double standard for Idra for awhile...
Idra Pros:
He's a great player
He has a huge following
He is very famous
Idra Cons:
His atttitude
I dont even think I could ban him just from the amount of people he can bring to a place.. but then again his posts are usually not great. He is an angry man.
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On May 08 2011 09:43 Bayyne wrote:
Just an idea here to address what can be done if there isn't enough evidence to prove someone actually watched someone's stream while in the game.
It's obvious cruncher watched idra's stream to queue up against him, he even admitted that. I agree that is not a big issue. However, it's impossible to prove that cruncher was listening and/or watching idra's stream while the game was going on. Yes cruncher provided a screenshot of idra's stream being muted. But what if he somehow unmuted during the game? What if cruncher has a laptop sitting next to him? What if cruncher has dual monitors?
Too many variables and possibilities would make it impossible to find sufficient evidence to show cruncher did in fact stream hack while the game was going on.
Possible solution? Establish a presumption that if a particular player is watching another player's stream to "snipe" them, they will be considered stream cheating. This will be a rebuttable presumption. The accused will then have the burden of proving (by some standard TL wants to create) that he did watch the victim's stream to cheat in game, just to snipe them.
Just my thoughts.
There is nothing wrong with sniping though. Many people do it. To punish people for something that there isn't bad would be ridiculous.
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On May 08 2011 09:39 Dental Floss wrote:Teamliquid should leave people alone in their own personal community threads. If Idra wants to vent about cruncher in his own fanclub thread let him. Its his thread where he interacts with his fans. If he posted that in the cruncher fanclub then punish him. The funniest part is that if you look at what Idra posted in context he was telling people to leave cruncher alone after they started cyber-stalking him to prove he was stream-watching. Idra tells people to not harass cruncher but to just ignore him and people post this: Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:34 SkelA wrote:
Instead should get a permaban already. Cant believe the nerve from the "fans" of Idra. If this was anyone else and if Idra didnt get such a favored treatment from TL he would get 5 permabans till now with all the shit hes been pulling out on TL.
i was originally thinking TL house = TL rules. fair enough.
however, to be serious...i dont know. his quote wreaked of venting. but surely he should be allowed to vent in his own fanclub thread? In my opinion, he didn't deserve the ban initially. the actions aftewards were sorta low by him.
i understand both points of view but man...that seem very light. of course i have been temp banned for much less. it doesnt' seem fair at times to me but like i said its TL forum. they can do whatever they want.
ultimately i dont think it really mattesr and idra will keep being the nerdy bad boy that he is because quite frankly he is the most popular/identifiable player on foriegn scene and perseonally i wouldn't follow esports as closely if it wasn't for him.
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On May 08 2011 09:43 Wiseman wrote:
I think that this conflict between Idra and Cruncher (that has now evolved into Idra vs Chill/TL apparently) is a perfect example. It is something that WILL come up again in the future (if not between these two, between two other heated competitors) and if TL handles it in the same fashion I think that would be a travesty.
That's funny, because I think if TL didn't handle these occurences with such dignity and level-headed impartiality, THAT would be the real travesty.
On May 08 2011 09:45 Philip Jay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:37 elmizzt wrote:On May 08 2011 09:37 Philip Jay wrote:
What happens when more people now start bothering the staff because of this? Will Idra get extra months? No, because he had nothing to do with that. Think please... Well sorry but its not like he really forced people to harras the staff. Just if it upsets anyone, they could pm Chill. Its not like we ever say to our subordinates like, hey, if you dont like it, take it up with the boss and then everyone actually goes to the boss.
Please read threads before you post in them, because that issue has been responded to and discussed many times already 
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On May 08 2011 09:45 Philip Jay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:37 elmizzt wrote:On May 08 2011 09:37 Philip Jay wrote:
What happens when more people now start bothering the staff because of this? Will Idra get extra months? No, because he had nothing to do with that. Think please... Well sorry but its not like he really forced people to harras the staff. Just if it upsets anyone, they could pm Chill. Its not like we ever say to our subordinates like, hey, if you dont like it, take it up with the boss and then everyone actually goes to the boss.
He encouraged the harass though. That is bad enough. Also he made it seem like he wouldn't be able to stream because of Chill, rather than because he is acting like a Child.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2011 09:44 Dental Floss wrote:
Posters on Teamliquid are 100% the most thin-skinned of any community I've ever seen. The moderation team should stop being the manner-police and start taking on the trash re: whitenoise posting. I'd rather read 1 person calling me a "waste of life" then 1000 posts made by people who haven't read a thread and are posting the same (polite) garbage over and over.
Pro-gamer grudges are good for esports. Whiney babies who can't stand to read a single mild insult need to grow up.
this post is unbelievably ironic
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Damn. It needed to be done. Honestly though, he doesn't care. His fans will care a lot more then he actually will, lol. I hope they don't make a huge deal out of it like I'm expecting. I'm a huge IdrA fan too, but I really hate reading daily drama posts on reddit/tl from butt-hurt fans trying to look out for their hero.
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IdrA...whata hero, whata champion...what a good player for the community...i mean this thread was just made and its already 43 pages in...hehe...god IdrA is fucking awsome
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On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 06:54 Thermia wrote:I'm not sure it's the best policy to ban people for things they do off the site, but I guess it's *somewhat* justified since the mods asked if he regretted saying things/won't change his behavior. Although, let's be real here, I don't think anyone at all expected a different answer to those questions. It seems like Idra has a history of making insulting posts, being temp banned (sometimes with a snide or possibly rude comment from the mod doing it), and then Idra insulting said mod when he is back. It just creates a cycle that Idra doesn't care to break, and TL cannot break because it would compromise their forum standards  TL has a history of banning people for things they do off the site. Combat-Ex was banned for harassing Incontrol on SC2. 4 people were banned for leaving someone stranded at a lan.
This is the main reason I found TL and have never left and don't plan to, it's rare that a site and its staff care this much about its members on and off the web site and honestly its great that people care about harassing people at all on a site. I've been on a ton of sites that let these things slide and am very proud to be apart of the TL community. Nothing like gm people sharing a great interest like SC Also I'm pretty glad about them banning Idra for a bit over this, his constant back lashing at people and saying how terrible others are was bad enough to warrant it imo.
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On May 08 2011 09:43 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 09:39 Dental Floss wrote:Teamliquid should leave people alone in their own personal community threads. If Idra wants to vent about cruncher in his own fanclub thread let him. Its his thread where he interacts with his fans. If he posted that in the cruncher fanclub then punish him. The funniest part is that if you look at what Idra posted in context he was telling people to leave cruncher alone after they started cyber-stalking him to prove he was stream-watching. Idra tells people to not harass cruncher but to just ignore him and people post this: On May 08 2011 09:34 SkelA wrote:
Instead should get a permaban already. Cant believe the nerve from the "fans" of Idra. If this was anyone else and if Idra didnt get such a favored treatment from TL he would get 5 permabans till now with all the shit hes been pulling out on TL. So TeamLiquid shouldn't moderate a section of their site? Come on now, you know thats not going to end well. Idra has a JTV channel people can talk on.
Uh.. Streams?
Who watches idra streams -> his fans. Can idra BM there? -> yes.
Who goes into idras personal stream thread -> his fans. Can idra BM there? -> No.
It doesn't make sense. If TL really cared they would have to refuse to host the stream at all.
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On May 08 2011 09:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2011 09:44 Dental Floss wrote:
Posters on Teamliquid are 100% the most thin-skinned of any community I've ever seen. The moderation team should stop being the manner-police and start taking on the trash re: whitenoise posting. I'd rather read 1 person calling me a "waste of life" then 1000 posts made by people who haven't read a thread and are posting the same (polite) garbage over and over.
Pro-gamer grudges are good for esports. Whiney babies who can't stand to read a single mild insult need to grow up. this post is unbelievably ironic
idno, it seems to get a semi-decent point across.
ps. Double Irony
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and cos of his ban we dont watch his stream, so hes kinda taking it out on us in the end lol
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EPT
