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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 07:26 Craton wrote:Given how long Idra has had a blatant disregard for TL standards and civility, I don't understand why he isn't on the verge of being permanently banned. Having your stream listed, especially as a featured stream, is something that should be a privilege, not a right because of having some success in tournaments. Given the way JTV works with profit sharing commercials, having his stream listed directly results in more money for Idra. TL having him featured only further increases that direct profit. If he wants that extra money, he should behave like any other person. He does not deserve to have his stream listed. Show nested quote +Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. Saying this feels entirely disingenuous. I have a hard time imaging that every pro stream is listed on TL when streams are usually (always?) added and controlled by the person streaming. While there is now the option of having TL automatically detect stream status, that's a relatively recent addition and does not preclude the creation of a TL account and the addition of the stream. I'm sure there have been cases where people have had their streams added by TL, rather than the actual user, but these cases seem more appropriate to those who speak little to no English, e.g. Korean pros. Moreover, when did the stream listing shift to a "comprehensive and complete listing" of progamers? I don't follow all the announcements, but I've never heard of that policy before. I always understood it to just be a listing of streams for like-minded people to find entertainment. If anyone else acted like Idra, they'd have been perm'd long ago and most assuredly not allowed to continue streaming, featured or otherwise. I don't see why TL continues to give him additional chances.
I'm quoting this because it doesn't seem many people saw it and I thought it was a pretty baller post. I also couldn't find a mod response to this and was curious as to whether it does feel a little disingenuous that they are keeping Idra's stream up even though he is getting extra revenue from it and the same courtesy isn't necessarily extended to all pros (it might be, I'm just asking).
But what I really wanted to say was that I am kind of surprised by the amount of people that don't care about TeamLiquid.net rules. I am not going to sit here and pretend that I read all of them, but clearly the mods have, and that is all that is important. Forums are not places for "Freedom of Speech". They have specified rules that you must follow if you are to post. It is common sense. It is the equivalent of someone having private property and you getting angry that they do not allow you to put up your own sign on their yard. It is not even remotely a reasonable request.
I will also say that I have been a part of other forums where mods will just ban people for the fun of it. It can be annoying, even frustrating, but it is their place, and TL has been remarkably consistent and fair in their dealings with the community. Sure, sometimes mods will have greater privileges in being rude, but again, it is their place. They spend their own time to run this place (which by the way isn't free), and then other people come in and think that they have equal rights just because everyone has a common interest? That is a ludicrous notion.
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On May 09 2011 12:45 Asparagus wrote:someone shoop his pupils?
no that's actually what they looked like in his NASL interview haha
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Russian Federation114 Posts
On May 09 2011 12:32 dsperg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:24 Asparagus wrote:On May 09 2011 12:20 dsperg wrote:On May 09 2011 11:07 Shai wrote:On May 09 2011 10:08 dsperg wrote:
When someone publicly streams their games, they open themselves up to this kind of "cheating".
If you don't like it, don't stream.
Case closed. When someone publicly walks around with their ID and wallet, they open themselves up to this kind of "mugging." If you don't like it, don't walk around. Case closed. (Sarcasm intended to point out horrible, horrible logic; victims are allowed to be upset about offences against them) lol what? these situations are not analogous at all. mugging somebody is ILLEGAL. stream-cheating is not. it's not whether it's illegal or not. he's pointing the flaw in your logic that "if you do X you're opening yourself up to Y, so if you don't like Y, don't do X" It's not a "flaw" at all. It's actually completely logical. Whether this justification makes the act morally just is completely different and is honestly subjective, which seems to be why people are so divided on this.
Oh come on, it is just like saying that women are responsible for being raped because of the way they dress. This is just wrong.
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On May 09 2011 12:48 dsperg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:45 Asparagus wrote:On May 09 2011 12:33 Whole wrote:nazgul, you better watch out ![[image loading]](http://i51.tinypic.com/2l96t6a.png) someone shoop his pupils? no that's actually what they looked like in his NASL interview haha
yep it looked SO CUTE! hahahaha
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I just don't get it.... like this entire situation is the most childish school yard bullying I have ever seen, from both sides of the argument.
Cruncher cheats.
Idra rages.
Chill bans Idra for 2 days.
Idra rages.
TL bans Idra for 90 days.
That SHOULD be the end of the story.
Instead both parties go on a smear campaign to prove to the masses that they were in fact correct in the decisions they made. Idra takes it out on the community by refusing to stream and TL makes this 127% irrelevant post outlining how "just" they are in their punishments.
The problem is, both Team Liquid and Idra are way more popular and influential to the foreign esports scene than they should be, and they know it.
What we are witnessing now is a pissing match between two giants in the business, while each tries to prove that they can live without the other. Idra is going to be Idra, and that's fine, he is honestly allowed to tell his Twitter users whatever the hell he wants and if TL believes thats grounds for expulsion by all means.
TL's correct response would have been to ban him, ban the whiners, and walk away. And guess what, in about 2 days it's all over. Instead they craft this little nugget of excellence and assume the role of the most popular 16 year old girl in high school, reminding all the other kids in math class that Idra is a whore, and that's why they don't hang out with her, and you shouldn't either.
What's the old addage.... the winner of an argument is the one with the loudest megaphone. This thread is TL's megaphone, a megaphone they never needed in the first place.
I feel like this post inexplicably will be walking dangerously close to the temp ban line..... fingers crossed.
User was temp banned for this post for martyring.
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Its pretty sad when TL has to post an entire thread to justify his ban to the community. It really goes against the first commandment of TL "This is our house". Its pretty obvious that his attitude is poor and a ban shouldn't really be surprising at all.
Oh well. Good ban.
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On May 09 2011 12:50 Hadraziel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:32 dsperg wrote:On May 09 2011 12:24 Asparagus wrote:On May 09 2011 12:20 dsperg wrote:On May 09 2011 11:07 Shai wrote:On May 09 2011 10:08 dsperg wrote:
When someone publicly streams their games, they open themselves up to this kind of "cheating".
If you don't like it, don't stream.
Case closed. When someone publicly walks around with their ID and wallet, they open themselves up to this kind of "mugging." If you don't like it, don't walk around. Case closed. (Sarcasm intended to point out horrible, horrible logic; victims are allowed to be upset about offences against them) lol what? these situations are not analogous at all. mugging somebody is ILLEGAL. stream-cheating is not. it's not whether it's illegal or not. he's pointing the flaw in your logic that "if you do X you're opening yourself up to Y, so if you don't like Y, don't do X" It's not a "flaw" at all. It's actually completely logical. Whether this justification makes the act morally just is completely different and is honestly subjective, which seems to be why people are so divided on this. Oh come on, it is just like saying that women are responsible for being raped because of the way they dress. This is just wrong.
so you're comparing stream-cheating with rape?
that's just wrong.
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I'm curious, how did this generate 117 pages of discussion? Did every single member of TL feel the need to make their own "contribution" via not reading the OP and making an uninformed comment?
Seriously people...
Edit: Also I should specify that I feel like this was the best decision for the staff to make. They, like always, are doing an excellent job.
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As someone with a fan base as well I personally think its highly inappropriate to call your fans to harass ANYONE, despite what they may have done.
I think its a form of abuse of power and I think looks bad on the SC community as a whole. Encouraging fans to support startcraft, tournaments, youtube channels, live streams, pro gamer facebooks/twitters is an amazing use of this power, telling them to harass someone for making a decision you dont agree with is not.
Given, I have done things that I regret and something similar may even happen in the future if I were to go on tilt over something. People always say that I'm not doing things right and that I'm the worst person in eSports so I dont have much room to talk, I just think its a shame to harass someone who has played a really large role in the StarCraft scene for many years based completely on personal reasons that really have no positive impact on the sport.
Edit: There have been some people in the community who talk crap about me, spread rumors, take stuff I say out of context, try to get me banned from live events out of personal spite, etc etc etc, and even then I dont find it appropriate to send fans to harass them.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Going to lock the thread after Husky's last comment. I believe everyone has said their piece as the discussion has become incredibly circular and off-topic, time to let this rest.
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EPT
