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Don't post in this thread to say "gay gamers are like everyone else, why do they have a special thread?" It is something that has been posted numerous times, and this isn't the place for that discussion.
For regular posters, don't quote the trolls. |
On June 26 2012 14:04 heartbourne wrote:Did anyone catch TotalBiscuit's comments on his podcast with JP? I submitted a question asking if he would be interested in reaching out to the LGBT community since there was a ruckus about him using the word f*g to insult someone and he said some pretty... questionable things. I tweeted this to him in response. Video and timestamp are in there as well: http://taint.rtgc.org/oldviewthread.php?threadid=36329I'm not too upset about it, I just think defending using that sort of pejorative language is rude at best. Dismissing LGBT charities was kind of insulting too, between AIDS, homeless, international persecution, etc, I think those sort of plights are on the same level as "starvation". What do you guys think?
I stopped liking TB when that whole thing came about. I think it's really bigoted and I don't support people like that.
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On June 26 2012 14:04 heartbourne wrote:Did anyone catch TotalBiscuit's comments on his podcast with JP? I submitted a question asking if he would be interested in reaching out to the LGBT community since there was a ruckus about him using the word f*g to insult someone and he said some pretty... questionable things. I tweeted this to him in response. Video and timestamp are in there as well: http://taint.rtgc.org/oldviewthread.php?threadid=36329I'm not too upset about it, I just think defending using that sort of pejorative language is rude at best. Dismissing LGBT charities was kind of insulting too, between AIDS, homeless, international persecution, etc, I think those sort of plights are on the same level as "starvation". What do you guys think?
Western society is in a period of transition when it comes to LGBT treatment (as human beings), much the same as people of color experienced in the 50's and 60's when they too were subjected to this kind of bullshit. I think that even though Total Biscuit is not anti-gay (imo), people should be aware that calling someone "gay" or "fag" was probably a social norm for him until recent history. And one thing we do know is that old habits die hard.
Keep in mind that this guy's self-proclaimed ego and stubborness are most likely not going to allow him to respond well to any kind of criticism about his language, so I wouldn't expect much in the way of apologies or displays of LGBT respect. Either way, he does deserve some shit for his behavior so I agree with the confrontation.
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Right, I don't think he is a bad person or has any bad intentions, but its not cool that he can't get across that he is being really disrespectful and rude, whether he agrees with it or not, and his choice to dismiss the feelings and goodwill of some fans really outweighs this rather innocent minor incident.
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Honestly, TB got off so lightly for the shit he says. Everyone kicked up a fuss over the whole orb thing, because you cant say shit about black people but gays are fine to sprout your uneducated mouth off about.
TB should have gotten the same treatment as orb
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On June 26 2012 14:04 heartbourne wrote:Did anyone catch TotalBiscuit's comments on his podcast with JP? I submitted a question asking if he would be interested in reaching out to the LGBT community since there was a ruckus about him using the word f*g to insult someone and he said some pretty... questionable things. I tweeted this to him in response. Video and timestamp are in there as well: http://taint.rtgc.org/oldviewthread.php?threadid=36329I'm not too upset about it, I just think defending using that sort of pejorative language is rude at best. Dismissing LGBT charities was kind of insulting too, between AIDS, homeless, international persecution, etc, I think those sort of plights are on the same level as "starvation". What do you guys think?
I really agree with him on some points.
Like the charity event thing ? What for ? Do LGBTs need money to survive or anything ? I don't think so, i'd rather see a charity event to help people that really need help, i know i don't need help because i'm gay and i don't see why i should.
It would be so hyprocrite and pathetic to do a charity event just to show the LGBT community that you have nothing against them.
I also kind of agree with what he says about the word itself. If you find something offensive, remember that it's YOU that find this offensive. I watched a documentary about prostitutes on the television the other night and one of them said "I consider myself as a whore, that way, if someone calls me a whore, i have no reasons to be mad, that's what i am".
I would advice you to read these lyrics from eminem : http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eminem/rainman.html
If someone wants to make you mad by calling you names and it's effectively making you mad, then you make him win.
Like what he says about "nigger". In this situation, if he had use nigger instead of faggot, it would have been a lot worst because more of people are offended by this word, but it really would have been the same.
From wikipedia :
The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger (“color black”).
I know that in France, we used (a long time ago) to use the word "Nègre" (nigger) without the slightest hint of hatred. Nowadays it's different, but that's because people took it wrong at some point.
Do you find it racist to say that someone is black if the guy really is a black person ? Would you find it racist if someone called you a white person if you're white ?
Then why should you be offended to be called a nigger if you're indeed a black person ?
And why would you be offended to be called a fag if you're indeed gay ?
By being mad about it, you're just giving more power to those that use the word to hurt you.
But all this depends on the context..
From his point of view, he called the guy a faggot like he could have used any other badword. He didn't specifically call him a faggot because he thought the guy was gay and he wanted to hurt him based on the meaning of the word faggot, he used it because the word is viewed in a pejorative sense and he wanted to insult the guy (which he had reasons to do).
To me, where what he says is bad is that he made thieves that stole money from disabled persons and gays related.
Do gays steal handicapped people ? Some of them might, like some black people might, or some white people, or asian, or ... Just not all of them, and that makes a pretty big difference.
So why would he use this specific word in that case ? Why didn't he use "immoral bastard" or something like that instead ?
I can put it on the fact that he was angry but imo, this is because of stuff like that, that "nigger" and "faggot" got their pejorative sense.
I wouldn't have been upset at all if he had chose a word that was related to the situation, instead he chose a word that has nothing to do with it, in a way that could make people confused about the term, and that's quite bad to me.
Sorry for the long post, i hope i was clear enough to be understood :p
And P.S : i still like totalbiscuit and i really don't think he's an homophobic person.
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if everyone was fine with using the word nigger it would be different, use the word fag as much as you want. There shouldnt be a double standard.
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In that same interview it's worth mentioning TB said on two or three seperate occasions that he supports LGBT members of the community. Though yes, I do disagree with his defence of calling someone 'fag' but at least he had no homophobic malice behind it.
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On June 26 2012 14:04 heartbourne wrote:Did anyone catch TotalBiscuit's comments on his podcast with JP? I submitted a question asking if he would be interested in reaching out to the LGBT community since there was a ruckus about him using the word f*g to insult someone and he said some pretty... questionable things. I tweeted this to him in response. Video and timestamp are in there as well: http://taint.rtgc.org/oldviewthread.php?threadid=36329I'm not too upset about it, I just think defending using that sort of pejorative language is rude at best. Dismissing LGBT charities was kind of insulting too, between AIDS, homeless, international persecution, etc, I think those sort of plights are on the same level as "starvation". What do you guys think?
Eh, his response is pretty much the same as everyone defending orb in that thread, pretty poor but w/e, I never liked TB and I like him even less now.
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problem i have is when TB said:
"I'm not going to apologise for calling this guy a faggot. It nicely encapsulates what he was."
I honestly dont think they guy was lgbt. If he means faggot in a derogatory way theres no excuse?
what if orb types:
"I'm not going to apologise for calling this guy a nigger. It nicely encapsulates what he was."
O.o honestly no difference. but bigots will be bigots
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 26 2012 22:42 Reignyo wrote:
problem i have is when TB said:
"I'm not going to apologise for calling this guy a faggot. It nicely encapsulates what he was."
I honestly dont think they guy was lgbt. If he means faggot in a derogatory way theres no excuse?
what if orb types:
"I'm not going to apologise for calling this guy a nigger. It nicely encapsulates what he was."
O.o honestly no difference. but bigots will be bigots
yuh, unacceptable.
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Meh. On a semi-related note, one of my favorite speedrunners is a guy named calebhart42, one of the best MMX speedrunners in the world (constantly trying for WR's in it). And he's another guy who works in a kitchen, so fag and gay were common use of vocabulary for him. One day, I just asked in chat "Caleb, any chance you could use the derogatory gay terms less?" And there was basically this entire discussion we're having now.
The real difference between calling someone a fag or gay vs. calling them a nigger and having it be appropriate is that the anti-gay terms are used in a derogatory context. Anyone who uses the n-word in a derogatory way IMMEDIATELY gets reprimanded (very few circles where it isn't), but people who use it frequently make it mean something more like brother than jackass. If you call someone or something gay or a faggot, it's ALWAYS in a negative context, and that's the entire reason I have problems with it.
On lighter news, after going through this entire discussion and him saying "I work in a kitchen, I mean, it's kind of a common vocabulary around there. Need some way to destress, ya know." to which I responded "Yeah. and I'm a gay guy who works in a kitchen. it ain't exactly the most comfortable place because of things like that" He agreed to try changing his vocabulary but made no promises due to stress and anger and such.
I haven't heard him use any derogatory words in at least 2 weeks. So I'm proud of him, at least.
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On June 21 2012 08:21 noddy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 23:29 Nyarly wrote:
Gay agenda ? never heard of that before but "LOL" and "oh, why are people so retarded sometimes ?"
More questions :
1) How do you meet new guys ? Gay bars are the easiest but i heard it's more for sex dates than really meeting someone.
2) Do you prefer effeminate boys/short haired-girl or those that looks like random boys/girls ?
3) Are you an effeminate boy or an obvious lesbian ?
4) Are you passive of active ? (do you do both?)
5) Do you like recieving hugs a lot ? And kisses ?
6) Do you want Jaedong or Jaedong in your bed ?
1) Through friends and bars pretty much. Always end up liking straight guys though. 2) Prefer guys who look like and act like mainstream guys which is probably why the above happens 3) Na, even though I'm not masculine by any means people are usually surprised when I say I'm gay 4) Passive 5) Yes, I love hugssssssssss 6) I'd prefer Bisu
bisu is hot
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AWtoM.jpg)
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To be honest, I start to get angry when straight white men complain that they can't use certain racial, homophobic, or other slurs because a certain group doesn't like it. It's very patronizing to be told that I can just not be offended and that it's just words. These words cause real pain to some people, and it's a serious lack of empathy to choose to use that word despite being told that. Why would you consciously use words that inflict emotional pain on people? I don't get it.
You can use other words that convey the same message. If you don't know any, break out a thesaurus.
There's a reason these types of words are generally avoided by public figures and why there are repercussions if a public figure uses them.
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On June 27 2012 01:17 Bortlett wrote:
To be honest, I start to get angry when straight white men complain that they can't use certain racial, homophobic, or other slurs because a certain group doesn't like it. It's very patronizing to be told that I can just not be offended and that it's just words. These words cause real pain to some people, and it's a serious lack of empathy to choose to use that word despite being told that. Why would you consciously use words that inflict emotional pain on people? I don't get it.
You can use other words that convey the same message. If you don't know any, break out a thesaurus.
There's a reason these types of words are generally avoided by public figures and why there are repercussions if a public figure uses them.
for me I don't really care if people use gay/fag in a derogatory way, like "that's so gay" or "what a fag". unless they are actually talking shit about gay people it doesn't mean anything to me, it's just a word.
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On June 27 2012 01:27 SilverWolfe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 01:17 Bortlett wrote:
To be honest, I start to get angry when straight white men complain that they can't use certain racial, homophobic, or other slurs because a certain group doesn't like it. It's very patronizing to be told that I can just not be offended and that it's just words. These words cause real pain to some people, and it's a serious lack of empathy to choose to use that word despite being told that. Why would you consciously use words that inflict emotional pain on people? I don't get it.
You can use other words that convey the same message. If you don't know any, break out a thesaurus.
There's a reason these types of words are generally avoided by public figures and why there are repercussions if a public figure uses them. for me I don't really care if people use gay/fag in a derogatory way, like "that's so gay" or "what a fag". unless they are actually talking shit about gay people it doesn't mean anything to me, it's just a word.
And that is totally fine, words affect people in different ways. But there are people who are much more hurt by this, and when you are a public figure, the chances of one or more of those people listening to what you say is much higher. People like Totalbiscuit certainly know this.
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On the Totalbiscuit thing, faggot has a different connotation in Britain from my understandin'. I know it is a general term for a cigarette over there, but I don't think it carries the same negative prejudice as it does elsewhere. I could be completely wrong though or maybe its only parts of Britain that are like this? Could any of you Brits fill us in on this?
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On June 27 2012 01:33 Troxle wrote:
On the Totalbiscuit thing, faggot has a different connotation in Britain from my understandin'. I know it is a general term for a cigarette over there, but I don't think it carries the same negative prejudice as it does elsewhere. I could be completely wrong though or maybe its only parts of Britain that are like this? Could any of you Brits fill us in on this?
Faggot is actually a meat ball. Like I could go and buy Pork Faggots from pretty much any supermarket.
+ Show Spoiler +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)
Fag is slang for cigarette which is a completely different word. Apparently (I dunno for sure) this term is based on fagging in schools, and senior students using the authority over younger students to be able to get warning before getting caught smoking. I don't know if this is true, but here's fagging in wikipedia for anyone interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging
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On June 27 2012 01:43 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 01:33 Troxle wrote:
On the Totalbiscuit thing, faggot has a different connotation in Britain from my understandin'. I know it is a general term for a cigarette over there, but I don't think it carries the same negative prejudice as it does elsewhere. I could be completely wrong though or maybe its only parts of Britain that are like this? Could any of you Brits fill us in on this? Faggot is actually a meat ball. Like I could go and buy Pork Faggots from pretty much any supermarket. + Show Spoiler +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)Fag is slang for cigarette which is a completely different word. Apparently (I dunno for sure) this term is based on fagging in schools, and senior students using the authority over younger students to be able to get warning before getting caught smoking. I don't know if this is true, but here's fagging in wikipedia for anyone interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging
I've heard that the reason people call gays fags is because they used to burn homosexuals as timber. Then people would use 'fag' to mean cigarette. Is that true?
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On June 27 2012 01:54 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 01:43 Iyerbeth wrote:On June 27 2012 01:33 Troxle wrote:
On the Totalbiscuit thing, faggot has a different connotation in Britain from my understandin'. I know it is a general term for a cigarette over there, but I don't think it carries the same negative prejudice as it does elsewhere. I could be completely wrong though or maybe its only parts of Britain that are like this? Could any of you Brits fill us in on this? Faggot is actually a meat ball. Like I could go and buy Pork Faggots from pretty much any supermarket. + Show Spoiler +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)Fag is slang for cigarette which is a completely different word. Apparently (I dunno for sure) this term is based on fagging in schools, and senior students using the authority over younger students to be able to get warning before getting caught smoking. I don't know if this is true, but here's fagging in wikipedia for anyone interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging I've heard that the reason people call gays fags is because they used to burn homosexuals as timber. Then people would use 'fag' to mean cigarette. Is that true?
I think that's unlikely. Firstly because fag has no connection to gay at all in the UK so it seems odd there should be a connection at all. The term in old English does mean something like bundles of sticks/twigs, but I don't think homosexuality was ever punished with burning* so I'd be surprised if that were the cause.
Edit: *in England.
Second edit: Not related to the above, but I've also literally never heard anyone use the word fag to mean gay offline. That's not to say there aren't a whole host of other words used though unfortunately.
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Hmm I don't know if my experience is atypical, or it's just different because of being from a slightly later generation than TB or a different geographical area or I've just had more international exposure via the internet or whatever, but while fag means cigarette I would still say faggot is mostly used as a derogatory word for homosexuals from my experience (of the U.K.). I don't really agree with those who say faggot has lost it's connection with homosexuals though - even well the person using it doesn't mean to imply homosexual = bad it's still used that way significantly enough that it hasn't lost that connection in my mind.
I certainly don't think TB should have to do a charity event for LGBT people to "make up for it" but I have to agree his reasoning/apology wasn't very good in my mind (as others have said, replace nigger for faggot and most people would not find it acceptable).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://blog.ohinternet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2220459531_b4e528d6f2.jpg)
