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Balance Update - May 19, 2020

Forum Index > SC2 General
189 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
ssg
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1777 Posts
May 20 2020 03:30 GMT
#1
https://starcraft2.com/en-us/news/23429406

New thoughts and changes. A little More at link:

Let’s go over a few key changes and whether we’ll be keeping them as is or making alterations.

Queens

Previously Proposed Change:

Anti-air weapon range decreased from 8 to 7.
After watching tournament games, we don’t have strong concerns surrounding this change, and we don’t have strong reason to believe that it would drastically impact ZvT more than ZvP. Our initial concerns surrounding the Battlecruiser vs. Queen interaction were assuaged as while there were very few Battlecruiser openings from Terrans in the tournament, they were all defended about as soundly as before. In addition, we’ve received feedback that the Queen range change is more impactful versus Banshees and Liberators than versus Battlecruisers. On the Protoss side, Oracles escaped from Queens with 1HP remaining on multiple occasions.

Creep Tumors

Previously Proposed Changes:

“Armored” attribute removed.
“Light” attribute added.
While we were initially skeptical of how this change would impact ZvT relative to ZvP, we feel comfortable going forward with the change after reviewing the tournament games. Very few additional Tumors were killed by Hellions as a result of the change, which we believe is because Hellions fall off pretty quickly in a typical bio-based ZvT, and top-level Zerg players have gotten pretty good at protecting Creep Tumors in early game. Meanwhile, we saw multiple instances of attempted Tumor assassinations from Protoss players that wouldn’t have occurred in the past.

Baneling

Previously Proposed Changes:

Centrifugal Hooks no longer grants Banelings +5 HP.
Centrifugal Hooks cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
We agree with feedback that the previously proposed Baneling changes would impact ZvT greater than ZvP and, as such, we won’t be moving forward with these changes. However, we still want to make some adjustment to Banelings for ZvP. When we asked for further feedback about the difficulty of late game PvZ, the responses generally did not involve specific unit interactions in late game (apart from Feedback vs. Abduct). Rather, many responses focused on the generally favorable positions Zerg players could enter late game with. Notable examples included unfettered creep spread, high drone counts, and the ease of defending pushes. As Banelings are generally the core unit Zerg players use to defend pre-Hive Protoss timings, we believe targeting the combat effectiveness of Banelings would force Zerg players to transition to late game less greedily.

New Change:

Baneling weapon damage changed from 20 (+15 vs light) to 18 (+17 vs light).
This new change should impact PvZ more so than TvZ as a much greater proportion of the typical mid game Protoss army is non-light compared to the typical mid game Terran bio army. After this change, smaller non-light units such as Marauders, Roaches, Stalkers, and Siege Tanks will generally take one additional hit from Banelings while beefier units such as Thor, Archons, and Immortals will generally take more.

Oracles

Previously Proposed Changes:

Revelation energy cost decreased from 50 to 25.
Revelation cooldown increased from 2 seconds to 10 seconds.
Revelation duration decreased from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
Of all the proposed changes, we were most pleasantly surprised by how much this was utilized with almost every Protoss player employing it to some degree of effectiveness in PvZ. We were also surprised by the uptick in mid game usage simply to check up on opponents’ armies and are excited to see how future Oracle usage will evolve.

Battery Overcharge

Previously Proposed Changes:

New ability: “Battery Overcharge”
Effect: Overcharges a target Shield Battery, increasing its shield restoration rate by 100% and causing it to regenerate 100 energy over 21 seconds.
Cost: 75 Energy
Cooldown: 0 seconds
Range: 8
New Changes:

New ability: “Battery Overcharge”
Effect: Overcharges a target Shield Battery near a Nexus, increasing its shield restoration rate by 100% and allowing it to restore shields without consuming energy for 14 seconds.
Cost: 50 Energy
Cooldown: 60 seconds (shared by all Nexuses)
Range: Unlimited (the target Battery must be within range 8 of any friendly Nexus)
Our initial iteration of Battery Overcharge had some usability concerns stemming from the fact that Nexuses could only Overcharge Batteries adjacent to themselves, but not other Nexuses globally. The initial restriction was put in place due to a concern of the ability being too powerful in late game when all your Nexuses could be used to Overcharge a single large cluster of Shield Batteries. However, we realize the awkwardness of this implementation and ideally would not want to drastically alter how players utilize Chrono Boost. Therefore, we’ll be removing this restriction and instead address our concerns by placing a global cooldown on the ability a la Strategic Recall.

Next, while we’ve received feedback that the ability is effective at encouraging macro play past three bases (as evidenced by the large number of 4+ base PvPs in the BTM tournament), we believe it’s not effective enough at defending against proxy Immortal builds for two reasons. First, the ability would not be ready for the initial standard 4-Stalker 1-Immortal poke at its typical timing. Additionally, we believe there’s still a bit too much energy tension on your two initial Nexuses as we expect both Chrono Boost and Battery Overcharge usage to be key in defending Proxy Robotics builds. While the changes described in the last paragraph partially alleviate our concerns, we’d like to go even further by reducing the energy cost of the ability, which we feel comfortable with due to the ability’s newly introduced global cooldown.

Finally, we’d like to address another oddity with the ability. In the previous iteration, players were encouraged to Overcharge Batteries with near-full energy to receive the greatest benefits. We felt this could induce decision paralysis on the part of the player and promote somewhat undesirable behaviors, such as turning Batteries on and off autocast. In order to address this, we’ve redesigned the ability to be agnostic of the current energy of the targeted Battery and reduced its duration to maintain a somewhat similar power level with slightly different strengths and weaknesses.

Conclusion

By the time this blog goes up, these changes will have been updated on the Balance Test Mod for players to practice on. Barring bug fixes, these will be the final changes reflected in the next balance patch, which is currently scheduled to be released in early June, after the finals of a few major tournaments.

Full list

TERRAN
Widow Mine

Drilling Claws upgrade no longer grants Widow Mines invisibility. Instead, the existence of an Armory will grant Widow Mines invisibility.
The red laser attachment for Widow Mines will now communicate the existence of an Armory instead of the existence of the Drilling Claws upgrade.
ZERG
Queen

Anti-air weapon range decreased from 8 to 7.
Baneling

Weapon damage changed from 20 (+15 vs light) to 18 (+17 vs light).
Infestor

Microbial Shroud no longer requires an upgrade.
Creep Tumor

“Armored” attribute removed.
“Light” attribute added.
PROTOSS
Nexus

New ability: “Battery Overcharge”
Effect: Overcharges a target Shield Battery near a Nexus, increasing its shield restoration rate by 100% and allowing it to restore shields without consuming energy for 14 seconds.
Cost: 50 Energy
Cooldown: 60 seconds (shared by all Nexuses)
Range: Unlimited (the target Battery must be within range 8 of any friendly Nexus)
Oracle

Revelation energy cost decreased from 50 to 25.
Revelation cooldown increased from 2 seconds to 10 seconds.
Revelation duration decreased from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
High Templar

Feedback range increased from 9 to 10

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pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 03:37:10
May 20 2020 03:36 GMT
#2
Good changes all around. Battery overcharge sounds pretty strong for earlygame defense in PvT and PvZ though, probably worth keeping an eye on. Though maybe that's what they had in mind with the WM changes and so forth.

Stolen from reddit:

- Normal battery: restore 300 shields over 6 seconds

- Initial version in test map: restore 300 shields over 3 seconds, then another 300 shields over 21 seconds

- New proposal: restore 1400 shields over 14 seconds, reduce cost to 50 nexus energy, make available from any nexus, all without using any battery energy (allowing battery to restore another 300 shields over 6 seconds)
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
BonitiilloO
Profile Joined June 2013
Dominican Republic627 Posts
May 20 2020 03:52 GMT
#3
i like the changes made, SC2 is hopefully becoming a BW alike in term of no more balance near soon, is good to me.
How may help u?
agripsss
Profile Joined June 2018
37 Posts
May 20 2020 04:13 GMT
#4
Its gonna hurt.
-Kyo-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan1926 Posts
May 20 2020 04:16 GMT
#5
I feel like these changes might shift the meta quite a bit, but after being away from them for a month I actually feel like they're really not going to change the game that much. One of the few things I do agree with noregret on is that bigger changes would be much more interesting. It's just too bad the game doesn't have the same dev team available to it anymore. There are so many reworks for protoss that would make the game dynamics so much more interesting, and have been talked about since before HotS, but were just never chased.

at least give us voice packs for units to bw sounds pls thx
Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/
TL+ Member
fastr
Profile Joined February 2011
France902 Posts
May 20 2020 04:35 GMT
#6
I'm delighted they scraped the HP nerf for banelings and went into a damage nerf instead since this is exactly what I was advocating for. My proposal was to nerf the damage bonus from 2 to 1 for each melee upgrade so that 1: +2 banelings couldn't one shot probe anymore and 2: banelings would generally scale a bit worse in mid to late game. This change makes more sense as it nerfs baneling's role as a core unit and specialize it more against light-based compositions. Expect very marauder heavy comp in late game tvz!

The battery overcharge seems incredibly strong in the early game now. I get that PvP needs drastic change to improve, but 1400 shields regen for 50 nexus energy, really?? I sincerely hope this doesn't turn into the new HotS nexus overcharge, which killed basically every aggressive TvP opening for the first 6 minutes or so of the game.

I'm also not a fan of the widow mine change. This combined with the new battery overcharge could make widow mine drop the new de facto standard tvp opening, which it kind or already is. I hope this doesn't kill the decent opening variety we see in TvP at the moment.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 04:51:34
May 20 2020 04:42 GMT
#7
On May 20 2020 13:35 fastr wrote:
I'm delighted they scraped the HP nerf for banelings and went into a damage nerf instead since this is exactly what I was advocating for. My proposal was to nerf the damage bonus from 2 to 1 for each melee upgrade so that 1: +2 banelings couldn't one shot probe anymore and 2: banelings would generally scale a bit worse in mid to late game. This change makes more sense as it nerfs baneling's role as a core unit and specialize it more against light-based compositions. Expect very marauder heavy comp in late game tvz!

The battery overcharge seems incredibly strong in the early game now. I get that PvP needs drastic change to improve, but 1400 shields regen for 50 nexus energy, really?? I sincerely hope this doesn't turn into the new HotS nexus overcharge, which killed basically every aggressive TvP opening for the first 6 minutes or so of the game.

I'm also not a fan of the widow mine change. This combined with the new battery overcharge could make widow mine drop the new de facto standard tvp opening, which it kind or already is. I hope this doesn't kill the decent opening variety we see in TvP at the moment.


I've always been a fan of mass WM openers, like when Maru kept on sending in medivacs not so much for the probe kills but just forcing Protoss to defend while he macroed up behind it. With cloak I think there's some potential for Protoss missing a few here or there.

Though I think battery overcharge won't actually make a huge difference w.r.t. tank pushes. Protoss still wants to engage Terran out on the map, and if Terran does get sieged up outside a base Protoss always tries to blink on top of the tanks. Which is to say, outside battery range.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
May 20 2020 04:55 GMT
#8
40% Zerg winrate, and one in GSL Ro8 + devastating nerfs sounds like a well thought out idea not influenced by the best performing race whining whatsoever (pls don’t warn me for truthing lol)
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 05:11:45
May 20 2020 05:05 GMT
#9
Indeed. I don't think that Zerg needs to be nerfed in current balance state. I understand that Protoss needs some help maybe, but I feel like Zerg is the weakest race nowadays concidering Blizzcon changes. Transitioning into late game is pretty much hard for Z already. I don't think nerfing this race will help, it will just force Zerg into midgame or early game allins. Kill or die. And to be honest why would they go to lategame, as both lg options are so bad. Broodlords were nerfed to the ground, Infestors are pretty much useless without infested terrans, and Ultras are stupid cows as always dying from small packs of bio as usual.
Ultima Ratio Regum
XDEKSDEEXD
Profile Joined June 2013
622 Posts
May 20 2020 05:10 GMT
#10
Would have loved to see -5HP to banelings but overall not a bad update I think
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7179 Posts
May 20 2020 05:15 GMT
#11
Not giving banes the -5hp feels like a "fuck you" to every bio terran tbh.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
May 20 2020 05:35 GMT
#12
On May 20 2020 14:15 Luolis wrote:
Not giving banes the -5hp feels like a "fuck you" to every bio terran tbh.

Hence why the change didn't go through, since it was meant to focus on PvZ
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
May 20 2020 05:37 GMT
#13
On May 20 2020 14:15 Luolis wrote:
Not giving banes the -5hp feels like a "fuck you" to every bio terran tbh.

but now marauders and thors can tank banelings like a chad
this helps both high skilled players and low skilled players tho
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7179 Posts
May 20 2020 05:39 GMT
#14
On May 20 2020 14:35 Solar424 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 14:15 Luolis wrote:
Not giving banes the -5hp feels like a "fuck you" to every bio terran tbh.

Hence why the change didn't go through, since it was meant to focus on PvZ

Yep, that's the sad part :D
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
May 20 2020 05:45 GMT
#15
On May 20 2020 14:05 hiroshOne wrote:
Indeed. I don't think that Zerg needs to be nerfed in current balance state. I understand that Protoss needs some help maybe, but I feel like Zerg is the weakest race nowadays concidering Blizzcon changes. Transitioning into late game is pretty much hard for Z already. I don't think nerfing this race will help, it will just force Zerg into midgame or early game allins. Kill or die. And to be honest why would they go to lategame, as both lg options are so bad. Broodlords were nerfed to the ground, Infestors are pretty much useless without infested terrans, and Ultras are stupid cows as always dying from small packs of bio as usual.

but zerg could potentially go out of control with a less bias map pool so i think dese changes are fine bar the queen s nerf
dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 05:46:53
May 20 2020 05:46 GMT
#16
On May 20 2020 14:15 Luolis wrote:
Not giving banes the -5hp feels like a "fuck you" to every bio terran tbh.

TvZ is pretty balanced right now and Queens Nerv still gets through.
Protoss is stugeling vs Z, that s what all these changes are aming for.

All of this looks realy good to me, tbh. The shield battery change looks like even more powerfull now. The Country will most likely be to burst the overcharged batterie down every Single time...
MaxPax
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 05:55:21
May 20 2020 05:52 GMT
#17
Ro8 of GSL contains 1 Zerg, 3 Protoss, and 4 Terrans. If there's anyone who struggles right now it's Zerg. Look at Clem how he skyrockets in ZvT for example. Is it coincident? I don't think so. Clem is very good, but suddenly he smashes ppl like Reynor or even Serral. Just because how T was buffed and Zerg nerfed in blizzcon changes. Further nerfing Zerg is ballshit imo.

ZvT is Terran favored, and now ot will be even more leaning towards Terran because Liberators, Banshees and BC being stronger because of Queen nerf. Widomine buff will make bio+mine even more deadly because it will come sooner with perm cloak. Creep will be denied even easier...

In PvZ they cut all early agression Zerg could put on Protoss with this overcharge.

This patch is bad, and it will ruin thisngame for Z.
Ultima Ratio Regum
Soke
Profile Joined September 2012
United States790 Posts
May 20 2020 06:08 GMT
#18
ZvT is already slightly T favored. This is just gonna make it worse
Djsoke
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
May 20 2020 06:08 GMT
#19
On May 20 2020 14:52 hiroshOne wrote:
Ro8 of GSL contains 1 Zerg, 3 Protoss, and 4 Terrans. If there's anyone who struggles right now it's Zerg. Look at Clem how he skyrockets in ZvT for example. Is it coincident? I don't think so. Clem is very good, but suddenly he smashes ppl like Reynor or even Serral. Just because how T was buffed and Zerg nerfed in blizzcon changes. Further nerfing Zerg is ballshit imo.

ZvT is Terran favored, and now ot will be even more leaning towards Terran because Liberators, Banshees and BC being stronger because of Queen nerf. Widomine buff will make bio+mine even more deadly because it will come sooner with perm cloak. Creep will be denied even easier...

In PvZ they cut all early agression Zerg could put on Protoss with this overcharge.

This patch is bad, and it will ruin thisngame for Z.


A great thing about Blizzard explaining their reasoning for each matchup is how obvious the balance trolls become.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7179 Posts
May 20 2020 06:11 GMT
#20
On May 20 2020 15:08 Soke wrote:
ZvT is already slightly T favored. This is just gonna make it worse

What exactly makes you think this way :D
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
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