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On May 28 2020 22:34 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2020 17:47 deacon.frost wrote:On May 28 2020 06:13 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Zergs also lost infested terrans, and broodlords get outranged by thors now.
Its a huge change to late game. Terrans arent as scared to keep making Command centers and get to the late game anymore, where as before they would just *all-in* on 3 bases , maybe 4 almost every game and try to end the game before mass infesters.
IMO, bring back infested terrans, but NOT the super rocket anti air. Were IT op against ground? I dont think so. Did they fix the bug the BL can shoot from +2 distance if not a-moved but directly aiming at target? (shift clicking thors) Not sure if it's a bug and if it's in the game anymore, but if it's still in the game BL outrange Thors  It wasn't a bug and it isn't in the game anymore. The general behaviour how the broodlord actually works as a carrier is still there, but the broodling leash range has been reduced from 12 to 9. So as far as I understand it the actual broodlord range should be down to 9 (used to be 12), not 10 as the weapon stat in the game says. Thors have 11 range.
Yeah. And thanks to that - 1 Thor counters mutas if they're under 20, and few Thor's counter Broodlords. As a Zerg I wish i had opportunity to make LITERALLY one unit to counter whole playstyle hard,l. Imagine 3 corruptors countering 10 BattleCruisers.
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On May 29 2020 01:45 hiroshOne wrote:
Yeah. And thanks to that - 1 Thor counters mutas if they're under 20, and few Thor's counter Broodlords. As a Zerg I wish i had opportunity to make LITERALLY one unit to counter whole playstyle hard,l. Imagine 3 corruptors countering 10 BattleCruisers.
I couldn t imagine such a deep whine about a single little buff.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On May 28 2020 22:34 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2020 17:47 deacon.frost wrote:On May 28 2020 06:13 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Zergs also lost infested terrans, and broodlords get outranged by thors now.
Its a huge change to late game. Terrans arent as scared to keep making Command centers and get to the late game anymore, where as before they would just *all-in* on 3 bases , maybe 4 almost every game and try to end the game before mass infesters.
IMO, bring back infested terrans, but NOT the super rocket anti air. Were IT op against ground? I dont think so. Did they fix the bug the BL can shoot from +2 distance if not a-moved but directly aiming at target? (shift clicking thors) Not sure if it's a bug and if it's in the game anymore, but if it's still in the game BL outrange Thors It wasn't a bug and it isn't in the game anymore. The general behaviour how the broodlord actually works as a carrier is still there, but the broodling leash range has been reduced from 12 to 9. So as far as I understand it the actual broodlord range should be down to 9 (used to be 12), not 10 as the weapon stat in the game says. Thors have 11 range.
THanks for the update on it, I missed the patch then.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On May 29 2020 01:45 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2020 22:34 Big J wrote:On May 28 2020 17:47 deacon.frost wrote:On May 28 2020 06:13 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Zergs also lost infested terrans, and broodlords get outranged by thors now.
Its a huge change to late game. Terrans arent as scared to keep making Command centers and get to the late game anymore, where as before they would just *all-in* on 3 bases , maybe 4 almost every game and try to end the game before mass infesters.
IMO, bring back infested terrans, but NOT the super rocket anti air. Were IT op against ground? I dont think so. Did they fix the bug the BL can shoot from +2 distance if not a-moved but directly aiming at target? (shift clicking thors) Not sure if it's a bug and if it's in the game anymore, but if it's still in the game BL outrange Thors It wasn't a bug and it isn't in the game anymore. The general behaviour how the broodlord actually works as a carrier is still there, but the broodling leash range has been reduced from 12 to 9. So as far as I understand it the actual broodlord range should be down to 9 (used to be 12), not 10 as the weapon stat in the game says. Thors have 11 range. Yeah. And thanks to that - 1 Thor counters mutas if they're under 20, and few Thor's counter Broodlords. As a Zerg I wish i had opportunity to make LITERALLY one unit to counter whole playstyle hard,l. Imagine 3 corruptors countering 10 BattleCruisers.
Maybe one day Blizzard changes mutalisks, so hardcounters won't be necessary.
ZvP - phoenix, multiple patches addressing air zerg
ZvZ - spore, at least one patch to address mutalisk
TvZ - thor, i believe there were multiple patches addressing the unit basedo n zerg air
Most of the time it was based on mutas, several times on BL. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, it would be wiser to change muta and BL? 
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On May 29 2020 01:45 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2020 22:34 Big J wrote:On May 28 2020 17:47 deacon.frost wrote:On May 28 2020 06:13 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Zergs also lost infested terrans, and broodlords get outranged by thors now.
Its a huge change to late game. Terrans arent as scared to keep making Command centers and get to the late game anymore, where as before they would just *all-in* on 3 bases , maybe 4 almost every game and try to end the game before mass infesters.
IMO, bring back infested terrans, but NOT the super rocket anti air. Were IT op against ground? I dont think so. Did they fix the bug the BL can shoot from +2 distance if not a-moved but directly aiming at target? (shift clicking thors) Not sure if it's a bug and if it's in the game anymore, but if it's still in the game BL outrange Thors It wasn't a bug and it isn't in the game anymore. The general behaviour how the broodlord actually works as a carrier is still there, but the broodling leash range has been reduced from 12 to 9. So as far as I understand it the actual broodlord range should be down to 9 (used to be 12), not 10 as the weapon stat in the game says. Thors have 11 range. Yeah. And thanks to that - 1 Thor counters mutas if they're under 20, and few Thor's counter Broodlords. As a Zerg I wish i had opportunity to make LITERALLY one unit to counter whole playstyle hard,l. Imagine 3 corruptors countering 10 BattleCruisers.
Thats honestly complete bull, ive seen a map where literally 5 thors get killed by 20 muta's which got magicboxed and barely any died. A thor is nice to scare some muta's away with bio support, but a single thor wont do much v 8+ muta's. Beside muta's are in a really good spot right now. They have a strong place in zvz, used in ZvP here and there and in ZvT we see them around 80% of the time. Even against mech with the rich vespene gass zergs like too play mass muta's v mech which involves thors and bc's. So I dont know Kev, but they seem like a good unit
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I too would like to know when Thors obtained this magical ability to counter any number of mutas lower than 20, especially given that the Thor vs muta interaction is exactly the same as in Heart of the Swarm, and they certainly didn't do that there.
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On May 29 2020 06:16 Athenau wrote:
I too would like to know when Thors obtained this magical ability to counter any number of mutas lower than 20, especially given that the Thor vs muta interaction is exactly the same as in Heart of the Swarm, and they certainly didn't do that there.
Thor has lost 1 armor since then.
I am unsure, but I believe that the splash radius has been reduced too.
Mutas are stronger vs thor now.
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On May 29 2020 06:56 Drfilip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 06:16 Athenau wrote:
I too would like to know when Thors obtained this magical ability to counter any number of mutas lower than 20, especially given that the Thor vs muta interaction is exactly the same as in Heart of the Swarm, and they certainly didn't do that there. Thor has lost 1 armor since then. I am unsure, but I believe that the splash radius has been reduced too. Mutas are stronger vs thor now.
Thors got +1 armor and increased splash radius in LotV, but they reverted that in-lieu of buffing the high-impact mode instead. Now the Thor vs muta interaction is exactly like it was in Heart of the Swarm
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On May 28 2020 20:02 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2020 18:00 pvsnp wrote:On May 28 2020 17:15 Tyrhanius wrote:On May 28 2020 13:53 pvsnp wrote:On May 28 2020 06:13 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Zergs also lost infested terrans, and broodlords get outranged by thors now.
Its a huge change to late game. Terrans arent as scared to keep making Command centers and get to the late game anymore, where as before they would just *all-in* on 3 bases , maybe 4 almost every game and try to end the game before mass infesters.
IMO, bring back infested terrans, but NOT the super rocket anti air. Were IT op against ground? I dont think so. TvZ is in a great spot now design-wise precisely because BL are shit. They are slow, valuable, vulnerable, and stackable units, designed in such a way that actively encourages turtling around a deathball. They are a wonderful example of the worst design principles in SC2. In their absence, Zerg uses ground units like Ultras and Lurkers. Faster units that fuel a dynamic multipronged, back-and-forth style with lots of action. And the less said about mass infestor the better. When Terrans start to say, the TvZ is in great spot, you have to understand that means for them... TvZ was at 70% on GSL, gomTvT and broodlords/infestors in WOL was more balanced than that. Zerg had a good lategame before simply because the map pool had big maps where it was easier to take a lot of expansions or to slow the mech push when the rush distance is long. Now it's not the case, and Zerg are in huge trouble because the two T3 units can't compete with the P/T lategame, and maps aren't not big enough to get enough expansions to compensate by a better macro the lack of cost effectivity of Zerg units. I like how you completely ignored my other comment just so you could whine disingenuously.. I like how you ignore any arguments i've provided to just nearly insult me. Unlike you i now play both Zerg and Terran, and i've to say i've gave up playing Zerg completly because it's x100 times more fun to play Terran than Zerg, specially in TvZ. You're claiming TvZ is fine designwise because you play on the only side who has fun in the match up. On the Zerg side, the game is a torture where you are the punching ball of the terran for 10min+. The number showed that's even not balance if you look the winrate. You speak about broodlords, but they are quite similar to liberator and siege tanks. Except broodlords is the hardest tech to unlock while siege tank is one of the easiest. Mech and siege tanks do encourage turtling way more than broodlords, whose actually main function in the MU is to be an anti-mass tanks. So the combination of tanks/thors give Terran a combinaison to turtle the whole game and event in lategame with little answer for Zerg. And ultras/lurkers are also counter by tanks. The only thing that remains is vipers, and grabing one by one the deathball which means long and uninteresting games.
Hate to break it to you buddy, but your ladder experience means nothing in terms of balance.
Git gud.
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On May 29 2020 01:59 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 01:45 hiroshOne wrote:On May 28 2020 22:34 Big J wrote:On May 28 2020 17:47 deacon.frost wrote:On May 28 2020 06:13 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Zergs also lost infested terrans, and broodlords get outranged by thors now.
Its a huge change to late game. Terrans arent as scared to keep making Command centers and get to the late game anymore, where as before they would just *all-in* on 3 bases , maybe 4 almost every game and try to end the game before mass infesters.
IMO, bring back infested terrans, but NOT the super rocket anti air. Were IT op against ground? I dont think so. Did they fix the bug the BL can shoot from +2 distance if not a-moved but directly aiming at target? (shift clicking thors) Not sure if it's a bug and if it's in the game anymore, but if it's still in the game BL outrange Thors It wasn't a bug and it isn't in the game anymore. The general behaviour how the broodlord actually works as a carrier is still there, but the broodling leash range has been reduced from 12 to 9. So as far as I understand it the actual broodlord range should be down to 9 (used to be 12), not 10 as the weapon stat in the game says. Thors have 11 range. Yeah. And thanks to that - 1 Thor counters mutas if they're under 20, and few Thor's counter Broodlords. As a Zerg I wish i had opportunity to make LITERALLY one unit to counter whole playstyle hard,l. Imagine 3 corruptors countering 10 BattleCruisers. Maybe one day Blizzard changes mutalisks, so hardcounters won't be necessary. ZvP - phoenix, multiple patches addressing air zerg ZvZ - spore, at least one patch to address mutalisk TvZ - thor, i believe there were multiple patches addressing the unit basedo n zerg air Most of the time it was based on mutas, several times on BL. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, it would be wiser to change muta and BL?
You cant expect blizzard to bring any type of balance to Zerg.
Yeah at the highest level in GSL they arent a factor. But the rest of the world is dominated by how OP the race actually is. Blizzard even stated in the past that they want to see Zerg win.
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