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skdsk
138 Posts
On July 02 2019 23:20 brickrd wrote: probably good changes for pro level but on casual ladder stim timings and ghosts are going to absolutely crush face lol casual ladder, nobody below master made ghost, what will change now? Nothing. Stim timing push?Nobody below master even understand what is timing. | ||
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La1
United Kingdom659 Posts
I've never seen a single terran defend a base with a turret and a ghost EMP+Turret = dead prism. I guess they don't need to because they are busy dropping 50 widow mines onto protoss back lines | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
If you are thinking right now :"what about zerg, they have nydus and thats low risk harass", well the nydus you are whining about takes 14 seconds to pop. You are complaining about your warpins taking 11 seconds instead of 4, well guess what that is reasonable. Imagine if we tried to make the nydus have 4 second build time, that doesn't sound very reasonable does it. I'm worried about the overall balance especially maybe protoss and zerg needs buffs in different areas to balance up the terran changes. BUT shortening stim is a really great change, stim is one of the big limiters of terran play right now. Terran is helpless before stim and when they have stim they still mostly rely on factory units in the current meta. This is a way to open up different paths for terran play which would be fun and interesting for all races (if its balanced of course). If its OP I would prefer to buff either P/Z or both and keep the stim buff because I really think it will help to vary the game up. The ghost buff sounds great too, personally as a diamond player ghosts were just impossible to use against P. Maybe I was just bad but either carrier/tempest/colossus/disruptor would always zone my ghosts. Sure ghost always had a slight increased range compared to HTs feedback but you shouldn't look at the units in a vacum. When you take into consideration the usual compositions I at least felt the protoss mostly had the advantages late game. I also think its pretty telling protoss always(pretty much) go HT late game but terran don't get ghosts, why would all protoss players go HT if they were countered by ghosts? Why would terran pros not build ghosts vs HTs if they have the edge in the micro battle, the answer is that they don't. HTs decide too much in lategame PvT. Terran bio dies to storm, terran vikings (vs skytoss) dies to storm, ghosts gets zoned by the forementioned protoss units. What should terran do? Go mech, BCs or simply try to basetrade or go all in nukes and hope for a lucky strike? Edit: if some of these changes go live this might actually entice me to play sc2 again! | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On July 02 2019 23:58 skdsk wrote: casual ladder, nobody below master made ghost, what will change now? Nothing. Stim timing push?Nobody below master even understand what is timing. This last statement is very far from truth, timings will be landed with delay but that's the typical "lol those low leaguers are soo nooob" comment. | ||
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GoSuNamhciR
124 Posts
This may end up hurting protoss too much, but time will tell. Terran definitely needed some help vs. P | ||
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samchan1331
17 Posts
I hope the balance team is not doing the prism change solely looking in PvT. | ||
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La1
United Kingdom659 Posts
On July 03 2019 01:05 samchan1331 wrote: Put all the PvT talks aside, the warp prism change will affect PvP and PvZ heavily. I hope the balance team is not doing the prism change solely looking in PvT. it creates a huge defenders advantage in pvp.. 4 sec warp ins vs 11 sec | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On July 03 2019 01:19 La1 wrote: it creates a huge defenders advantage in pvp.. 4 sec warp ins vs 11 sec That's not a bad thing to be honest, I think MSC pvp was the best time for the matchup, mid-late game pvp can be pretty interesting, the problem has always been passing the 10 minute mark. | ||
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
On July 02 2019 15:07 Ej_ wrote: The classic "Terran didn't win GSL so we are nerfing to other races and buffing Terran twice" Truly awful changes EXACTLY my thoughts. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On July 03 2019 00:33 La1 wrote: I love how terran can call the WP OP when they can drop their entire army into a base. I've never seen a single terran defend a base with a turret and a ghost EMP+Turret = dead prism. I guess they don't need to because they are busy dropping 50 widow mines onto protoss back lines I love how protoss can call the nydus OP when they can make their entire army in a base. I've never seen a single protoss defend a base with an immortal and a cannon immortal + cannon = dead nydus I guess they don't need to because they are busy warping in 50 zealots into zerg main. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On July 03 2019 00:33 La1 wrote: I love how terran can call the WP OP when they can drop their entire army into a base. I've never seen a single terran defend a base with a turret and a ghost EMP+Turret = dead prism. I guess they don't need to because they are busy dropping 50 widow mines onto protoss back lines Are you joking bro? To drop an entire army for Terrans they have to commit them by transporting them. For Protoss to Warp In with a Warp Prism they just risk the prism which is 200 minerals, any units killed as they warp in are cancelled not killed so money is returned. If Protoss overcommits they can recall. But the biggest part about the difference is that the Warp Prism can warp in reinforcements to an already existing army, nearly instantly whereas Terran Medivacs need to be made, transported and unloaded requiring travel time. The Warp Prism is a MUCH smaller commitment that a Protoss can cancel anytime they feel like. Doom Drops with medivacs are extremely high risk high reward moves that leaves a Terran completely vulnerable on the rest of the map. | ||
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GoSuNamhciR
124 Posts
On July 02 2019 23:58 skdsk wrote: casual ladder, nobody below master made ghost, what will change now? Nothing. Stim timing push?Nobody below master even understand what is timing. The noobs stim push will now be 21 seconds faster, even if their timing is later, it will still now be faster. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On July 03 2019 00:35 Xain0n wrote: This last statement is very far from truth, timings will be landed with delay but that's the typical "lol those low leaguers are soo nooob" comment. If the timings are delayed, they don't benefit from reduced upgrade time | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15956 Posts
On July 03 2019 01:34 youngjiddle wrote: 20 seconds is seriously so much time in Starcraft. Count it out loud. Protoss won't be able to get colossi in time with the old builds because of the early game pushes. No third base either. I mean, the medivac timing stays the same and stimmed bio without medivacs is quite lackluster so I don't think stim pushes will be much scarier now. This is more a defense buff imo | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On July 03 2019 01:34 youngjiddle wrote: 20 seconds is seriously so much time in Starcraft. Count it out loud. Protoss won't be able to get colossi in time with the old builds because of the early game pushes. No third base either. Well while you are right I'm not sure which situation you are talking about here but usually terran gets stim when they are pretty low on units. If they speed stim up 20 seconds that also means the terran will have less units when it finishes. Take terran 2-1-1 timing against against zerg, sure they stim 20 seconds earlier but their medivacs still come out the same time. If terran pushes out before the medivacs are done you would need to walk 5 marines to the enemy base to time the attack with stim. Is really 5 marines with stim at zergs third a big problem? Its the same with early marine attacks, sure stim hits earlier but it would also hit with at least 4 less marines (if 3 rax+1 reactor). I'm sure there are ways to make good aggresive builds if this patch goes through but its not like the same allin would just hit 20 seconds earlier, it would still be a smaller army. | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On July 03 2019 01:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Well while you are right I'm not sure which situation you are talking about here but usually terran gets stim when they are pretty low on units. If they speed stim up 20 seconds that also means the terran will have less units when it finishes. Take terran 2-1-1 timing against against zerg, sure they stim 20 seconds earlier but their medivacs still come out the same time. If terran pushes out before the medivacs are done you would need to walk 5 marines to the enemy base to time the attack with stim. Is really 5 marines with stim at zergs third a big problem? Its the same with early marine attacks, sure stim hits earlier but it would also hit with at least 4 less marines (if 3 rax+1 reactor). I'm sure there are ways to make good aggresive builds if this patch goes through but its not like the same allin would just hit 20 seconds earlier, it would still be a smaller army. so the attack hits when terran has 4 less marines and the protoss has one less warp in round and no colossi? we'll see lol | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25258 Posts
On July 02 2019 23:14 hiroshOne wrote: And Queens were nerfed in last patch as I recall, weren't they? Indeed, but nerfing such integral units, or buffing them is something that has to be done carefully because there are so many knock on effects. Some of the worst eras in SC2 have been on the back of Queens being too strong I’m actually in favour of nerfing the prism in some shape or form, but it’s so important to so many things Protoss do, harassment, reinforcement of pushes It needs tested in isolation IMO. I think the way they’ve done it they’re throwing in too many other buffs/nerfs so figuring out what is affecting what will be a nightmare. | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
On July 03 2019 02:11 youngjiddle wrote: so the attack hits when terran has 4 less marines and the protoss has one less warp in round and no colossi? we'll see lol no, the attack hits when terran has 4 less marines and no medivacs and the protoss has one less warp in round and no colossi. stimmed bio without medivacs is pretty much garbage. | ||
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GoSuNamhciR
124 Posts
On July 03 2019 01:26 InfCereal wrote: If the timings are delayed, they don't benefit from reduced upgrade time How do they not benefit from it? Maybe their build starts stim 20 seconds later, in which case they will still benefit from it being done 21 seconds FASTER. It's faster regardless, they still benefit. They may not benefit as much, but their opponents are also likely doing everything slower since they are likely also playing other noobs, in which case they benefit again. | ||
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