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On May 22 2007 03:02 mahnini wrote:
No, now I think your initial idea was correct, haha. The only difference is it works like a spell but for every unit you make the gateway you made it out of resets the cooldown for every type of unit. Hmm, but then why would they need separate numbers per icon?
because different unit types have different cooldowns...maybe the gateway that built the first zealot is already loaded and can produce a new zealot. but no immortal, yet...
On May 22 2007 03:02 mahnini wrote:
Edit: To make the idea more clear, the cooldown is for potentially units that you will be building, not for units that you have already built like my reverse build time idea.
Ex: Build zealot instantly, wait zealot build time, build any other unit instantly
Ex2: Wait for unit zealot build time, build zealot, wait for next desired unit build time to be reached, build unit, etc.
I think Ex2 is the way it will work.
This makes me think there are no queues at all because that would make Toss extremely imba, think about suiciding your 200/200 army but being able to build x4 that instantly. O.O
i would agree ex2 makes more sense...
i still go with my previous version: its some kind energy every gate has to load up (like mana) to build a unit (its the exact same system like cooldown, i just call it mana...). now the my question is: what is the max? it cant be 20 other wise a toss user can build 2 zealots out of one gate....just unfair....^^
and what about the update of an gateway to a warp gate? i have never read anything about that....??
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Omg, so much ado about nothing.
I'm pretty sure this is done like in DoW - first you produce something like it is produced normally, then this thing instead of going out goes to the building "hangar" from where you can deploy it anywhere. Momentary production is BS, Blizzard will NOT do this.
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woa some good ideas here seriously, hope ppl at blizz is reading this =D
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On May 22 2007 06:11 -DaJ- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2007 03:02 mahnini wrote:
No, now I think your initial idea was correct, haha. The only difference is it works like a spell but for every unit you make the gateway you made it out of resets the cooldown for every type of unit. Hmm, but then why would they need separate numbers per icon?
because different unit types have different cooldowns...maybe the gateway that built the first zealot is already loaded and can produce a new zealot. but no immortal, yet... Show nested quote +On May 22 2007 03:02 mahnini wrote:
Edit: To make the idea more clear, the cooldown is for potentially units that you will be building, not for units that you have already built like my reverse build time idea.
Ex: Build zealot instantly, wait zealot build time, build any other unit instantly
Ex2: Wait for unit zealot build time, build zealot, wait for next desired unit build time to be reached, build unit, etc.
I think Ex2 is the way it will work.
This makes me think there are no queues at all because that would make Toss extremely imba, think about suiciding your 200/200 army but being able to build x4 that instantly. O.O
i would agree ex2 makes more sense... i still go with my previous version: its some kind energy every gate has to load up (like mana) to build a unit (its the exact same system like cooldown, i just call it mana...). now the my question is: what is the max? it cant be 20 other wise a toss user can build 2 zealots out of one gate....just unfair....^^ and what about the update of an gateway to a warp gate? i have never read anything about that....??
If you look at the gameplay video the way it works in the game is obviously example 1. The units will be produced for free in the backround and when you need them you can warp them in for their unit cost and a few seconds warp in time. We don't know how many units Protoss will be able to build out of each gate but based on the replay it seems like they can build one per gate.
On May 22 2007 06:23 BluzMan wrote:
Omg, so much ado about nothing.
I'm pretty sure this is done like in DoW - first you produce something like it is produced normally, then this thing instead of going out goes to the building "hangar" from where you can deploy it anywhere. Momentary production is BS, Blizzard will NOT do this.
I'm pretty sure it won't work like in DoW. You'll be able to deploy them for their cost while they are produced for free in the background :=)
When used in combination with the mobile phase prisms, warp gates allow the protoss unprecedented flexibility in their force deployment. Warp gates can transport protoss warriors directly to the front lines, instantly send defenders to a beleaguered outpost, or rapidly build up attack groups in unexpected sectors. Enemy commanders must be constantly on the lookout for phase prisms penetrating their defensive zones or they can quickly find an entire protoss army deployed on their doorstep.
Seems to hint that Protoss will be able to build their units very fast.
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On May 22 2007 06:30 Zironic wrote:
If you look at the gameplay video the way it works in the game is obviously example 1. The units will be produced for free in the backround and when you need them you can warp them in for their unit cost and a few seconds warp in time. We don't know how many units Protoss will be able to build out of each gate but based on the replay it seems like they can build one per gate.
the presenter was in the game already for about a minute. of course he could just start with the unit production. because they are "loaded" automatically.
produce those ~16 zealots that fast because he selected ~16 gateways, which allows him to build/warp those zealots....
i would agree with one of the other posters, that they just adapted the "loading"-time for the demo...
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On May 22 2007 02:14 HiddenTalent wrote:
Hrm, Im confused now.... :/
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I can't even begin to say how brilliant of an idea this would be if this is the case.
This system singlehandely solves both the plight of the competitive community and the newb - to the newb, this seems like a great thing - you always can get units even if you don't pay attention, but in reality it also rewards speed and "macro".
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In order to maximize production you would have to manually go and build the units every cooldown yup :=)
The map editor will probably be able to modify the cap on the units that can be in the warp gate at once so they can create UMS maps where you warp in tons of units at once from one gate 
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Sweden33719 Posts
I'm not sure I've understood exactly how it works, but if it's how I think it is, that's SO BRILLIANT.
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Belgium8305 Posts
I understand the concept being explained here, and it seems to be consistent with what can be seen in the presentation... I'm gonna check it out again myself in a bit to make sure.
This really is a cool and innovative way of changing things around, and it makes sense, too. I was already wondering how warpgates were gonna be effective if the units couldn't be put on hold in some way, and this solves that problem beautifully. Way to go, Blizzard.
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Sounds like an interesting developement, but I will have to wait to hear from Blizzard before I cream my pants. 
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I didn't have time to read the whole thread but is it just me who thinks this concept sucks?
Of course you now have to 'release' each unit (more or less) separately but you can do that instantly. A bad player will no longer realize that he just lost a battle and forgot to reproduce his army while he is being run over. The gateways will produce zealots on their own, so you can never forget to produce units. So basically you still have to do about the same work as in BW but you can now chose the time almost freely. This of course requires less multitasking. Multitasking is only important if important 'events' collide in time.
edit: I hope BluzMan is right.
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This actually sounds really cool if it works how people seem to think it does. Really goes with their thing of making the races even more different.
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On May 22 2007 12:04 Asta wrote:
I didn't have time to read the whole thread but is it just me who thinks this concept sucks?
Of course you now have to 'release' each unit (more or less) separately but you can do that instantly. A bad player will no longer realize that he just lost a battle and forgot to reproduce his army while he is being run over. The gateways will produce zealots on their own, so you can never forget to produce units. So basically you still have to do about the same work as in BW but you can now chose the time almost freely. This of course requires less multitasking. Multitasking is only important if important 'events' collide in time.
edit: I hope BluzMan is right.
I think you somehow managed to completly fail to understand anything that has been said.
The gateways will (as it seems on the video) produce ONE, UNO Zealot until you choose to pay for it and warp it in. This means if you don't pay attention to your production the gateways will just stand idle with that one Zealot waiting to be warped in.
Since you this way can't queue units at all you have to pay even more attention to your unit production then before.
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4492 Posts
OK, I've analyzed the videos myself and I'd like to add a little correction as to how I see things.
It seems to me that the Warp Gates are indeed producing units automatically, just like as if it was a skill with a cooldown, and you can also warp the completed units anywhere in your pylon range (whether or not it has to be connected I dunno - in the demo, the prisms were in the range of the pylons atop of the platform, so that doesn't support either theory, nor disproves neither of them). However, I think the system goes a bit further than that, and this is my assumption:
The number of the Warp Gates a player has determines the amount of units "stacked" in queue and ready to be deployed, as well as the build time. Let's say you have 1 Warp Gate. The building time for a zealot would be 60 secs, for a stalk or an imma it would be 70 secs. Now, as soon as you build your Warp Gate (or upgrd from a Gateway rather) the counter goes down, and as 60 secs go by, you have a (1) next to your zealot picture, signifying you can now deploy a zealot. After 70 secs have passed, you get a (1) next to both the imma and the stalk so you can now deploy 1 of those (or choose to deploy the zealot having wasted 10 seconds of valuable building time).
Now, if you have 2 gateways, I imagine the build time (the spell cooldown time if you wish) would be halved. Building a zealot now would take only 30 secs, and if 30 secs have passed you get a (1) near your zealot picture, if 60 secs have passed you get a (2).
What I base this upon, is that in essence, it would still enable the player to produce the same amount of units in the same period of time, except being able to choose when to deploy them, which would be necessary with this system, since you can't queue any units anymore, just like the Zerg can't either. Another thing is, if you watch the cooldown rate for the zealots with 16 gateways, it seemed to be freaking fast, so my assumption would be that that is because the building time was essentially 1/16th of the original.
Of course these are all but guesses, but this is how I see the system ATM.
-Mynock
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On May 22 2007 12:25 Mynock wrote:
OK, I've analyzed the videos myself and I'd like to add a little correction as to how I see things.
It seems to me that the Warp Gates are indeed producing units automatically, just like as if it was a skill with a cooldown, and you can also warp the completed units anywhere in your pylon range (whether or not it has to be connected I dunno - in the demo, the prisms were in the range of the pylons atop of the platform, so that doesn't support either theory, nor disproves neither of them). However, I think the system goes a bit further than that, and this is my assumption:
The number of the Warp Gates a player has determines the amount of units "stacked" in queue and ready to be deployed, as well as the build time. Let's say you have 1 Warp Gate. The building time for a zealot would be 60 secs, for a stalk or an imma it would be 70 secs. Now, as soon as you build your Warp Gate (or upgrd from a Gateway rather) the counter goes down, and as 60 secs go by, you have a (1) next to your zealot picture, signifying you can now deploy a zealot. After 70 secs have passed, you get a (1) next to both the imma and the stalk so you can now deploy 1 of those (or choose to deploy the zealot having wasted 10 seconds of valuable building time).
Now, if you have 2 gateways, I imagine the build time (the spell cooldown time if you wish) would be halved. Building a zealot now would take only 30 secs, and if 30 secs have passed you get a (1) near your zealot picture, if 60 secs have passed you get a (2).
What I base this upon, is that in essence, it would still enable the player to produce the same amount of units in the same period of time, except being able to choose when to deploy them, which would be necessary with this system, since you can't queue any units anymore, just like the Zerg can't either. Another thing is, if you watch the cooldown rate for the zealots with 16 gateways, it seemed to be freaking fast, so my assumption would be that that is because the building time was essentially 1/16th of the original.
Of course these are all but guesses, but this is how I see the system ATM.
-Mynock
Yeah, I think you are right, but this was already stated in this thread, but not in this detail. And I think it is a really great idea.
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Thats freaking cool!! I just hope this does not make protoss too powerful at later stages. Imagin being able to have pylons at important places around the map and warping in 16 zealots every few seconds around the map lol. Then again I'm sure much like normal BWs if you let your opponent get the economy to support 16 gates your most likely screwed anyway lol.
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On May 22 2007 06:23 BluzMan wrote:
Omg, so much ado about nothing.
I'm pretty sure this is done like in DoW - first you produce something like it is produced normally, then this thing instead of going out goes to the building "hangar" from where you can deploy it anywhere. Momentary production is BS, Blizzard will NOT do this.
That's exactly what I'm thinking..
Too much commotion into build times and queues and mana...
BluzMan pointed out the most obvious approach into how the warp gates work..
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On May 22 2007 13:23 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2007 06:23 BluzMan wrote:
Omg, so much ado about nothing.
I'm pretty sure this is done like in DoW - first you produce something like it is produced normally, then this thing instead of going out goes to the building "hangar" from where you can deploy it anywhere. Momentary production is BS, Blizzard will NOT do this. That's exactly what I'm thinking.. Too much commotion into build times and queues and mana... BluzMan pointed out the most obvious approach into how the warp gates work..
I disagree and think Mynocks way is alot more logical and also happens to be the way it works in the video.
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I disagree with Mynocks theory. I think this is the case because the gateways will most likely have some kind of building animation, and I think a system like this would benefit from graphical feedback.
Also that kind of system have the potential to be seriously imbalanced in some situations, specifically if the dark templar is still in the game. The ability to pop out a unit every 5 seconds would be huge distraction to the enemy. Basically you could pop out and A move units all over the map easily while the enemey is forced to respond to each one to save his workers.
Finally such a system (speed depending on total number of gateways) would mean that there would have to be separate systems for warpgates and normal gates, otherwise you could build just 1 warpgate and intead of deploying 15 zealots at your base and 1 zealot in the enemy base at your prism you click once every 5 seconds when the cooldown resets and get the same ammount of zealots in the enemy base without buying more than one warpgate (of course the upgrade could be a tier 3 done at the nexus instead of all the gates individually and then mynocs theory is much more plausible.)
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EPT
