EPT*edit* omg talking so much about zealots just turned me into one =D
Protoss - New method of Production? - Page 6
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
*edit* omg talking so much about zealots just turned me into one =D | ||
|
Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
| ||
|
fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On May 22 2007 16:04 Raist wrote: the most logical way they would work would be this: lets say 60 seconds for zealot build time 1 gateway - 60 seconds later a 1 appears next to zealot icon 2 gateways - 60 seconds later a 2 appears next to zealot icon 16 gateways - 60 seconds later a 16 appears next to zealot icon number next to zealot icon indicates how many you can warp in at once the simplest explanation tends to be the correct one exactly. I am just trying to empasize that I think the game does the production for you, and then waits for you to place on the map so it can start a new cycle. But with what I am thinking of, it would work exactly like that. | ||
Mynock
4492 Posts
Dariush: Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you had 3 gates tho, you could make a zealot every 20 seconds, yes, except that if you select any of those gates, you could deploy only 1. If you select 2 you could deploy 2, etc... Let's say you have 6 WGs, and 30 secs have passed - you can select 4 of your WGs, and they will show you 3 units available, and a cooldown counter going down still. If you select more WGs than you have units ready, it will just add another unit count to the available ones each time a cooldown finishes, and start another one, up to the point it reaches it's saturation limit (prolly the number of WGs you have). That's partially why I think the cooldown is prolly global, since it would be a bitch to have to pay attention to 10+ WGs, and have to manually check for every gate's availability at exactly the right time in order not to waste any production time (since there's no queue). Imagine having to warp in units from 20 WGs - you can't just put them on queue like you did with usual gates - you can't just take time away from battle when and how long you wish to go back and make units, you will have to select all the WGs and start deploying the units just as the become available, else you're getting punished. So if that happenes during a lenghty battle you'll basically have to choose which punishment to take - micro or macro .As it is now, you can be microing and don't worry about unit production for a while, since you have a couple of them queued already. -Mynock | ||
|
Mynock
4492 Posts
On May 22 2007 17:39 Jyvblamo wrote: Global cooldowns that vary with the number of Gates selected would cause helluva lot of problems, like Dariush said. I think that the simpler idea, individual Gate cooldowns, is the most likely. All speculation though, given Blizzard's tight-lipped policy. No, it cannot depend on the WGs selected, but nobody said that anyway  fusionsdf: yes, that would also be a possibility, but in that case, I'd have to suppose (judging from the video) that zeals are building pretty fucking fast in SC2 -Mynock | ||
|
nagash
Australia58 Posts
On May 22 2007 17:50 Mynock wrote: No, it cannot depend on the WGs selected, but nobody said that anyway fusionsdf: yes, that would also be a possibility, but in that case, I'd have to suppose (judging from the video) that zeals are building pretty fucking fast in SC2 -Mynock It looks to be about 30 (Edit: 40 secs actually) seconds, judging from time elapsed deploying first zeal till he selects them all against the cooldown indicator. | ||
|
Mynock
4492 Posts
On May 22 2007 17:54 nagash wrote: It looks to be about 30 seconds, judging from time elapsed deploying first zeal till he selects them all against the cooldown indicator. Looks a bit too fast for me if that game was indeed on slow settings, but who knows - it's nothing way too extraordinary... Could work that way :/ Edit: But humm, think about it... If you have 30 WGs, whenever you want to build from all of them, you will have to select them, and empty all of them at the precise time over and over again, else you'll be losing valuable time... But I guess you could counter that by making extra WGs to compensate for that inability. I dunno, sounds a bit meeeh tho. I'm really curious as to what the actual concept is  -Mynock | ||
|
DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
| ||
|
Dariush
Romania330 Posts
On May 22 2007 17:48 Mynock wrote: Dariush: Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you had 3 gates tho, you could make a zealot every 20 seconds, yes, except that if you select any of those gates, you could deploy only 1. If you select 2 you could deploy 2, etc... Let's say you have 6 WGs, and 30 secs have passed - you can select 4 of your WGs, and they will show you 3 units available, and a cooldown counter going down still. If you select more WGs than you have units ready, it will just add another unit count to the available ones each time a cooldown finishes, and start another one, up to the point it reaches it's saturation limit (prolly the number of WGs you have). -Mynock What you described there , imo , can be a separate cooldown system that when you select all gates it shows how many of them are ready to make a unit , and add them to the counter, but if you select only 1 , it shows if its ready to make a unit , or is it still in cooldown. Thats why the cooldown , on multiple buildings is shown only after the counter reaches 0. at least thats what i saw in the video I still guess its a 3 zealots every 60 secs rather than 1 every 20. | ||
|
Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On May 22 2007 17:50 Mynock wrote: No, it cannot depend on the WGs selected, but nobody said that anyway fusionsdf: yes, that would also be a possibility, but in that case, I'd have to suppose (judging from the video) that zeals are building pretty fucking fast in SC2 -Mynock Okay sorry, I went back and reread of the posts and I guess I misunderstood some of what was said. However, I still believe that the cooldown will be different for each gate. This may be extremely demanding macro-wise, but isn't Starcraft already like that? It rewards players who can multitask. There are already many things in Starcraft which 'punish' players for not using them regularly, such as scanners which can only store up to 4 scans, HT which can only store up to 3 storms, etc. Perhaps there will be an upgrade to allow W.G.s to queue up additonal 'warps', just like there are upgrades which allow for spellcasters to store more energy. Just a thought. | ||
|
nagash
Australia58 Posts
More likely is a mid-game scenario where you have 3-4 warp gates and you use them in a drop on the mineral lines. Send Phase Prism in, drop 4 zeals, blink 4 stalkers up the cliff, convert Prism to Pylon mode, warp in 3-4 more zeals from your gates. | ||
|
fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
Keep in mind that this is going to require teching to even pull that off. You will have to tech up to phase prism, and then upgrate all 4 gateways to warpgates. So it will likely be a rather large investment. | ||
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
| ||
|
fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On May 22 2007 17:57 Mynock wrote: Looks a bit too fast for me if that game was indeed on slow settings, but who knows - it's nothing way too extraordinary... Could work that way :/ Edit: But humm, think about it... If you have 30 WGs, whenever you want to build from all of them, you will have to select them, and empty all of them at the precise time over and over again, else you'll be losing valuable time... But I guess you could counter that by making extra WGs to compensate for that inability. I dunno, sounds a bit meeeh tho. I'm really curious as to what the actual concept is -Mynock I think this is a very novel way to preserve the importance of macro. Note though that you dont actually have to select each individual one. You can just do a mous sweep and then start clicking on the map. | ||
|
Tiku
18 Posts
Let's assume that all protoss buildings follow the same cooldown warp in system that we see with the warp gates, this would essentially make macroing just different in Sc2 compared to Sc. Being able to select multiple buildings doesn't have to make production overly simple like some people have feared. Maybe even a similar system is being used for terran? Think about it. It could easily be transfered and adjusted accordingly. Let's say you have 4 barracks selected. The different units that you can produce will show up as icons with the number 0 in the corner. Then let's say you click twice on the Marine and twice on the Reaper. The icons will now both show the number 2 in the corner showing that two of both units are being trained, and have a visible clock timer indicating when the first unit will be available. I know this is highly theorycrafting, but with such a queueless system you can always keep track of how many units you are making of the different types with ease, but will also have to keep at it to continue to produce the units you want. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
i always thought protoss and terran were too similar | ||
|
.kaz
1963 Posts
| ||
|
shadowenergy
Australia78 Posts
I wonder if Terran economy/production was also modified/revamped to be more unique in comparison to their sc counterparts and to the other 2 races. On May 22 2007 21:35 Tiku wrote: Maybe even a similar system is being used for terran? Think about it. It could easily be transfered and adjusted accordingly. Let's say you have 4 barracks selected. . I actually hope that each race is as unique/distinct from the others as possible (without balancing issues) and hope terrans get their own inginous production system, but I guess we have to wait and see. | ||
|
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
| ||
|
DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
Lets say that normal gateways dont require you to click on the ground for the unit to spawn. So you can just click you "gateway" hotkey in the middle of combat and click it "Z" a few times to spawn a few more zealots in your base. I think that macro would be hard enough since there are no queues. To make use of your warpgates and spawn units where ever you want would be harder since you would have to click the ground where you want them to spawn and so cant do it in combat as easily. I hope this is how blizzard has designed the gateway/warpgate. It would make the basic gateway not as versatile but easier to use and the warpgate a bit harder to use but a lot more versatile. Now lets look at terrans. Do you think they work in the same way as in starcraft with unit queues? But they also are able to select any number of buildings? Then the attention needed for terran production would be much lower than it is for protoss production. Maybe as a terran you need to tab through the gates to produce from them if you have many selected. I hope so atleast. | ||
| ||
![[image loading]](http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2406/macrocyclebb6.png)
