EPTCommunity Feedback Update - May 8 - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
MiCroLiFe
Norway264 Posts
| ||
|
MrWayne
219 Posts
On May 09 2018 03:01 MockHamill wrote: The Viking buff is not enough to be able to trade vs Carriers. If Vikings got 1 armor as well you could actually use Vikings to counter Carriers. Carrier+storm still hard counter everything that is Terran and now when Ravens get nerfed into the ground playing TvP late game will be even more unplayable. But at least all-inning with bio will be more effective. The Marauder change will help bio but it will also be the end of mech. No one will use mech when you have 20 damage marauders with superior mobility. Mech is already useless in TvP, after this mech will be even worse. In TvZ mech will be dead outside of pre hive timing attacks. Ravens were the unit that made TvZ late game possible, just ghosts will not suffice when going up against BroodLord/Corruptor/Vipers. In TvT bio will be both stronger and more mobile than mech so I think mech will become extinct here as well. Overall this patch will probably improve Terran win rates. But it will change mech from being viable in 2 matchups to being viable in 0 matchups. What are you talking about? We saw a lot of Mech pre 4.0 and before the big Raven buff in late January, hell the go to composition was Mech and we also saw a lot of great late game MechvZ after the Ghost buff without a single raven being used. | ||
|
MiCroLiFe
Norway264 Posts
it takes 45 seeker missiles to kill 1 carrier! to op! lets nerf so 90 is needed! WHY DONT THEY FREAKIN NERF AOE FROM TOSS N ZERG? storm and vipers spell should also be nerfed im glad that i can get winrates tvp again from all ins  | ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
On May 09 2018 03:33 MrWayne wrote: What are you talking about? We saw a lot of Mech pre 4.0 and before the big Raven buff in late January, hell the go to composition was Mech and we also saw a lot of great late game MechvZ after the Ghost buff without a single raven being used. We saw "a lot of mech" (10% of games at most..?) because bio was getting demolished by the new hydra / bane composition and people started studying other compositions. And it wasn't exactly winning a lot of games once vipers were out. That form of mech as a pre-hive timing attack was viable for a short bit, until zerg realised they could get a massive hydra army AND vipers even for a push coming before 10 minutes. Which is why terran had to go back on the defensive. Which is why ravens (or some form of actually good AA) is needed, because otherwise terran just can't fight lategame zerg (and protoss. And all of that is due to the viper and the tempest.) Hell, something interesting would be to transform the raven in a true support unit, with for example scrambling missile + healing drone + pdd. All of a sudden, no more mass missiles problem, but ravens get a true defined role of "keep other stuff alive". | ||
|
hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
...Marauder rebuff will completely destroy TvZ. Ultralisks will be trash unit vs BIO just as they were in HOTS. Remember Ultralisks armour nerf after major chsnges? They said they are nerfing it because new Marauder is not as strong as their HOTS version because of that 2 weaker attacks instead of one strong. Now they give Terran back HOTS marauder forgeting that even now stimed BIO is wrecking Ultras if they don't have enough support. Especially with ghost snipes- which were buffed also because of Ultras are supposed to be too strong... In the same time they forget that in HOTS Infestors and funghal growth was BETTER than now. Rooting units vs slowing them...They forget about Anti Armour Missile from Raven which is demolishing vs Ultras too. I expect Ultras to be much more trash vs BIO than they were in HOTS. Mark my words. Zerg players choose Broodlords for a REASON Blizzard. Not because they don't like Ultras. Its just better choice if u manage to live to get them. Raven change- much needed and much appreciated. Pitty that knowing the issue, Blizzard choose to wait longer before implementing it. Overall - I understand why Blizzard is reverting Marauders (TvP) but without buffs to Zerg, it will ruin this matchup even more. | ||
|
ThunderJunk
United States677 Posts
| ||
|
xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
| ||
|
Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On May 09 2018 03:44 hiroshOne wrote: I understand this changes concidering TvP and how broken it is but... ...Marauder rebuff will completely destroy TvZ. Ultralisks will be trash unit vs BIO just as they were in HOTS. Remember Ultralisks armour nerf after major chsnges? They said they are nerfing it because new Marauder is not as strong as their HOTS version because of that 2 weaker attacks instead of one strong. Now they give Terran back HOTS marauder forgeting that even now stimed BIO is wrecking Ultras if they don't have enough support. Especially with ghost snipes- which were buffed also because of Ultras are supposed to be too strong... In the same time they forget that in HOTS Infestors and funghal growth was BETTER than now. Rooting units vs slowing them...They forget about Anti Armour Missile from Raven which is demolishing vs Ultras too. I expect Ultras to be much more trash vs BIO than they were in HOTS. Mark my words. Zerg players choose Broodlords for a REASON Blizzard. Not because they don't like Ultras. Its just better choice if u manage to live to get them. Raven change- much needed and much appreciated. Pitty that knowing the issue, Blizzard choose to wait longer before implementing it. Overall - I understand why Blizzard is reverting Marauders (TvP) but without buffs to Zerg, it will ruin this matchup even more. Mate, BZ will ignore everything in the past and relentlessly buff T. It has been their motto for ages. Mech cancer is still a horrible com to play vs. Even the pro players admit that they hate it as it is slow, clunky and practically no micro whatsover + tedious to control but it is OP so may as well use it anyway. Bio looks worse because mech is strong. Now they buff everything to make sure bio even better. I basically hold no breath when it comes to balance updates these days. All T changes because T is weak (eyes-rolling). User was warned for this post. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7104 Posts
On May 09 2018 04:25 Vutalisk wrote: Mate, BZ will ignore everything in the past and relentlessly buff T. It has been their motto for ages. Mech cancer is still a horrible com to play vs. Even the pro players admit that they hate it as it is slow, clunky and practically no micro whatsover + tedious to control but it is OP so may as well use it anyway. Bio looks worse because mech is strong. Now they buff everything to make sure bio even better. I basically hold no breath when it comes to balance updates these days. All T changes because T is weak (eyes-rolling). :D User was temp banned for this post. | ||
|
hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On May 09 2018 04:25 Vutalisk wrote: Mate, BZ will ignore everything in the past and relentlessly buff T. It has been their motto for ages. Mech cancer is still a horrible com to play vs. Even the pro players admit that they hate it as it is slow, clunky and practically no micro whatsover + tedious to control but it is OP so may as well use it anyway. Bio looks worse because mech is strong. Now they buff everything to make sure bio even better. I basically hold no breath when it comes to balance updates these days. All T changes because T is weak (eyes-rolling). I feel like instead buffing Terran to help them in TvP, they should look into Protoss- tone down Chronoboost for example. | ||
|
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 09 2018 04:37 hiroshOne wrote: I feel like instead buffing Terran to help them in TvP, they should look into Protoss- tone down Chronoboost for example. People who aren't you don't think PvZ should be unwinnable. | ||
|
xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
I'm with Ret about TvP; this patch will change nothing. | ||
|
ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
| ||
|
xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
Still, i don't think mech will ever be viable vs protoss unless there's a massive nerf to airtoss, warp prism and maybe immortals. | ||
|
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 09 2018 05:01 ReachTheSky wrote: Am I the only one who still thinks the marauder concussive shell upgrade should be reverted? This upgrade was implemented in WoL Beta. I feel like it should go back to being included for free. It would open things up early game for terran vs protoss and give players room for creativity when it comes to build orders since they have the 50 extra gas early game. Ah yes, giving room for creativity by making proxy marauders incredibly strong while not doing anything else of note. | ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
On May 09 2018 05:04 xTJx wrote: I find most interesting that now that mech's been buffed, most terrans are playing bio vs Zerg again. Funny, considering how many years they asked for mech. Such memers. Still, i don't think mech will ever be viable vs protoss unless there's a massive nerf to airtoss, warp prism and maybe immortals. Ironically, mech has never been as close as being viable since a long time vP. And after the raven nerf, it'll be waaaayy harder to play mech lategame vZ rather than vP. If not for the tempest being a retarded unit, it would actually be strong. | ||
|
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 09 2018 05:14 Lyyna wrote: Ironically, mech has never been as close as being viable since a long time vP. And after the raven nerf, it'll be waaaayy harder to play mech lategame vZ rather than vP. If not for the tempest being a retarded unit, it would actually be strong. Most mech games never even reach the raven stage, so you're overstating how it'll affect TvZ. And you think the tempest of all units it why mech isn't viable in TvP?!? Not the immortal or chargelots or carriers or something else? Just to be clear, by mech you don't mean mass ranged liberators right, because tempests are pretty far down the list of reasons why mech's not great in TvP. | ||
|
SCHWARZENEGGER
206 Posts
| ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
On May 09 2018 05:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Most mech games never even reach the raven stage, so you're overstating how it'll affect TvZ. And you think the tempest of all units it why mech isn't viable in TvP?!? Not the immortal or chargelots or carriers or something else? Just to be clear, by mech you don't mean mass ranged liberators right, because tempests are pretty far down the list of reasons why mech's not great in TvP. Most mech games wouldn't happen if the raven did not exist as a fallback for the lategame. Just like before the raven buff, ya know ? What would be the point of going for a strategy that revolves around a single push & autolose if that push doesn't kill the opponent ? That actually sounds a lot like current TvP, speaking of that. Yes, the tempest. Same reason why the raven in lategame makes TvZ mech midgame viable ; because unlike in TvZ, in TvP the terran has no good composition that he can transition to in lategame and still trade efficiently against an opponent with a superior economy, which is impossible to avoid in both matchups because that's how zerg works, and because lolbatteries / cannons / warps. Hellbat / tank / ghost / lib does very well against zeal / immo. Carriers can be killed by mass libs or BCs - the units that are hard countered by tempest (+storm). There is no way to fight a tempest / HT / battery force if the protoss isn't an extremely polite fellow who stack his air army upon seeing 10 ravens coming at him (most protoss in master, apparently) I've been meching for years, i'm not feeling too much like i'm pulling shit out of my ass there. | ||
|
Lexender
Mexico2627 Posts
On May 09 2018 03:25 xelnaga_empire wrote: They are buffing Viking, Auto Turret, and Marauder. Are these buffs enough to offset the Anti Armor Missile nerf? No. All these changes affect mid game not lategame (well viking does). I dont disagree with why they do this, they want less games being about lategame armies that last for 40 mins and more about games ending in midgame. The problem is that this does nothing for the current problems while adding more. Against Z terran will still go for mass ghost because marauders do nothing against hydra/bane comps, the only difference is that now we have a worst raven, so it will be the same as before, just with less ravens and more ghosts. Against P it will still be 2 base all ins, the only difference being that they will be stronger. Meanwhile ultras will be out of TvZs, terran still wont want to go lategame vs toss, and on top of that mech is being more brushed aside (TvZ it should still be viable but in TvT I can see it dissapear) | ||
| ||
