Community Feedback Update - May 8 - Page 4

On May 09 2018 07:44 Solar424 wrote:
Terran gets 3 buffs and 1 nerf and still find a way to wine XD Never change, Terran players, because Blizzard will always listen to you no matter what.

On May 09 2018 03:11 Charoisaur wrote:

Worthless HP change like the Hydra or Adept hp changes were

On May 09 2018 06:04 hiroshOne wrote:
Well...Once droperlords or even possibility of early droperlord kept Protoss honest in the same way. But guess what XD

On May 09 2018 12:07 SirPinky wrote:
This balance patch reminds me when I give my kids chores to do and they say "Dad, look I did ten chores in a half hour!" Then I have to remind them it is not about quantity it is about quality.

How does this analogy relate? Blizzard essentially gave Terran three negligible buffs for trading one major late-game support unit; it is not about quantity it is about quality. Terran was already crippled by late game Protoss (Tempest/Storm/Carrier) and Zerg (Broodlord/Viper/Corruptor). Some would argue Marauder is a large buff, but sorry, that unit does not shoot up will only increase all-ins. The HP buff is nothing compared to storm, parasitic bomb, mass interceptors etc. Think to yourself: "Gee, my army has a wopping 200 HP more with 20 Vikings - I'm sure that is going to really make a difference with a maxed out Zerg and Protoss with spell casters."

I don't understand Blizzards logic in having Terran scale with other races (like Protoss) when, in the late game, they ultimately have nothing of value to fight with a maxed out army. I could have 10k/10k in the bank but if I have far inferior units to keep headbutting against my opponent, then what is the point.

Mark my words, Blizzard not only single handedly destroyed an already bad Terran late game, but nullified any chance for viable mech while simultaneously encouraging Terran 2-base all-ins. If stats start turning in Terrans favor it will not be because of healthy balance; it will be Terrans running to end the game before 10 minutes because they don't have any options after that.

On May 09 2018 12:17 engesser1 wrote:

So what is your suggestions and how to make it work? I'm pretty sure we talking about the major patch (a global thing). But how it could be possible to do when we live with patch 4.0 only for 6 month?

In the current situation we should accept anything from Blizzard. Any case, they listened us. They said something. This is not a deaf wall between them and players.

Hey! Hard to pinpoint one thing, there's several build orders for Protoss which are all viable, and have very different possibilities - Twilight = Aggressive Blink, Defensive blink (3 base), Nothing to do with blink but a fake out and tech, DT. Robo = Collosus 2 base, Collosus 3 base, Immortal, Warp prism aggression, Disruptor Drops. Stargate = Oracle 1x into phoenix, 2x oracle, 3x oracle +

They are all good openings, and can lead to very quick and efficient victories, anyone of them can change too based on what they're seeing, if a Protoss sees the Terran is going 3 cc (probe scout initially into the adept across the map) Lets say he was going robo initially into 3 base was his plan in mind, he can then very quickly transition into a warp prism opening and put on pressure. I feel there's a huge amount of lenience in Protoss builds that allow them to go from being "hardcountered" to doing the hard countering, now that example was very basic. But if you see a terran that goes 5 rax before his 3rd cc, there's no real getting out of what he's gonna do, if you see his addons, you can also tell what army comp you're gonna face, If you see 1/1/1 from a terran with an oracle for instance, you see the addons or lack of, and you can tell what's coming, and everything that comes out of a 1/1/1 has the a very similar response and won't really slow down a toss. If you see 3 cc, you can change, if you see 3 rax then 3rd cc, you have your 3rd up already and respond appropriately. Protoss will always get the 3rd up faster than the terran, they can scout better than a terran (Oracle or observers) and they get upgrades faster than a terran, they also have much better late game so the Terran is working with less readable. The shield battery is a very quick "Ah, so the terran is going to be pushing at X:xx minute mark, i'll throw up 3 shield batteries for the attack since my economy is better." All in all, when you play as a Terran vs Protoss, you pick a build at the start of the game, the issue comes in that once you've made your choice, that's it, can do the hard countering, or be hard countered, but as long as a Protoss scouts, he should never realistically be hard countered. It's a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors where they can change their answer. Extremely frustrating and very unforgiving for a terran.

The specific point you missed here is, they can afford to do it since they get a 3rd up much faster than a terran meaning their economy is better, so technically if You survive, you win. Throwing up bunkers because an attack is coming, vs an opponent that is already ahead because they have an extra base, is not a way of getting out of a bad situation, it's a way of further cementing it.

Most TvP's you see will have this trend where Protoss has the harrass Option (oracle) while also getting up a third much faster, so they not only get to expand faster, they also have better scouting info with their harrass tool.

You're missing the point again, having a third base doesn't mean that's where you're going to attack, having a third base means you have a superior economy and so the argument you made earlier saying, terran can just slap down bunkers right, or Zerg can just slap down static right, You can, but if you're already behind you're cementing that position of being behind. You don't play TvT where your opponent is already on 3 bases, and then you take your 3rd later and make it a PF, you just guaranteed you lost the game.

Acid Plant and Catalyst -- Catalyst is a great example of a map you don't drop reason being -- there's only 1 drop spot (The main), and realistically only 1 ground attack spot (at the third, you're never gonna go up the ramps near the natural as 1 sentry will ruin your day). And so being able to put down Shield batteries only at the third (Natural isn't penetrable) and the 130 supply, superior economy vs the 120 supply, inferior economy situation, especially as you can revelate his army permanently, or have observers to keep tabs, losing to drops in the main with stalkers waiting at high level isn't something that's going to happen, especially given the ground point of attack is across the map compared to the main meaning no room for back and forth. You talking about Protoss All ins to validate your point is kinda like me talking about how Zerg 1 base ling/bling all in counters cc first. It's not the meta the top level players are doing, and so bringing that up is as relevant as me talking about flavours of tea in this convo. You watch Maru, Inno or TY try play TvP, Innovation in the Olimo league was a great example of how terrans are playing, it's 2 base or die trying. If you're doing a 2 base all in vs a protoss, there's no chance of flying and dropping into a base, the chances of losing are far higher than a ground attack, hence why the best terrans don't do that, you utilise the best ground position you can. (Which your opponents will also know, which is why it's easy to know where to put up static).

I wrote a decent lengthed paragraph of a multitude of situations that all accumulate to give Protoss an edge, for you to speak specifically of only specifically shield batteries is incorrect. And given you're speaking of examples and scenarios that don't occur at a top level, and seemingly missing every point I bring up, I think we should conclude here and just agree to disagree.

On May 09 2018 12:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:
For the Protoss players that don't understand why Blizzard had to make these changes, Protoss had an advantage going into the mid-game against Terran. Demuslim explains it pretty well here:


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/8c0cr7/meanwhile_uthermal_vs_dns/dxbtrmw/

Further explanations from Demuslim:


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/8c0cr7/meanwhile_uthermal_vs_dns/dxieovz/

And even further explanations from Demuslim:


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/8c0cr7/meanwhile_uthermal_vs_dns/dxil6i2/

On May 09 2018 13:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:

You're speaking to a non-existent audience. This thread is all about the upset mech and zerg players.