On May 09 2018 12:07 SirPinky wrote: This balance patch reminds me when I give my kids chores to do and they say "Dad, look I did ten chores in a half hour!" Then I have to remind them it is not about quantity it is about quality.
How does this analogy relate? Blizzard essentially gave Terran three negligible buffs for trading one major late-game support unit; it is not about quantity it is about quality. Terran was already crippled by late game Protoss (Tempest/Storm/Carrier) and Zerg (Broodlord/Viper/Corruptor). Some would argue Marauder is a large buff, but sorry, that unit does not shoot up will only increase all-ins. The HP buff is nothing compared to storm, parasitic bomb, mass interceptors etc. Think to yourself: "Gee, my army has a wopping 200 HP more with 20 Vikings - I'm sure that is going to really make a difference with a maxed out Zerg and Protoss with spell casters."
I don't understand Blizzards logic in having Terran scale with other races (like Protoss) when, in the late game, they ultimately have nothing of value to fight with a maxed out army. I could have 10k/10k in the bank but if I have far inferior units to keep headbutting against my opponent, then what is the point.
Mark my words, Blizzard not only single handedly destroyed an already bad Terran late game, but nullified any chance for viable mech while simultaneously encouraging Terran 2-base all-ins. If stats start turning in Terrans favor it will not be because of healthy balance; it will be Terrans running to end the game before 10 minutes because they don't have any options after that.
Don't involve your kids in your arguing, that's gross. A spammable quasi instant seeker missile is just ridiculous design wise, you should be grateful that blizzard let this joke unchanged + the +1 range of the turret is actually big and could be pretty strong combined with the seeker's armor reduced but I bet you do not even realize this as you do not talk about. The seeker was not supposed to destroy by itself gigantic bulbs of zergs army but was intended as a support spell which it is in tvp (clearly, it works pretty well in this mu). Now, we have turtling T who waits until they have mass raven with hellbat/thor (inno/rogue) or just a lot of ghost/turrets and this is quiet ugly, while there are solutions to break this, the point is that late game tvz is just terrible. And the other buffs while minor could have their importance, the goal is not to have a 300 hp vikings tho it is pretty sure that it would not stop your balance whining. Anyway, that's a sensitive patch, the ultra could become less popular but it seems like a minor problem for now.
I really, really, reaaaaally hate Blizzard's 'don't let them get there' approach to lategame involving terran. Why does SC2 have to be the only RTS game still alive? Why does god hate RTS fans so much and must punish us like this?
Instead of nerfing anti armor missile to 15 damage, what Blizzard should do is increase it (and then we doubled it) to 60 damage. I really want to see some pro games with 60 damage AAMs blotting out the sun.
After all we want to see amazing games like these:
The Viking has never been in a better spot than as of late, especially with the ground damage buff to mechanical and smart servos. Undoubtedly, performing the more cautious role as a dedicated anti-air unit, it will be very useful to be able to tank another stalker shot.
Historically, landing them has been far too risky though, being a critical anti-air component of the army that is rather fragile for its cost. This is particularly questionable in TvP. I'm not sure if an 8% HP increase will push this over the threshold where they're worth landing in a relatively close battle (in light of the risk of an opponent's followup air/colossus production), rather than remaining relegated as additional cleanup crew after the ground battle has been mostly decided. If it's not Blizzard's intent to significantly change this dynamic, it's a moot point though.
On May 09 2018 21:06 ihatevideogames wrote: I really, really, reaaaaally hate Blizzard's 'don't let them get there' approach to lategame involving terran. Why does SC2 have to be the only RTS game still alive? Why does god hate RTS fans so much and must punish us like this?
Iron Harvest is on its way dude,...just hang on a bit
Ultras are not terrible, they can end a game if you're macroing correctly and rushing hive as you should as zerg, but it is true that there's a timer before terran have too many counters out and with the marauder buff it will probably get worse, we'll see.
On May 09 2018 19:46 hiroshOne wrote: I don't understand how someone with common sense could not understand Raven nerf- just go see game no3 soO vs Cure. It was pure Raven cancer. I felt like vomiting after watching this.
The only beef i have with Blizzard is that they admitted 2 months ago that they know Raven is being imba, but still they decided to not nerf it, leaving this broken units untouched trough whole ro32 of GSL. Korean Zergs send big thanks.
And yet soo managed to win the losers series somehow without the patch... imagine that. He should spend less time practicing and more time crying on the forums this way he'd lose and help ur case.
On May 09 2018 19:46 hiroshOne wrote: I don't understand how someone with common sense could not understand Raven nerf- just go see game no3 soO vs Cure. It was pure Raven cancer. I felt like vomiting after watching this.
The only beef i have with Blizzard is that they admitted 2 months ago that they know Raven is being imba, but still they decided to not nerf it, leaving this broken units untouched trough whole ro32 of GSL. Korean Zergs send big thanks.
And yet soo managed to win the losers series somehow without the patch... imagine that. He should spend less time practicing and more time crying on the forums this way he'd lose and help ur case.
On May 09 2018 19:46 hiroshOne wrote: I don't understand how someone with common sense could not understand Raven nerf- just go see game no3 soO vs Cure. It was pure Raven cancer. I felt like vomiting after watching this.
The only beef i have with Blizzard is that they admitted 2 months ago that they know Raven is being imba, but still they decided to not nerf it, leaving this broken units untouched trough whole ro32 of GSL. Korean Zergs send big thanks.
And yet soo managed to win the losers series somehow without the patch... imagine that. He should spend less time practicing and more time crying on the forums this way he'd lose and help ur case.
A six-time GSL finalist and of the 4 Korean Zergs who have accomplished anything since LotV came out was able to win one Bo3 against a bottom tier Terran player, therefore mech is balanced. Good to know.
On May 09 2018 19:46 hiroshOne wrote: I don't understand how someone with common sense could not understand Raven nerf- just go see game no3 soO vs Cure. It was pure Raven cancer. I felt like vomiting after watching this.
The only beef i have with Blizzard is that they admitted 2 months ago that they know Raven is being imba, but still they decided to not nerf it, leaving this broken units untouched trough whole ro32 of GSL. Korean Zergs send big thanks.
And yet soo managed to win the losers series somehow without the patch... imagine that. He should spend less time practicing and more time crying on the forums this way he'd lose and help ur case.
A six-time GSL finalist and of the 4 Korean Zergs who have accomplished anything since LotV came out was able to win one Bo3 against a bottom tier Terran player, therefore mech is balanced. Good to know.
So if ro32 ends as expected there will be 7 toss 5 terran and 4 zergs in ro16.. everybody who is supposed to be there will be there..and we've seen hardly any mech at all...and yet this is the whine? Really? Lets replay that zanster vs maru series with the new raven and see what would have happened lol..zanster threw a won game vs the best terran in the world with the current raven. Not saying the offsetting buffs wont help or arent a good direction but this isnt a balance patch its a lets make the forum warriors stop crying about ravens patch which we all saw coming..but stop pretending like zerg is fucked in the current the state its a laughable arguement.
Let me know when we see gsl with a couple foreign terran mech players competing with the best zergs in the world then we can rehatch this ok. Good talk.
On May 09 2018 21:20 Loccstana wrote: Instead of nerfing anti armor missile to 15 damage, what Blizzard should do is increase it (and then we doubled it) to 60 damage. I really want to see some pro games with 60 damage AAMs blotting out the sun.
Hey hey hey, don't you dare bad mouth my boy Ketroc, he is pure love and smiles, I'll fight you.
Also I think people miss the point here. HotS marauders will make terran mid game strong enough that all TvP will be 2 base games. When you have a weaker lategame and stronger midgame, why transition at all?
Also how are zergs complaining? Yes ultras are much weaker but hydra/bane into infestor/broodlord will be even stronger. Its not like terran actually needed the marauder there, making ghosts is 100% better.
On May 09 2018 21:06 ihatevideogames wrote: I really, really, reaaaaally hate Blizzard's 'don't let them get there' approach to lategame involving terran. Why does SC2 have to be the only RTS game still alive? Why does god hate RTS fans so much and must punish us like this?
CoH2 and SC2 are alive because lots of people like playing them. The assortment of RTS games released since 2010 have not been good enough for the ever shrinking player base.
Basically, releasing an RTS game after 2010 is like making a Dot-Eating-Maze-Game Arcade Game after 1987 and expecting it to succeed.
Current situation: Terran is really weak in the late game so almost every Terran try to kill Protoss before the late game.
Blizzards solution: Improve Terrans midgame and nerf Terran late game.
Result: Terrans all-ins will be stronger and their late game even worse. Is this really a good idea?
Would it not make more sense to improve Terrans late game or nerf Protoss late game?
Blizzard is taking the idea of asymmetrical design too far in my opinion. It is ok if races are slightly stronger or slightly weaker at different phases in the game but no race should have a huge advantage just because you hit the 12+ minute mark.
Even with the current Raven TvP late game is very Protoss favored. Without Ravens I am not sure if late game TvP will be playable.
I mean everyone will all-in with bio in the midgame since there is no point of going late game now. Is this really the meta Blizzard desires?
On May 10 2018 00:20 MockHamill wrote: I mean everyone will all-in with bio in the midgame since there is no point of going late game now. Is this really the meta Blizzard desires?
can you more carefully define "everyone" in this statement.
On May 10 2018 00:20 MockHamill wrote: I mean everyone will all-in with bio in the midgame since there is no point of going late game now. Is this really the meta Blizzard desires?
can you more carefully define "everyone" in this statement.
100% of the Terran pro players since not trying to end every game in the mid game would not make sense at all when money is on the line if this patch goes live.
I am sad about the Raven change as it was one of the few very fun tools Terran had but that is my opinion... A lot of people even Terrans themselves have to acknowledge it is broken and while it is sad it is being nerfed like this the Raven was a gimmick tool. I think it should be changed to maybe have the old seeker or if we leave it as it is now (Which is fine) then we should look towards buffing other late game tools for Terran. The Viking change is nice vs protoss and Terran but I think another change could be made to it. With this coming patch mech is probably going to be the weaker of the 2 Terran styles in the later game vs Zerg I feel like units such as the liberator and ghost aren't the ones we should look to buff but instead look at units like battlecruiser, thor, and raven. I think the battlecruiser could receive maybe a slight increase to the cast time of yamato or maybe even a buff to its cooldowns. As for the thor I feel like its greatest weakness in the late game against zerg is that it no longer becomes efficient and seems like a weak response to broodlord viper corruptor hydra. Since you need siege tanks to kill the ground army of zerg you manually will need to fire at the ground army to avoid hitting your own thors but even if you move your tanks to focus the ground army the zerg can pull back and the broodlords will trigger siege tank friendly fire to demolish thors. That being said I don't think the thor should counter the broodlord but perhaps something can be done there to increase thors resistance to friendly splash? (its a long stretch I know) Finally the raven. I think blizzard never intended to make the AAM used in the way it is today. It was meant as an actual utility spell. Unfortunately, the spell seems to benefit bio units more so than it does mechanical units. Even with how much armor is reduced the raven had to be massed in order to efficiently clear out the armies of Zerg. Protoss and Zerg both have strong remax mechanics in comparison to Terran. Where the missile could go or what can be done for it I do not know but I think the AAM may be necessary to deal with certain Zerg armies... (possibly even the maxed out skytoss army) Finally the last thing I can think of is to rebuff the mule just slightly (maybe to mine 5-10 minerals more?) I think all of these changes are not needed at all but perhaps 1 or 2 of them should be considered for Terran.
On May 10 2018 00:20 MockHamill wrote: I mean everyone will all-in with bio in the midgame since there is no point of going late game now. Is this really the meta Blizzard desires?
can you more carefully define "everyone" in this statement.
100% of the Terran pro players since not trying to end every game in the mid game would not make sense at all when money is on the line if this patch goes live.
thx for clarifying. and thx for having the balls to make a projection that is testable.
On May 10 2018 00:20 MockHamill wrote: I mean everyone will all-in with bio in the midgame since there is no point of going late game now. Is this really the meta Blizzard desires?
can you more carefully define "everyone" in this statement.
100% of the Terran pro players since not trying to end every game in the mid game would not make sense at all when money is on the line if this patch goes live.
thx for clarifying. and thx for having the balls to make a projection that is testable.
Both Taeja & Polt are not playing anymore, right? (AKA the best lategame Terrans )
Does failing the all-in and staying in the game until lategame loss counts as not going into lategame?
EPT
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