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Community Feedback Update - May 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
248 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-09 12:00:03
May 08 2018 17:43 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Source


Hey everyone,

We appreciate the continued feedback and discussion. After reviewing the most recent round and observing more high-level play, we feel good about continuing with our plans to reduce Anti-Armor Missile’s late-game strength and improve Terran‘s mid-game strength in the TvP matchup.

Raven’s Anti-Armor Missile base damage reduced from 30 to 15.

We considered different options for rebalancing the Anti-Armor Missile, but we settled on damage reduction. This change decreases its late-game damage potential while minimally affecting utility in the mid-game, where it can still be used as a reliable source of armor reduction. Another popular suggestion that we considered was to reduce the speed or acceleration of the missile in order to promote more counter-play via splitting. While we felt this change would have similar effects in the late-game, we thought this would be too much of a hit to its mid-game strength, when more manageable armies allow for easier splitting.

Viking health increased from 125 to 135.

We realize Terrans will take a hit to their late-game strength due to the Anti-Armor Missile change, so we feel this is a good time to provide a buff to the Viking. We will be increasing Viking health to increase its survivability, specifically against area-of-effect abilities like Psionic Storm and Parasitic Bomb, which are commonly used in the late game. In addition, this buff will aid Terrans against Colossi, a unit that has become more popular in TvP over the last few months. This buff doesn’t fully offset the Anti-Armor Missile nerf in the extreme late game, but as we mentioned in the last community update, we’d like to focus more on how Terran’s mid-game power scales into the late-game, which will hopefully grant Terrans with more control over that transition.

Marauder’s number of attacks reduced from 2 to 1.
Damage increased from 5 (10 vs Armored) per attack to 10 (20 vs Armored).
Weapon upgrades give +1 (+2 vs armored) per infantry upgrade, changed from +1 (+1 vs armored) per shot.


Near the end of Heart of the Swarm, Zerg players would struggle when transitioning from Ling/Bane/Muta compositions to Ultralisks because of how effective Marauders were as a counter. At the beginning of Legacy of the Void, we split the Marauder’s attack into two separate shots to encourage Terran players to transition to more specialized units against Hive tech. Throughout LotV, a popular suggestion has been to revert this change because it also had the side effect of reducing the lethality of the Terran army in the mid game against Protoss. We believe this is a good time to do so, since we’re now less worried about strength of Marauders in TvZ. For one, Ultralisks now have one additional starting armor and are thus more resistant to both Marine and Marauder attacks. In addition, Zerg is now less reliant on Ultralisks to stabilize in the late-game, as Hydralisks, Vipers, and Brood Lords are now frequently used for transitioning. As for TvP, we believe this change will improve Terran’s ability to apply more consistent pressure during the mid game. This change will be particularly noticeable against Light Protoss units (Zealots, Adepts) when the Terran is behind in upgrades.

Raven’s Auto-Turret cast range increased from 1 to 2.

When we reintroduced the Raven’s Auto-Turret ability, we reduced the cast range from 3 to 1 in order to provide more of an opportunity for counter-play against Auto-Turret harass. Our feeling now is that we may have reduced the range too much—Auto-Turrets just aren’t being used much for harass. In addition, this cast-range increase allows Ravens to place Turrets out of range of anti-air static defenses, which slightly helps when attempting to break stalemates in the late-game.

Our current plan is to release this balance update, along with the new ladder season, on May 15, but this is subject to change. As always, thank you for your continued feedback and let us know what you think!
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TL+ Member
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
May 08 2018 17:56 GMT
#2
Would have rather seen viking HP be increased to at least 155 and the Seeker missile do even less. It would help vikings against voidrays especially. I'm not sure how much of a difference 125-135 will make.

Old marauders though?! Nice
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
terran4lyfe
Profile Joined December 2013
United States72 Posts
May 08 2018 17:56 GMT
#3
Finally, it'll be good to have the old marauders back. Also it's wouldn't be a blizzard patch without a worthless hp change.
glhf
Caelum93
Profile Joined March 2018
62 Posts
May 08 2018 17:56 GMT
#4
Finally after 5 month my prayers was heard.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55511 Posts
May 08 2018 17:56 GMT
#5
I think all of these changes go in a good direction. What a novelty
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-08 18:01:56
May 08 2018 18:01 GMT
#6
The Viking buff is not enough to be able to trade vs Carriers.
If Vikings got 1 armor as well you could actually use Vikings to counter Carriers.
Carrier+storm still hard counter everything that is Terran and now when Ravens get nerfed into the ground playing TvP late game will be even more unplayable.

But at least all-inning with bio will be more effective.

The Marauder change will help bio but it will also be the end of mech. No one will use mech when you have 20 damage marauders with superior mobility.

Mech is already useless in TvP, after this mech will be even worse.

In TvZ mech will be dead outside of pre hive timing attacks. Ravens were the unit that made TvZ late game possible, just ghosts will not suffice when going up against BroodLord/Corruptor/Vipers.

In TvT bio will be both stronger and more mobile than mech so I think mech will become extinct here as well.

Overall this patch will probably improve Terran win rates. But it will change mech from being viable in 2 matchups to being viable in 0 matchups.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-08 18:05:47
May 08 2018 18:03 GMT
#7
So they went for the marauder change to fix TvP. Their reasoning sounds fine, as is their focus on upgrades as the culprit, but we'll see if it's enough. At least they're changing something. Hopefully it also means fewer cyclones in TvT.

Not a huge fan of the anti-armor change. Not only does it have the potential to becoming the new "interceptor cost", but it also feels like an acknowledgement that they're fine with mass raven design wise (despite their original goal of avoiding mass spellcaster stuff) and are only trying to balance it now. Pragmatically it is the simpler approach to make sure terran has game in the late game, but it is also a compromise that could have consequences in the long term.
Liquid`Ret
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Netherlands4511 Posts
May 08 2018 18:07 GMT
#8
just for the enjoyment of the game i am hoping something will happen at some point to make mutalisks the preferred playstyle again over the hydra

Seems like sensible changes. Will have to see how it holds up in game, however, it seems to me that it won't help terran that much in TvP. I don't like the auto turret change but only because auto turret harass wasn't fun at all.
Team Liquid
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15925 Posts
May 08 2018 18:09 GMT
#9
Not sure what the point is for the half-revert on the Raven nerf. In lategame it will be useless anyway except for the armor reduction since you will never have the firepower to nuke armies.
Overall I'm quite happy with the changes but would've liked an even bigger Viking buff.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
May 08 2018 18:11 GMT
#10
On May 09 2018 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
Not sure what the point is for the half-revert on the Raven nerf. In lategame it will be useless anyway except for the armor reduction since you will never have the firepower to nuke armies.
Overall I'm quite happy with the changes but would've liked an even bigger Viking buff.

The combination of AAM missile and vikings being buffed should help terran late game.

Although I still think that 10HP isn't enough for this to work
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15925 Posts
May 08 2018 18:11 GMT
#11
On May 09 2018 02:56 terran4lyfe wrote:
Finally, it'll be good to have the old marauders back. Also it's wouldn't be a blizzard patch without a worthless hp change.

Worthless HP change like the Hydra or Adept hp changes were
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
xelnaga_empire
Profile Joined March 2012
627 Posts
May 08 2018 18:12 GMT
#12
How much will Terran late game suffer because of the Anti Armor missile nerf? How much will the Viking buff and Auto Turret buff compensate for the Anti Armor missile nerf?
ArtyK
Profile Joined June 2011
France3143 Posts
May 08 2018 18:16 GMT
#13
But what about sensor towers
Sup dood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ KiWiKaKi | SLush | uThermal | PtitDrogo | SortOf | Clem ~ "I told my mom she should vote for me in Nation Wars, she said 'I dunno, I kinda want Finland to win'" – Luolis ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NScWV9h8k#t=1h01m
TL+ Member
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15925 Posts
May 08 2018 18:19 GMT
#14
On May 09 2018 03:16 ArtyK wrote:
But what about sensor towers

Before that supply depot lift-off must be removed.
That's the bigger problem right now.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
MrWayne
Profile Joined December 2016
219 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-08 18:22:59
May 08 2018 18:21 GMT
#15
good update overall!
Personally, I would rather have seen a buff for the Widow Mine than for the Marauder, because Roach / Ravager and Ultralisk play will become very difficult.

I'm also not sure if the AAM dmg-nerf is enough to stop mass raven. We will see, maybe they need to reduce the dmg even further or make the radius smaller.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 08 2018 18:21 GMT
#16
Nice to see Blizzard really want to make mech non viable.
When will they go all-in on that and make factory an unique building ?

The raven nerf / viking buff duo is a joke. They are removing the only thing that allows a terran army to fight compositions like tempest / carrier / HT & infestor / BL / viper head-on, and essentially giving nothing to make up for it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
xelnaga_empire
Profile Joined March 2012
627 Posts
May 08 2018 18:25 GMT
#17
On May 09 2018 03:21 Lyyna wrote:
Nice to see Blizzard really want to make mech non viable.
When will they go all-in on that and make factory an unique building ?

The raven nerf / viking buff duo is a joke. They are removing the only thing that allows a terran army to fight compositions like tempest / carrier / HT & infestor / BL / viper head-on, and essentially giving nothing to make up for it.



They are buffing Viking, Auto Turret, and Marauder. Are these buffs enough to offset the Anti Armor Missile nerf?
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
May 08 2018 18:28 GMT
#18
On May 09 2018 03:25 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2018 03:21 Lyyna wrote:
Nice to see Blizzard really want to make mech non viable.
When will they go all-in on that and make factory an unique building ?

The raven nerf / viking buff duo is a joke. They are removing the only thing that allows a terran army to fight compositions like tempest / carrier / HT & infestor / BL / viper head-on, and essentially giving nothing to make up for it.



They are buffing Viking, Auto Turret, and Marauder. Are these buffs enough to offset the Anti Armor Missile nerf?

None of these are factory units so it doesn't count.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-08 18:32:55
May 08 2018 18:30 GMT
#19
On May 09 2018 03:25 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2018 03:21 Lyyna wrote:
Nice to see Blizzard really want to make mech non viable.
When will they go all-in on that and make factory an unique building ?

The raven nerf / viking buff duo is a joke. They are removing the only thing that allows a terran army to fight compositions like tempest / carrier / HT & infestor / BL / viper head-on, and essentially giving nothing to make up for it.



They are buffing Viking, Auto Turret, and Marauder. Are these buffs enough to offset the Anti Armor Missile nerf?

No, because the lategame is all about dealing a ton of damage and being efficient. These changes do nothing to help avoid getting shredded by storm / PB, and they remove the only good terran AOE.
Thors have good damage, but their size and miserable AI (hi broodlords) makes them awful in large fights.
Vikings are awful compared to tempests & corr alone, and are pretty much useless once PB / storm hits the field.
With ravens, the zerg was kept honest because he could not just rush into the vikings and kill them all at close range, and protoss had to play safe around the terran instead of smashing him for 2 screens away with tempests.


If anything, it has more to do with tempest & vipers being retarded units that should never have been put into a RTS,.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
ArtyK
Profile Joined June 2011
France3143 Posts
May 08 2018 18:31 GMT
#20
On May 09 2018 03:19 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2018 03:16 ArtyK wrote:
But what about sensor towers

Before that supply depot lift-off must be removed.
That's the bigger problem right now.


Agreed.
Sup dood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ KiWiKaKi | SLush | uThermal | PtitDrogo | SortOf | Clem ~ "I told my mom she should vote for me in Nation Wars, she said 'I dunno, I kinda want Finland to win'" – Luolis ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NScWV9h8k#t=1h01m
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