That is a good thing they are reverting marauders.

Regarding vikings I do think they should have more life points, only 10 more is not enough, 150 instead of 135 would be better.

bObA

France300 Posts

May 09 2018 18:02 GMT

#122

But not sure about nerfing Ravens.
Of course vikings should be not buffed if Ravens would not nerf.

If Ravens are no more effective enough, Zergs would kill easily mass vikings with infestators and fungal and some Corruptors hits.
Ravens help to avoid mass fungal and to lose all his vikings so easily.
So nerfing them would be a disaster.
I think Zergs have to learn to split as Terran use to do for years and we are starting to see Zerg players splitting their units.
Not very easy for Broodlords, but even when it is easy like vikings, you have to split the units before the attack to avoid mass fungal.

deacon.frost

Czech Republic12130 Posts

May 09 2018 18:18 GMT

#123

First they could have tried to not stuck the damage. If the intended use is the debuff, that would do.

FrkFrJss

Canada1206 Posts

May 09 2018 18:43 GMT

#124

Not stacking damage is a much harsher nerf than 15 stacking damage though.

hiroshOne

Poland425 Posts

May 09 2018 21:39 GMT

#125

First of all its not Ravens but Ghosts are to defend versus mass funghal. They're not nerfing ghosts but cancer unit with spammable and stackable burst damage. And drop those myths about splitting versus Anti Armour Missile. It was possible vs old Seeker Missile but not this. It's hits almost instant. So let's get back to instant funghal growths and try to split vs that.

Jerom

Netherlands588 Posts

May 09 2018 21:47 GMT

#126

I'd say Terran gets buffed against protoss overall, by quite the margin even. Those zealots might actually take some damage from marauders again. Against the sky deathball it's not great to lose ravens, but terran was probably favored near the super end. Viking buff will make it easier to get there so that's probably a slight win for terran aswell. This was very deserved, although I do think it's possible protoss just continues to dominate the midgame and early lategame so much that these hardly matter.

Against zerg, I started to feel like the lategame was over the top while the midgame has been feeling weak. Basically apart from an early push and drops, terran can't actually move out anymore. They just turtle raven ghost, but once you get there Zerg can't really attack anymore either. Marauder buff probably means the midgame is a bit more reliable; you could probably start mixing in marauders against ling bane hydra and be safer against the early ultras. It's hard to guess how much the raven nerf will affect things; it might just be that you cant really do the raven ghost turtle. I hope this still remains the style - its actually pretty cool - but just that zerg can be a little bit more cost effective in the heads up fight.

I think these are steps in the right direction at the very least, and I hope they turn out well.

deacon.frost

Czech Republic12130 Posts

May 09 2018 22:34 GMT

#127

On May 10 2018 03:43 FrkFrJss wrote:
Not stacking damage is a much harsher nerf than 15 stacking damage though.

Well then they could have upped the damage.

Currently they're going wrong way IMO. Stackable AoE damage in this game is wrong. Many units tend to hug - not only air units. And stackable AoE on AIR caster is wrong on a different level. If I have a stackable storm - templars are being blocked by other units(or I need to unload them from the prism, but only 4 get in and I cannot unload all of them at once). But in the air no unint is blocked by others and, well, you have no transport for air units(outside of some teleports and landed viking

). So you can clump all your casters together and cast stackable damage much faster than with land casters.

But hey, that's just my view on this matter, what do I know, I just saw a pro player do this(the fact I do this doesn't matter, I am a noob

)

batatm

Israel116 Posts

May 09 2018 22:41 GMT

#128

On May 10 2018 03:02 bObA wrote:
But not sure about nerfing Ravens.
Of course vikings should be not buffed if Ravens would not nerf.

If Ravens are no more effective enough, Zergs would kill easily mass vikings with infestators and fungal and some Corruptors hits.
Ravens help to avoid mass fungal and to lose all his vikings so easily.
So nerfing them would be a disaster.
I think Zergs have to learn to split as Terran use to do for years and we are starting to see Zerg players splitting their units.
Not very easy for Broodlords, but even when it is easy like vikings, you have to split the units before the attack to avoid mass fungal.

mass fungal?? that's a fine way of suiciding...
here's a suggestion:
you can keep your raven as it is, no nerf whatsoever, BUT! "revert" (such a nice word) fungal in 1 of 3 ways:
1) allow infestors to cast it while borrowed AGAIN
2) make it an instant spell (instead of a projectile) AGAIN
3) return the functionality to stun (instead of slow) AGAIN
seriously, whining about fungal in it's current form is laughable!

ihatevideogames

570 Posts

May 09 2018 23:10 GMT

#129

Seriously, non-unironically, their marketing department must be telling them to not give terran a late game in order to have 'action packed' pro games.

SHODAN

United Kingdom1159 Posts

May 09 2018 23:17 GMT

#130

the question is, how much of the ghost's strength is afforded by the threat of raven missiles? the presence of ravens forced zerg players to babysit their units real carefully... without this distraction, ghosts will not be able to slip by so easily. without this threat, zerg will be able to devote their attention to more advantageous things around the map. I predict that ghosts won't be anywhere near as effective as they are now, even if the ghost itself is unchanged.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17666 Posts

May 10 2018 00:28 GMT

#131

On May 10 2018 07:34 deacon.frost wrote:
Stackable AoE damage in this game is wrong. Many units tend to hug - not only air units. And stackable AoE on AIR caster is wrong on a different level. If I have a stackable storm - templars are being blocked by other units(or I need to unload them from the prism, but only 4 get in and I cannot unload all of them at once). But in the air no unint is blocked by others and, well, you have no transport for air units(outside of some teleports and landed viking

). So you can clump all your casters together and cast stackable damage much faster than with land casters.

stackable AoE spell damage from an Air Unit is BS.

perhaps make basic Terran units basic attacks slightly stronger on their 3rd upgrade maybe?

Geo.Rion

7377 Posts

May 10 2018 06:36 GMT

#132

The raven nerf is definitely a needed change from the e-sport perspective, raven-ghost-planetary turtle has become the go to TvZ lategame, as many of us have predicted and it was painful to watch after the first couple of games.

From a personal point of view, i still have never lost to mass raven to this date in ZvT as a low masters player, but i did lose a lot to normal terran compositions, including mass vikings to counter the hive tech flyers (BL+viper). That just received a buff, so that s sad for me.

Still, in 3v3 and 4v4 mass ravens have been very annoying, not that it matters a lot.

egrimm

Poland1201 Posts

May 10 2018 07:59 GMT

#133

Overall sensible changes. Let's see how the play out.
However I'd like more to have Raven's AAM made unstackable instead of dmg nerf as some people in thread already suggested.
If it becomes too weak then we might tweak the dmg.

omop

46 Posts

May 10 2018 08:54 GMT

#134

Good patch, i like.
I think it isn't anymore cost effective to mass raven with that aa missile nerf. I don't like random rules: why a exploding missile doesn't too stackable dmg? if the dmg nerf isn't enough, make raven cost 3 supply.

Well, hell i think all casters should cost at least 3 supply so you can't make excessive amounts of them. I think even hts should cost 3 supply (and archons 4) so protoss can't just have as many storms as possible and then morph them to archons, usually without a penalty.

Taco87

Norway72 Posts

May 10 2018 09:20 GMT

#135

Why reduce the anti armor missle dmg? Goodbye any hope for Terran late game, see you after the Blizzcon patch !

stilt

France2755 Posts

May 10 2018 10:30 GMT

#136

On May 10 2018 18:20 Taco87 wrote:
Why reduce the anti armor missle dmg? Goodbye any hope for Terran late game, see you after the Blizzcon patch !

Because a spell which causes a deficit of cost efficienty around 30-40% for the zerg might no be the best idea for balance?
And is a joke design wise.
See you

Tyrhanius

France947 Posts

May 10 2018 10:34 GMT

#137

You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.

This marauder revert is game breaking.

Charoisaur

Germany16080 Posts

May 10 2018 11:23 GMT

#138

On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.

This marauder revert is game breaking.

What? The Marauder revert makes them worse against buildings.

Caelum93

62 Posts

May 10 2018 12:13 GMT

#139

Gamebreaking like Protoss for sure...Are you serious?

Deleted User 132135

702 Posts

May 10 2018 14:02 GMT

#140

This should at the very least be followed up by +1 ultralisk base armor and some protoss air nerfs: Either transition to carriers needs to be slowed down or carriers themselves require the nerf.