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What I find really interesting is that the race that struggles the most in the late game is nerfed even more in the late game.
Raven nerf makes sense but at least combine it with a Carrier nerf and a Viper nerf to balance things out.
If this patch goes through every game will be about sniping the Protoss third. If you succeed you win, if you fail you lose.
I would rather see a patch like this:
- Increase the cost of shield batteries to 150 minerals
- Carrier maximum number of interceptors changed from 8 to 6
- Raven seeker missile cost changed to 100 energy.
- Raven supply changed from 2 to 3.
- Vipers can no longer abduct massive units.
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On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.
This marauder revert is game breaking.
Dude I know you are a known zerg whiner but you don't even try to know what you are talking about.
Marauders with 0 upgrades do 1 more damage vs buildings yes.
Marauders with +1 get +1(+2) over 2x(+1(+1)) double shot Marauders do, doing the math +1+2-1=2 and +2+2-2=2. Both Marauders deal the same damage.
Once you keep going up HotS Marauders deal less damage because while double shot once got an extra attack upgrade zerg buildings CAN'T upgrade their armor, so HotS Marauders deal 1 less damage at +2 and 2 less damage at +3.
It is a buff for buildings against Marauders, the only exceptions being terrans with building armour and protoss with shield upgrades
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On May 10 2018 23:29 MockHamill wrote:
What I find really interesting is that the race that struggles the most in the late game is nerfed even more in the late game.
Raven nerf makes sense but at least combine it with a Carrier nerf and a Viper nerf to balance things out.
If this patch goes through every game will be about sniping the Protoss third. If you succeed you win, if you fail you lose.
I would rather see a patch like this:
- Increase the cost of shield batteries to 150 minerals
- Carrier maximum number of interceptors changed from 8 to 6
- Raven seeker missile cost changed to 100 energy.
- Raven supply changed from 2 to 3.
- Vipers can no longer abduct massive units.
Uhm, shield battery change affects PvZ early/mid game and not in a funny way. I wouldn't say Protoss needs a nerf in that department.
Edit> Like it's not a huge nerf IMO, but some all-ins can be more lethal. It's the price of removal MSC and the whole Protoss design fiasco
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On May 10 2018 23:02 LSN wrote:
This should at the very least be followed up by +1 ultralisk base armor and some protoss air nerfs: Either transition to carriers needs to be slowed down or carriers themselves require the nerf.
But zerg midgame and early hive completely destroys terran? There's no way to beat ultras/broodlords with marines and marauders right now, you have to turtle into ghost raven.
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On May 10 2018 23:31 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.
This marauder revert is game breaking. Dude I know you are a known zerg whiner but you don't even try to know what you are talking about. Marauders with 0 upgrades do 1 more damage vs buildings yes. Marauders with +1 get +1(+2) over 2x(+1(+1)) double shot Marauders do, doing the math +1+2-1=2 and +2+2-2=2. Both Marauders deal the same damage. Once you keep going up HotS Marauders deal less damage because while double shot once got an extra attack upgrade zerg buildings CAN'T upgrade their armor, so HotS Marauders deal 1 less damage at +2 and 2 less damage at +3. It is a buff for buildings against Marauders, the only exceptions being terrans with building armour and protoss with shield upgrades
Current Marauders only gain +1 per upgrade, even against armored. So the reverted Marauder will do an additional 1 damage against zerg and terran buildings, at all upgrade levels.
But of all the things to complain about, that seems silly.
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Think it's fair enough to nerf Raven. And they should redesign it again (someday). There are many options and approaches to make it good. Like vessels design from broodwar. Mmmm.
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On May 10 2018 23:29 MockHamill wrote:
What I find really interesting is that the race that struggles the most in the late game is nerfed even more in the late game.
Raven nerf makes sense but at least combine it with a Carrier nerf and a Viper nerf to balance things out.
If this patch goes through every game will be about sniping the Protoss third. If you succeed you win, if you fail you lose.
I would rather see a patch like this:
- Increase the cost of shield batteries to 150 minerals
- Carrier maximum number of interceptors changed from 8 to 6
- Raven seeker missile cost changed to 100 energy.
- Raven supply changed from 2 to 3.
- Vipers can no longer abduct massive units.
Why would you nerf shield batteries? They have nothing to do with late game and the last thing anybody should be doing is nerfing Protoss early game. Personally I think a lot of Terrans complaining this isn't enough are drastically underestimating the effect of how a stronger midgame will naturally lead to a stronger late game without any specific changes to late game units. For a one patch this is more than enough changes to a single race.
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On May 11 2018 05:10 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2018 23:31 Lexender wrote:On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.
This marauder revert is game breaking. Dude I know you are a known zerg whiner but you don't even try to know what you are talking about. Marauders with 0 upgrades do 1 more damage vs buildings yes. Marauders with +1 get +1(+2) over 2x(+1(+1)) double shot Marauders do, doing the math +1+2-1=2 and +2+2-2=2. Both Marauders deal the same damage. Once you keep going up HotS Marauders deal less damage because while double shot once got an extra attack upgrade zerg buildings CAN'T upgrade their armor, so HotS Marauders deal 1 less damage at +2 and 2 less damage at +3. It is a buff for buildings against Marauders, the only exceptions being terrans with building armour and protoss with shield upgrades Current Marauders only gain +1 per upgrade, even against armored. So the reverted Marauder will do an additional 1 damage against zerg and terran buildings, at all upgrade levels. But of all the things to complain about, that seems silly.
So basically new Marauder will get +1 dmg more right?. It's +3 dmg with +3 attack upgrade. 10 marauders will hit Ultralisk with 30 dmg more than now per shot. Add stim to that and u'll see that Ultralisk will be trash vs 1 tier unit. Your post is bs dude- it presents non existent situation of 1 marauder against ultralisk.
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Couple of things must be done to make mech viable in TVP:
1. Siege tank siege range must be increased from 13 to 17. Maps are too large to effective use the siege tank as intended as a zoning tool. It really easy for Protoss to abuse Terran by forcing sieges/unsieges.
2. Battlecruiser absolutely needs to be buffed. Unit is trash right now and needs a range increase and moving shot. This make the battlecruiser actually microable.
3. The cooldown on blink really needs to be increased. One of the most infuriating things is stalkers blinking into main, wrecking tech labs and blinking out with absolute zero risk. It is very hard to catch blink stalkers with stimmed bio, pretty much impossible with mech.
4. Tempest needs a range nerf, mass tempest with HT support beats every mech composition right now. Nerf the air range to 12.
5. Planetaries die like flies to units like immortals also they cannot protect mineral line against range units. Buff PF to 2000 hp, increase range to 8.
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On May 11 2018 19:18 Loccstana wrote:
Couple of things must be done to make mech viable in TVP:
1. Siege tank siege range must be increased from 13 to 17. Maps are too large to effective use the siege tank as intended as a zoning tool. It really easy for Protoss to abuse Terran by forcing sieges/unsieges.
2. Battlecruiser absolutely needs to be buffed. Unit is trash right now and needs a range increase and moving shot. This make the battlecruiser actually microable.
3. The cooldown on blink really needs to be increased. One of the most infuriating things is stalkers blinking into main, wrecking tech labs and blinking out with absolute zero risk. It is very hard to catch blink stalkers with stimmed bio, pretty much impossible with mech.
4. Tempest needs a range nerf, mass tempest with HT support beats every mech composition right now. Nerf the air range to 12.
5. Planetaries die like flies to units like immortals also they cannot protect mineral line against range units. Buff PF to 2000 hp, increase range to 8.
What do you think would happen in TvZ with that kind of ridiculous changes? Do you even think twice before posting something like that?
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On May 11 2018 19:18 Loccstana wrote:
5. Planetaries die like flies to units like immortals also they cannot protect mineral line against range units. Buff PF to 2000 hp, increase range to 8.
I think we need air attack with a reasonable radius of AOE on PF as well.
This would allow for PF rushes against carrier users.
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Factories should generate income.
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On May 11 2018 17:08 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 05:10 Athenau wrote:On May 10 2018 23:31 Lexender wrote:On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.
This marauder revert is game breaking. Dude I know you are a known zerg whiner but you don't even try to know what you are talking about. Marauders with 0 upgrades do 1 more damage vs buildings yes. Marauders with +1 get +1(+2) over 2x(+1(+1)) double shot Marauders do, doing the math +1+2-1=2 and +2+2-2=2. Both Marauders deal the same damage. Once you keep going up HotS Marauders deal less damage because while double shot once got an extra attack upgrade zerg buildings CAN'T upgrade their armor, so HotS Marauders deal 1 less damage at +2 and 2 less damage at +3. It is a buff for buildings against Marauders, the only exceptions being terrans with building armour and protoss with shield upgrades Current Marauders only gain +1 per upgrade, even against armored. So the reverted Marauder will do an additional 1 damage against zerg and terran buildings, at all upgrade levels. But of all the things to complain about, that seems silly. So basically new Marauder will get +1 dmg more right?. It's +3 dmg with +3 attack upgrade. 10 marauders will hit Ultralisk with 30 dmg more than now per shot. Add stim to that and u'll see that Ultralisk will be trash vs 1 tier unit. Your post is bs dude- it presents non existent situation of 1 marauder against ultralisk.
What part of "against zerg and terran buildings" do you not understand?
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On May 11 2018 20:18 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 17:08 hiroshOne wrote:On May 11 2018 05:10 Athenau wrote:On May 10 2018 23:31 Lexender wrote:On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.
This marauder revert is game breaking. Dude I know you are a known zerg whiner but you don't even try to know what you are talking about. Marauders with 0 upgrades do 1 more damage vs buildings yes. Marauders with +1 get +1(+2) over 2x(+1(+1)) double shot Marauders do, doing the math +1+2-1=2 and +2+2-2=2. Both Marauders deal the same damage. Once you keep going up HotS Marauders deal less damage because while double shot once got an extra attack upgrade zerg buildings CAN'T upgrade their armor, so HotS Marauders deal 1 less damage at +2 and 2 less damage at +3. It is a buff for buildings against Marauders, the only exceptions being terrans with building armour and protoss with shield upgrades Current Marauders only gain +1 per upgrade, even against armored. So the reverted Marauder will do an additional 1 damage against zerg and terran buildings, at all upgrade levels. But of all the things to complain about, that seems silly. So basically new Marauder will get +1 dmg more right?. It's +3 dmg with +3 attack upgrade. 10 marauders will hit Ultralisk with 30 dmg more than now per shot. Add stim to that and u'll see that Ultralisk will be trash vs 1 tier unit. Your post is bs dude- it presents non existent situation of 1 marauder against ultralisk. What part of "against zerg and terran buildings" do you not understand?
And which part about "Ultralisk will be trash unit if that change is live" u don't understand? For me it's silly to make an example from literally one marauder, when it's clearly not even close to real deal, where u got lots of them. In my case, those numbers say clearly that this change is demolishing for ZvT in its current form. I'm not arguing about PvT, because i'm aware how it helps Terran in this case, but they should buff something in Zerg arsenal to help in midgame vs stronger BIO again.
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On May 11 2018 21:17 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 20:18 Athenau wrote:On May 11 2018 17:08 hiroshOne wrote:On May 11 2018 05:10 Athenau wrote:On May 10 2018 23:31 Lexender wrote:On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.
This marauder revert is game breaking. Dude I know you are a known zerg whiner but you don't even try to know what you are talking about. Marauders with 0 upgrades do 1 more damage vs buildings yes. Marauders with +1 get +1(+2) over 2x(+1(+1)) double shot Marauders do, doing the math +1+2-1=2 and +2+2-2=2. Both Marauders deal the same damage. Once you keep going up HotS Marauders deal less damage because while double shot once got an extra attack upgrade zerg buildings CAN'T upgrade their armor, so HotS Marauders deal 1 less damage at +2 and 2 less damage at +3. It is a buff for buildings against Marauders, the only exceptions being terrans with building armour and protoss with shield upgrades Current Marauders only gain +1 per upgrade, even against armored. So the reverted Marauder will do an additional 1 damage against zerg and terran buildings, at all upgrade levels. But of all the things to complain about, that seems silly. So basically new Marauder will get +1 dmg more right?. It's +3 dmg with +3 attack upgrade. 10 marauders will hit Ultralisk with 30 dmg more than now per shot. Add stim to that and u'll see that Ultralisk will be trash vs 1 tier unit. Your post is bs dude- it presents non existent situation of 1 marauder against ultralisk. What part of "against zerg and terran buildings" do you not understand? And which part about "Ultralisk will be trash unit if that change is live" u don't understand? For me it's silly to make an example from literally one marauder, when it's clearly not even close to real deal, where u got lots of them. In my case, those numbers say clearly that this change is demolishing for ZvT in its current form. I'm not arguing about PvT, because i'm aware how it helps Terran in this case, but they should buff something in Zerg arsenal to help in midgame vs stronger BIO again.
So the answer was "everything". You didn't understand a single word of that post, nor did you even bother to look at what I was responding to.
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On May 11 2018 21:21 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 21:17 hiroshOne wrote:On May 11 2018 20:18 Athenau wrote:On May 11 2018 17:08 hiroshOne wrote:On May 11 2018 05:10 Athenau wrote:On May 10 2018 23:31 Lexender wrote:On May 10 2018 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
You should at least buffs hatch hp/armor they already die too fast, with a marauder buff no way you can play on more than 5bases vs bio.
This marauder revert is game breaking. Dude I know you are a known zerg whiner but you don't even try to know what you are talking about. Marauders with 0 upgrades do 1 more damage vs buildings yes. Marauders with +1 get +1(+2) over 2x(+1(+1)) double shot Marauders do, doing the math +1+2-1=2 and +2+2-2=2. Both Marauders deal the same damage. Once you keep going up HotS Marauders deal less damage because while double shot once got an extra attack upgrade zerg buildings CAN'T upgrade their armor, so HotS Marauders deal 1 less damage at +2 and 2 less damage at +3. It is a buff for buildings against Marauders, the only exceptions being terrans with building armour and protoss with shield upgrades Current Marauders only gain +1 per upgrade, even against armored. So the reverted Marauder will do an additional 1 damage against zerg and terran buildings, at all upgrade levels. But of all the things to complain about, that seems silly. So basically new Marauder will get +1 dmg more right?. It's +3 dmg with +3 attack upgrade. 10 marauders will hit Ultralisk with 30 dmg more than now per shot. Add stim to that and u'll see that Ultralisk will be trash vs 1 tier unit. Your post is bs dude- it presents non existent situation of 1 marauder against ultralisk. What part of "against zerg and terran buildings" do you not understand? And which part about "Ultralisk will be trash unit if that change is live" u don't understand? For me it's silly to make an example from literally one marauder, when it's clearly not even close to real deal, where u got lots of them. In my case, those numbers say clearly that this change is demolishing for ZvT in its current form. I'm not arguing about PvT, because i'm aware how it helps Terran in this case, but they should buff something in Zerg arsenal to help in midgame vs stronger BIO again. So the answer was "everything". You didn't understand a single word of that post, nor did you even bother to look at what I was responding to.
Noooo feed the troll lolol..this guy is a lunatic doesnt matter what you say he will cry ..the life for zerg is so unfair!
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On May 11 2018 20:05 bela.mervado wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 19:18 Loccstana wrote:
5. Planetaries die like flies to units like immortals also they cannot protect mineral line against range units. Buff PF to 2000 hp, increase range to 8. I think we need air attack with a reasonable radius of AOE on PF as well. This would allow for PF rushes against carrier users.
Those wouldn't be 'real' rushes would they...
Rather - on top of getting AoE Anti-Air - Planetaries should uproot and move with the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow. And 30% faster than that if stimmed.
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On May 11 2018 23:24 Aiobhill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 20:05 bela.mervado wrote:On May 11 2018 19:18 Loccstana wrote:
5. Planetaries die like flies to units like immortals also they cannot protect mineral line against range units. Buff PF to 2000 hp, increase range to 8. I think we need air attack with a reasonable radius of AOE on PF as well. This would allow for PF rushes against carrier users. Those wouldn't be 'real' rushes would they... Rather - on top of getting AoE Anti-Air - Planetaries should uproot and move with the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow. And 30% faster than that if stimmed.
Do you think a PF ability to jump up cliffs might be necessary?
Fusion core 150/150/79 research, so it will be balanced.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On May 11 2018 23:48 bela.mervado wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 23:24 Aiobhill wrote:On May 11 2018 20:05 bela.mervado wrote:On May 11 2018 19:18 Loccstana wrote:
5. Planetaries die like flies to units like immortals also they cannot protect mineral line against range units. Buff PF to 2000 hp, increase range to 8. I think we need air attack with a reasonable radius of AOE on PF as well. This would allow for PF rushes against carrier users. Those wouldn't be 'real' rushes would they... Rather - on top of getting AoE Anti-Air - Planetaries should uproot and move with the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow. And 30% faster than that if stimmed. Do you think a PF ability to jump up cliffs might be necessary? Fusion core 150/150/79 research, so it will be balanced.
How about a research from ghost building that would gave them a tactical nukes for defense if a ghost sits inside?
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On May 11 2018 19:18 Loccstana wrote:
Couple of things must be done to make mech viable in TVP:
1. Siege tank siege range must be increased from 13 to 17. Maps are too large to effective use the siege tank as intended as a zoning tool. It really easy for Protoss to abuse Terran by forcing sieges/unsieges.
2. Battlecruiser absolutely needs to be buffed. Unit is trash right now and needs a range increase and moving shot. This make the battlecruiser actually microable.
3. The cooldown on blink really needs to be increased. One of the most infuriating things is stalkers blinking into main, wrecking tech labs and blinking out with absolute zero risk. It is very hard to catch blink stalkers with stimmed bio, pretty much impossible with mech.
4. Tempest needs a range nerf, mass tempest with HT support beats every mech composition right now. Nerf the air range to 12.
5. Planetaries die like flies to units like immortals also they cannot protect mineral line against range units. Buff PF to 2000 hp, increase range to 8.
There's no way these can be serious suggestions right? Quite apart from the fact that none of them except the first one matter since one-base/two-base tank timings are now unbeatable, the mapmaking community would probably commit mass suicide rather than having to deal with 17 range tanks.
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EPT
