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On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote:
So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time.
Wait for the changes after blizzcon..
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On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare.
Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare?
No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know.
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On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know.
Come on. Dont argue in bad faith. Noone in their right mind can argue that banning the best players in the world from entering a tournament does not make winning said tournament less impressive than if the playing field were more competitive. Which makes WCS Welfare an appropriate term, albeit frowned upon by some people who like to pretend Koreans dont exist.
That said, personally I enjoyed the games and im looking forward to see how well Neeb will fare at Blizzcon.
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On September 11 2017 19:59 314159271828 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know. Come on. Dont argue in bad faith. Noone in their right mind can argue that banning the best players in the world from entering a tournament does not make winning said tournament less impressive than if the playing field were more competitive. Which makes WCS Welfare an appropriate term, albeit frowned upon by some people who like to pretend Koreans dont exist. That said, personally I enjoyed the games and im looking forward to see how well Neeb will fare at Blizzcon.
Not arguing in bad faith. From my perspective you are the ones angling things in bad faith.
No one is arguing that that it doesn't make the wins less impressive, thats not what the Word welfare means though. Objectively using logic the term is simply wrong, IUnless you are very biased its obvious that the term is both malicious and wrong.
You use which ever terms and slangs you want but don't even try to argue that its also correct. Its like Calling someone a ***** and being both malicous and wrong at the same time, the person is not that and the Word is takes out of its context and used in a bad way.
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welfare circuit series. i support regionlocking neeb now there is no difference between him and koreans other than skin color.
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This was a sad final. Don't get me wrong, Neeb is great and obviousely is the best foreigner atm, but 4-0? Please. It wasn't even exciting apart from the first game when Snute managed to snuck those lings in Neebs main.
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On September 11 2017 20:39 QzYSc2 wrote:
welfare circuit series. i support regionlocking neeb now there is no difference between him and koreans other than skin color.
Most of the Koreans (beside Dark) have skin color no less white than Neeb, what are you taking about ? I would call it ethnicity rather than skin color.
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it was a figure of speech. anyways my point still stands. they are too good? ban them like the rest of the koreans.
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On September 11 2017 20:26 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 19:59 314159271828 wrote:On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know. Come on. Dont argue in bad faith. Noone in their right mind can argue that banning the best players in the world from entering a tournament does not make winning said tournament less impressive than if the playing field were more competitive. Which makes WCS Welfare an appropriate term, albeit frowned upon by some people who like to pretend Koreans dont exist. That said, personally I enjoyed the games and im looking forward to see how well Neeb will fare at Blizzcon. Not arguing in bad faith. From my perspective you are the ones angling things in bad faith. No one is arguing that that it doesn't make the wins less impressive, thats not what the Word welfare means though. Objectively using logic the term is simply wrong, IUnless you are very biased its obvious that the term is both malicious and wrong. You use which ever terms and slangs you want but don't even try to argue that its also correct. Its like Calling someone a ***** and being both malicous and wrong at the same time, the person is not that and the Word is takes out of its context and used in a bad way.
Isn't the point of the current system banning Koreans from entering certain tournaments to give hand-outs to people who are deemed unable to motivate themselves if they knew they were going to play the best players?
In what world is that objectively not a system of welfare?
You can like the current system or not, but arguing against calling it welfare seems disingenous at worst and ignorant at best.
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Why do Koreans get their own server/offline tournaments with blizzard money while the rest of the world gets lumped into one circuit. To be totally fair, we should remove GSL and SSL, and integrate the Koreans into WCS by having them take 1/3 of the 16 online qualifier spots in their own region locked online qualifier and the offline circuits will rotate between America, Europe, and Asia/Korea where 16/32 spots are up for grabs with no region lock. Or we can have global qualifiers with zero region lock but you have to get rid of GSL and SSL to be fair.
Of course, Koreans or anyone else are free to fork up their own money to run their own league with whatever eligibility they want.
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this guy is the single reason why blizzard doesnt nerft zerg or buff protoss
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On September 11 2017 22:09 argonautdice wrote:
Why do Koreans get their own server/offline tournaments with blizzard money while the rest of the world gets lumped into one circuit. To be totally fair, we should remove GSL and SSL, and integrate the Koreans into WCS by having them take 1/3 of the 16 online qualifier spots in their own region locked online qualifier and the offline circuits will rotate between America, Europe, and Asia/Korea where 16/32 spots are up for grabs with no region lock. Or we can have global qualifiers with zero region lock but you have to get rid of GSL and SSL to be fair.
Of course, Koreans or anyone else are free to fork up their own money to run their own league with whatever eligibility they want.
you are talking like there are companies like AfreecaTV, Hot6, JinAir outside of Korea. The Korean host the tournaments themselves, they invest in these tournaments and wonderfully they open them for everyone around the world.
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On September 11 2017 21:49 314159271828 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 20:26 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 11 2017 19:59 314159271828 wrote:On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know. Come on. Dont argue in bad faith. Noone in their right mind can argue that banning the best players in the world from entering a tournament does not make winning said tournament less impressive than if the playing field were more competitive. Which makes WCS Welfare an appropriate term, albeit frowned upon by some people who like to pretend Koreans dont exist. That said, personally I enjoyed the games and im looking forward to see how well Neeb will fare at Blizzcon. Not arguing in bad faith. From my perspective you are the ones angling things in bad faith. No one is arguing that that it doesn't make the wins less impressive, thats not what the Word welfare means though. Objectively using logic the term is simply wrong, IUnless you are very biased its obvious that the term is both malicious and wrong. You use which ever terms and slangs you want but don't even try to argue that its also correct. Its like Calling someone a ***** and being both malicous and wrong at the same time, the person is not that and the Word is takes out of its context and used in a bad way. Isn't the point of the current system banning Koreans from entering certain tournaments to give hand-outs to people who are deemed unable to motivate themselves if they knew they were going to play the best players? In what world is that objectively not a system of welfare? You can like the current system or not, but arguing against calling it welfare seems disingenous at worst and ignorant at best.
If your subjective guess was true I would agree with you, Source?
I would leave it at that but instead of having you scamper around looking for some source I can tell you straight up that nowhere has Blizz stated that the purpose of region locking is giving money to people that can't motivate themselves. No matter what text you somehow interpreted that way you must have missed the point. The interest of Blizz as a Company would never be to give handouts. That I have to explain that you shows your actual understanding of the world, no matter what fancy quote you use to be passive agressive.
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On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know.
I don't know of a single sports tournament that specifically bans people of a specific origin. Because that would be racist. But apparently in StarCraft it's okay to ban people for the sole reason of them being koreans. I'd like to see the FIFA World Cup ban Germany for the sole reason that they're german. "Germans are too good at soccer to be allowed to compete outside of Germany! It makes it less fun for the spectators and the rest of the soccer players don't feel inclined to practice because they will never reach the german level, we have to ban them."
Skill should never be a reason to exclude someone from a tournament.
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Well played Neeb, he was not perfect but he was damn good.
Feel for snute but i think there was abit of a skill gap.
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On September 11 2017 22:49 sd_andeh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know. I don't know of a single sports tournament that specifically bans people of a specific origin. Because that would be racist. But apparently in StarCraft it's okay to ban people for the sole reason of them being koreans. I'd like to see the FIFA World Cup ban Germany for the sole reason that they're german. "Germans are too good at soccer to be allowed to compete outside of Germany! It makes it less fun for the spectators and the rest of the soccer players don't feel inclined to practice because they will never reach the german level, we have to ban them." Skill should never be a reason to exclude someone from a tournament.
Except tournaments in which participation are limited by rankings and thus skill levels are the norm in just about any sport.
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On September 11 2017 23:01 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 22:49 sd_andeh wrote:On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know. I don't know of a single sports tournament that specifically bans people of a specific origin. Because that would be racist. But apparently in StarCraft it's okay to ban people for the sole reason of them being koreans. I'd like to see the FIFA World Cup ban Germany for the sole reason that they're german. "Germans are too good at soccer to be allowed to compete outside of Germany! It makes it less fun for the spectators and the rest of the soccer players don't feel inclined to practice because they will never reach the german level, we have to ban them." Skill should never be a reason to exclude someone from a tournament. Except tournaments in which participation are limited by rankings and thus skill levels are the norm in just about any sport.
Yeah but WCS is not explicitly a "Master League or below, no GM" tournament circuit, or "< 6000 MMR only" or whatever metric you want to use.
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On September 11 2017 23:01 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 22:49 sd_andeh wrote:On September 11 2017 19:44 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 11 2017 19:28 ParksonVN wrote:On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. We have been talking for ages about the region-locked problem. You can call GSL, SSL, VSL Korean welfare if they ban non-Korean and if they didn't, which is the case, the non-Korean would come and win all the Korean trophies. On other hand, if pretty sure if guys like InnoVation, Dark, TY, Stats, herO ... were allowed to freely participate in all the WCS Circuit, they would win all the titles, that's why we call it WCS wellfare. Do you call junior Leagues or junior Championships for underage welfare or female soccer tournaments for womens welfare? No I thought not, don't be stupid. Any tournament organizer is allowed to set whatever rules it wants according to who may or may not get to participate, that does not mean its welfare. Don't use words which meaning you don't know. I don't know of a single sports tournament that specifically bans people of a specific origin. Because that would be racist. But apparently in StarCraft it's okay to ban people for the sole reason of them being koreans. I'd like to see the FIFA World Cup ban Germany for the sole reason that they're german. "Germans are too good at soccer to be allowed to compete outside of Germany! It makes it less fun for the spectators and the rest of the soccer players don't feel inclined to practice because they will never reach the german level, we have to ban them." Skill should never be a reason to exclude someone from a tournament. Except tournaments in which participation are limited by rankings and thus skill levels are the norm in just about any sport.
Name one? There are divisions in sports, but in almost all of them (NHL excluded), lower division teams are always working to advance to the next division until they reach the highest division, where the big money is at.
I would be fine with a system like that for WCS. As long as everyone is allowed to participate in the tournament as a whole, and where the premier tournament is the best of the best.
Oh and please name one tournament that excludes people from a single country, but not from anywhere else.
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On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened.
Non koreans are welcome to play in the GSL. Scarlett, majOr, elazer etc all do
WCS Circuit is "welfare" because the players that win, only win becuase better players aren't allowed to enter. You put all top 8 WCS players into GSL and most of them drop out in the ro32
And listen I have nothing against foreigners getting their own tournaments that they can actually compete in. But don't deny it's welfare when it clearly is. Foreigners get their own tournaments and then have global events they can enter like IEM katowice, shangai, GSL, WeSG. Except they get trashed in those events just like they always have. The fact that they have their own tournaments that korean are banned from means they are already better of than they used to be
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EPT
