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On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise
Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then.
Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums.
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On September 13 2017 01:41 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then. Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums.
Look at the winrate and shut up already.
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On September 13 2017 01:34 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2017 19:21 Poopi wrote:On September 12 2017 19:16 Corvuuss wrote:On September 12 2017 19:14 Poopi wrote:On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote:On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote:On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote:
So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Foreigner scene right now is easier to dominate than before. If Nerchio is right and protoss is really that strong in PvZ if played well, Neeb has it easy because there are a bazillion zergs, one protoss and no terran. If you think about it, it's quite a joke. If you count a bazillion zergs you have to count two Terrans not none What? No foreigner has a shot at winning a premier foreign tournament with terran. Special almost did it iirc but he went to Korea to train hard but still couldn't beat Snute of all people. So no, there are a lot of zergs that can win tourneys in the foreign scene, and they did, and one protoss other than Neeb: ShoWTimE. Special is the only guy to beat Neeb in playoffs, he also made Serral look like a noob in their series. To say he doesn't have a shot at winning a WCS event is stupid. He's the reason Neeb didn't win all four
As I thought you meant showtime has a chance, you have to mention kelazhur as well, because he performed better than showtime for most of the year.
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On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote:
Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb.
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Hopefully Neeb can qualify for the GSL next time...
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On September 13 2017 02:15 RedAlice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 01:41 hiroshOne wrote:On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then. Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums. Look at the winrate and shut up already.
I don't know about you, but I possesed the power of writing with my mouth not open. There is nothing to shut. Stop being offensive. I assume that mods are here and will intervene on this BM.
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On September 13 2017 01:35 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2017 23:17 Bagration wrote:On September 12 2017 19:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote:On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote:On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote:
So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Exactly my point. It's very hard to give Neeb fair praise for his dominance because he's doing it with the gigantic asterisk of "REGION LOCKING" stamped all over all of his accomplishments. Stephano remains the hands down best foreigner because his dominance was done in the face of otherwise Korean dominance in the foreign scene at the height of the game's popularity. Neeb hasn't accomplished anything like that. For me, Neeb is greater than Stephano due to the Kespa Cup win. Dude won a premier in Korea against Koreans. Stephano was great but didn't really accomplish anything in Korea. Stephano had consistancy against koreans. Neeb won kespa cup of the back of PvP, and has failed to live up to that hype ever since (as far as winning against koreans goes)
Very true. Neeb's Kespa Cup looks more prestigious on paper, but the vast majority of Stephano's achievements, even the tournaments where he only placed 2nd, 3rd or 4th, he defeated pretty strong Koreans to get there. Back in those days every major tournament had at least a handful of Korean players: MLG, DH, IEM, NASL, IPL, LoneStar Clash, HSC, etc.
He went toe-to-toe with them better than anyone else could manage at the time and kept it up for quite a while. He was even trading series with strong TvZers like Polt and Bomber.
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On September 13 2017 03:10 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 02:15 RedAlice wrote:On September 13 2017 01:41 hiroshOne wrote:On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then. Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums. Look at the winrate and shut up already. I don't know about you, but I possesed the power of writing with my mouth not open. There is nothing to shut. Stop being offensive. I assume that mods are here and will intervene on this BM.
If you report posts they normally look at them
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On September 13 2017 03:15 Corvuuss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 03:10 hiroshOne wrote:On September 13 2017 02:15 RedAlice wrote:On September 13 2017 01:41 hiroshOne wrote:On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then. Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums. Look at the winrate and shut up already. I don't know about you, but I possesed the power of writing with my mouth not open. There is nothing to shut. Stop being offensive. I assume that mods are here and will intervene on this BM. If you report posts they normally look at them
Frivolous reporting is discouraged, especially with regard to balance whining (shocker, I know).
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United States1923 Posts
On September 12 2017 09:03 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2017 08:16 mizenhauer wrote:On September 12 2017 07:49 pvsnp wrote:On September 12 2017 07:32 mizenhauer wrote:On September 12 2017 06:50 Corvuuss wrote:
The real reason Region lock exists is because it gets blizzard better viewership (yes I know the Game was bigger before the region lock but the RL being the reason is unlikely).
The majority of the people watching sc2 is somewhat casual, which means they don't care about raw skill BUT the story lines and the emotions of players.
I recently read an article about a tennis player (thiem) a young Austrian player who beats the best, but no one in the crowd had cheered for him in the recent US open. Now when I read about him further in the article I noticed something strange. A striking resemblance to the "faceless korean" stereotype: strickt training regime, boring interviews with the same answers he always gives: ("sorry for bad games I will try to do better next time" for example), showing almost no emotion either if he wins or loses.
The point I am trying to make is, only really invested fans watch for raw talent or abilities in any competition, so it is clear that blizzard wants to be able to show more of the story lines. (now there are a few notable exceptions to the "faceless Korean" Mc for example) Read stuff like this and you'll realize that the whole faceless Korean thing is the biggest crock of bullshit ever to grace StarCraft 2. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/524350-eo-yun-soo Shameless self-promotion, smh  To be fair, it is a superbly-written article. If possible (I get there are practical restrictions), I'd love to see some similar articles about other progamers. Maybe the Splyce guys would be easiest to get ahold of? The insight he provided into the inner workings of SKT (and by extension, KeSPA) were very enlightening. I'd be curious to see what soO's teammates thought of the same situation, or what other KeSPA players thought. There are a lot of reasons why it's difficult to arrange these things. These include availability/interest of both writer and player, having a translator (whose duties extend far beyond just translating an interview), being there in person to do interviews etc. We were able to overcome them with soO because he and I had been in contact since I modded for him on twitch and I was already planning a trip to Korea. He speaks English at an above average level and was very interested in doing something of this sort as a means of communicating with/giving back to his foreign fans for their support. Unfortunately I don't see us being able to duplicate that sort of effort in the near future, but it would be irresponsible to completely write it off. That was why I mentioned Splyce, I figured team management might be able to help and Solar of course speaks excellent English. Alternatively, if soO enjoyed the experience, maybe he could recommend it to his friends. Obviously location is an issue but Blizzcon for instance will get some of the progamers into the US. Wasn't Wax involved with the WCS Signature Series last year? That might be an opportunity for him to sit down for a bit longer with some progamers. Just speculating/dreaming, probably just wishful thinking on my part. Of course, I understand if the players simply aren't interested or if circumstances just can't permit.
A project like this also requires a writer (and to a lesser degree a translator) to be very interested in pursuing a project/player. I spent more than 20 hours working on the project in Korea and spent even more time once I'd returned home. You don't just invest that amount of effort in something unless you're really passionate about it. I'm always trying to come up with new stuff that casts Korean players in a different light, but the format used for the soO profile might not be the form it takes.
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On September 13 2017 01:41 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then. Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums.
If you refuse to acknowledge that the players you cited have a very long history of complaining about balance while crushing the race that they are complaining about then there's nothing left to discuss. You are not here to discuss anything, you are just announcing that protoss op then why bother posting anything? Recovering from a 42% winrate in the match up is considered op then I guess in your mind protoss just is not allowed to win.
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Ignore the irrelevant hundred other posts. Congratulations Neeb!
Show nested quote +[quote]Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb!
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On September 13 2017 06:08 KR_4EVR wrote:Ignore the irrelevant hundred other posts. Congratulations Neeb! Show nested quote +[quote]Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb! Ignore what everybody else is saying here. Congratulations, Neeb!
They're not entirely irrelevant, but it is true in this post we should all just be congratulating Neeb, so: Congratulations Neeb!
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Katowice25012 Posts
Neeb is good and that is fun
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On September 13 2017 08:04 Heyoka wrote:
Neeb is good and that is fun
I couldnt't have said it any better
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region locking is dumb, and the reason neeb is a legit good player is because he's stomped koreans. given that he is stomping in a time when skill level has risen tremendously he absolutely deserves to be mentioned with the greats such as early GSL jinro, naniwa, and stephano - and a strong case can be made that he should be held in higher regard than they were (due to the skill level increase)
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On September 13 2017 01:41 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then. Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums.
So are you saying the game is not balanced? It is fairly balanced if you ask me. Although the Korean pros like Innovation and Stats are complaining that zerg is overpowered. But on the WCS circuit Neeb is crushing the Zergs. Having said that I think the game is in a pretty ok state balance-wise. The upcoming changes after blizzcon will fine tune it more
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On September 13 2017 08:04 Heyoka wrote:
Neeb is good and that is fun
Yeah It's fun to see someone this good and consistent as Neeb! Someone winning almost all of the Premier Tourney trophies in 1 year have not happened before. What's more exciting is that we have seen him grow from a nervous kid to becoming an absolute beast! Whether he's on par w/ top Koreans or not what he did this year is definitely a historical moment. 2017 is the year of Neeb!
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On September 13 2017 12:11 Raineeb wrote:Yeah It's fun to see someone this good and consistent as Neeb! Someone winning almost all of the Premier Tourney trophies in 1 year have not happened before. What's more exciting is that we have seen him grow from a nervous kid to becoming an absolute beast! Whether he's on par w/ top Koreans or not what he did this year is definitely a historical moment. 2017 is the year of Neeb!
never forget
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On September 13 2017 12:05 Raineeb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 01:41 hiroshOne wrote:On September 13 2017 00:48 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote:
Shocker:
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise Well, balance issues have their source in design. I won't argue aboit that here but one thing must be mentioned. The way the Protoss can be agressive, perfectly safe vs counterattacks (photon overcharge), can tech and grow his economy in the same time. Compared to Zerg, which if wants to defend, or be agressive, must cut his economy. So basically in scenario when Protoss harrases, with adepts or Oracles (as we saw in the finals) or is being agressive, even if he won't kill workers he already damages Zerg heavily as Zerg must cut drones to defend...And in the end, it means he's already dead if he doesn't make some gimicky allin. In the same time, when Zerg is struggling to defend, Protoss is safely getting all the eco and tech he wishes. Not fair in my opinion as I believe that agression towards the enemy should be commitment. That's why I'm looking forward to major changes in the end of the year. Maybe things will be better then. Also funny that mods warned me because of my post. Team Liquid is hosted in North Korea or sth? I did not BMed anyone. Just expressed my opinion on certain things. As people use to do on forums. So are you saying the game is not balanced? It is fairly balanced if you ask me. Although the Korean pros like Innovation and Stats are complaining that zerg is overpowered. But on the WCS circuit Neeb is crushing the Zergs. Having said that I think the game is in a pretty ok state balance-wise. The upcoming changes after blizzcon will fine tune it more
I'm saying that design wise Protoss is the best rounded race in this game, and on the pro level it has upper hand over Zerg in few ways.
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EPT
