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On August 19 2017 06:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2017 06:03 Fango wrote:On August 19 2017 05:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 19 2017 05:21 Fango wrote:On August 19 2017 05:11 Elentos wrote:On August 19 2017 05:10 zyce wrote:
The HT change is a great QoL change for the majority of players. The amount of activated abilities can get overwhelming. It's less of a QoL change than just a straight-up buff, let's be honest. Only a buff to players that F2 everywhere, which happens to be every Protoss /s not even F2 it just means you don't need to make an additional control group for HTs. This is going to be significant at every level of play. I think it's an awful change, out of all the changes they proposed it's the worst one. The game doesn't need to be easier, the people that want to play an easy game aren't attracted to SC2 anyway. edit: I'm curious what Nerchio's opinion is on making high templar easier to use. I'm assuming you disliked all the changes anyway? no I like the economy changes, the stalker, raven and the disruptor change as well as carrier/SH nerf and I don't mind the cyclone and lurker changes Infestor/WM/Ghost/MSC/High Templar/Viper changes are awful and should be scrapped.
Infestor and viper im neutral on. Although I do find viper's to be too powerful against everything.
HT change makes not that much difference, more QoL than anything. MSC removal is very necessary, balancing the game around proper units and decision making is far better. And does the ghost change really effect that much? Beyond ghost rushes ofc
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On August 19 2017 06:45 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2017 06:19 Charoisaur wrote:On August 19 2017 06:03 Fango wrote:On August 19 2017 05:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 19 2017 05:21 Fango wrote:On August 19 2017 05:11 Elentos wrote:On August 19 2017 05:10 zyce wrote:
The HT change is a great QoL change for the majority of players. The amount of activated abilities can get overwhelming. It's less of a QoL change than just a straight-up buff, let's be honest. Only a buff to players that F2 everywhere, which happens to be every Protoss /s not even F2 it just means you don't need to make an additional control group for HTs. This is going to be significant at every level of play. I think it's an awful change, out of all the changes they proposed it's the worst one. The game doesn't need to be easier, the people that want to play an easy game aren't attracted to SC2 anyway. edit: I'm curious what Nerchio's opinion is on making high templar easier to use. I'm assuming you disliked all the changes anyway? no I like the economy changes, the stalker, raven and the disruptor change as well as carrier/SH nerf and I don't mind the cyclone and lurker changes Infestor/WM/Ghost/MSC/High Templar/Viper changes are awful and should be scrapped. Infestor and viper im neutral on. Although I do find viper's to be too powerful against everything. HT change makes not that much difference, more QoL than anything. MSC removal is very necessary, balancing the game around proper units and decision making is far better. And does the ghost change really effect that much? Beyond ghost rushes ofc
I think the ghost change is a nerf
On August 18 2017 03:08 Charoisaur wrote:
ghost change seems to be a straight nerf. When high templar/ultras are on the map and you start making ghosts in response you don't really care about the cloak; you just want as many snipes/emps as possible.
having cloak available early is irrelevant because once you cloak with 50 energy you have 25 energy left and then you can't do anything with them. Don't see the purpose of this change.
Considering Ghosts are already pretty underused I don't think this is a good idea. They may become good for cheese but for straight up play that's a nerf.
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I am so glad the Mothership Core is dead. Hope that set of changes makes it through.
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Jesus the raven change :
Scrambler missile makes it complete BS in TvT early game, while the 8 range makes it meh against feedback and late game situations.
The MECHivac drone is uninspired and overall more general purposed than the PDD, while not filling the crucial role the PDD did. Also breaks the need for mech to have SCVs and ressources to repair your army, gaz mule + med drone will make having any scvs useless compared to 12 orbital commands.
The armor nerf missile is just bad. It'd be good if it was an early game spell that helped cyclone deal more damage and negate armor (a guardian shield counterplay for instance).
Overall they managed to make the raven suck at its job but more massable since 15 ravens landing 15 med drones makes a thor/tank army pretty much unkillable. And don't get me wrong i feel like the current raven toolkit is bullshit (especially the 16dmg turret and the upgraded seeker), but this new raven is just stupid.
"I'm not even mad, this is amazing"
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On August 19 2017 03:59 paralleluniverse wrote:
Please do something about TvT and the insane tank + marine battles, where it is very difficult to attack or break out, huge armies get obliterated in 5 seconds, and doom drops can instantly end the game.
The raven's defense drone would be better targeted for fixing this problem than in protecting mech units.
I think it's a little bit odd that people continue to ask for the removal of siege tank chess in TvT, which has been a defining aspect of Starcraft all the way back to Brood War. I can understand about not liking doom drops, but the tense nature of tank vs tank has been around for ages and I quite like it.
Also I don't really feel like armies in TvT die any faster than armies in TvP or TvZ. Terran armies have always been glass cannons.
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On August 19 2017 08:24 alexanderzero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2017 03:59 paralleluniverse wrote:
Please do something about TvT and the insane tank + marine battles, where it is very difficult to attack or break out, huge armies get obliterated in 5 seconds, and doom drops can instantly end the game.
The raven's defense drone would be better targeted for fixing this problem than in protecting mech units.
I think it's a little bit odd that people continue to ask for the removal of siege tank chess in TvT, which has been a defining aspect of Starcraft all the way back to Brood War. I can understand about not liking doom drops, but the tense nature of tank vs tank has been around for ages and I quite like it. Also I don't really feel like armies in TvT die any faster than armies in TvP or TvZ. Terran armies have always been glass cannons.
you can find somebody who hates literally anything in a balance thread... balance whining is the 5th fundamental force
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New Disruptor is terrible and needs to not deal friendly fire damage and have an even lower cooldown if it's going to stay the way it is exploding the second it touches enemy units.
The shield recharge ability isn't anywhere close to being a proper substitute for photon overcharge. You are going from a MSC pylon dps abillity to an ability that requires a complete nexus with built up energy and units present. Photon overcharge gave the early game of protoss much needed DPS to handle early rushes. Protoss units are generally low dps. so making them tankier isn't nearly as useful. I don't see how they are going to make this work. My prediction is they will be forced to bring back the MSC.
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On August 19 2017 13:43 Luongo wrote:
New Disruptor is terrible and needs to not deal friendly fire damage and have an even lower cooldown if it's going to stay the way it is exploding the second it touches enemy units.
The shield recharge ability isn't anywhere close to being a proper substitute for photon overcharge. You are going from a MSC pylon dps abillity to an ability that requires a complete nexus with built up energy and units present. Photon overcharge gave the early game of protoss much needed DPS to handle early rushes. Protoss units are generally low dps. so making them tankier isn't nearly as useful. I don't see how they are going to make this work. My prediction is they will be forced to bring back the MSC.
This is all pretty much true, Disruptor should be removed from the game, it fills no role that the High Templar and Colossus can't fill and it's design is messy from the get go.
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On August 19 2017 13:43 Luongo wrote:
You are going from a MSC pylon dps abillity to an ability that requires a complete nexus with built up energy and units present.
Holy fuck! You actually need units to defend drops. Units! How can you be expected to have units in game of SC2?! Blatantly broken! Next thing, they tell us we need to make upgrades for these units. Outrageous!
(I am very well aware, that this post may receive moderator attention. Totally worth it.)
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Interesting.
My few worries are about the WM change that effectively removes the need to have detection and the Viper that still seems to be way to good against everything. With the Raven no longer able to fight mass Zerg air, BL-Corruptor-Viper should be invincible against Terran.
Love the Raven redesign, the Protoss changes and the MULE mining gas to help mech and FG no longer able to hit air (i wanted this since WoL :p ). I'm still not seeing any improvement to mech anti air though, it actually got worse IMO vs Zerg. Maybe make the Thor a bit faster to get in position easier or more range, i don't know.
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On August 19 2017 13:43 Luongo wrote:
New Disruptor is terrible and needs to not deal friendly fire damage and have an even lower cooldown if it's going to stay the way it is exploding the second it touches enemy units.
The shield recharge ability isn't anywhere close to being a proper substitute for photon overcharge. You are going from a MSC pylon dps abillity to an ability that requires a complete nexus with built up energy and units present. Photon overcharge gave the early game of protoss much needed DPS to handle early rushes. Protoss units are generally low dps. so making them tankier isn't nearly as useful. I don't see how they are going to make this work. My prediction is they will be forced to bring back the MSC.
OMG...Are you seriously crying that you need UNITS to defend your base? ROFTL
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On August 19 2017 14:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Interesting.
My few worries are about the WM change that effectively removes the need to have detection and the Viper that still seems to be way to good against everything. With the Raven no longer able to fight mass Zerg air, BL-Corruptor-Viper should be invincible against Terran.
Love the Raven redesign, the Protoss changes and the MULE mining gas to help mech and FG no longer able to hit air (i wanted this since WoL :p ). I'm still not seeing any improvement to mech anti air though, it actually got worse IMO vs Zerg. Maybe make the Thor a bit faster to get in position easier or more range, i don't know.
Honestly late game should be involved around economic than one side straight up engagement.
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On August 19 2017 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2017 13:43 Luongo wrote:
New Disruptor is terrible and needs to not deal friendly fire damage and have an even lower cooldown if it's going to stay the way it is exploding the second it touches enemy units.
The shield recharge ability isn't anywhere close to being a proper substitute for photon overcharge. You are going from a MSC pylon dps abillity to an ability that requires a complete nexus with built up energy and units present. Photon overcharge gave the early game of protoss much needed DPS to handle early rushes. Protoss units are generally low dps. so making them tankier isn't nearly as useful. I don't see how they are going to make this work. My prediction is they will be forced to bring back the MSC. OMG...Are you seriously crying that you need UNITS to defend your base? ROFTL
Great contribution. Clearly what I said went way over your tiny head. Before you'd defend a natural / third with units + overcharge, even if the nexus wasn't complete or fresh. Now you have to do that without overcharge, and if you don't have a complete nexus with energy, the shield recharge ability won't add anything defensively to compensate for that. This effectively nerfs protoss hard in the early game. The change is not going to work unless there are more compensations.
PvP is also going to be a nightmare with this change. With the ability to chrono oracles out way faster than ever before, and no photon overcharge to help defend them at home, they are going to run rampant. Oracles have never existed in an era where photon overcharge didn't exist, and where chrono could get them out as fast as it can now.
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I swear, some of the post I see, here goes....
1. The Ghost thing is not a nerf. This is some simple ass thinking. This has to be a Terran worried about only TvZ, and ONLY late game.
Did you see Ryung blow people's minds with his Proxy cloaked Ghost rush vs Dear in I think GSL season 2? I can almost guarantee that game influenced the decision here, precisely because it was so fresh. It's like an earlier banshee harass, and easier to get to. Why are y'all so simple ? Like really?
2. MSC should have NEVER been in the game. It's funny cause I always wanted shield batteries, but those were in the campaign, meanwhile the MSC, a clear campaign type unit, is in the game.
I watched you guys whine reapers out the game, well the photon overcharge Rush is finally gone, it ruined so many early games PvT it's ridiculous...
3. Finally they put Lockdown in the game, it should have been in WOL, collosi wouldn't have been so OP..
4. They should just stop bullshitting and replace the cyclone with goliaths....
5. As long as Vikings are useless vs other ground units, it will always be a bad unit IMO. I don't care how fast it transforms, no Terran lands Vikings and then fights. Why not better a Valkyrie type unit?
6. The mech heal just underscores how dumb hell bats are. Remove em already, how can they be better than a tech lab Firebat? Give em the hellbat attack animation as an ability on cool down, give me the regular hellion attack animation as the standard attack, make em kinda quick so they can be micro able vs zealots and banes.
(And while I'm at it, how are hellions and widow mines a better unit than vultures with spider mines?)
7. Why am I not surprised like a month into a new meta the zergs are whining about mass oracle!!
This is after over a year of Hydra bane dominance. Hurricanes traditional, WOL-esque stalker sentrie colossi seemed to work pretty well in GSl. So Toss has another option, Jesus so what? You see a toss make three oracles man just make 35 roaches and throw them at his shit. Then either mass drone or double expo behind it. Like goddamn you PLAY ZERG, WTF??!!
More thought to come, y'all exhaust me, lol
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Great, go ahead Blizzard!
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Ghost thing IS a nerf, especially in TvP, where you want to have EMPs out as quickly as possible after scouting HTs, which is going to take a bit longer since you have to have Moebius Reactor researched.
It really just promotes gimmicky play like rushing nuke harass, but really doesn't add much to "late game viability".
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I don't understand why the infestor needed a change... 50% off creep, rooted on creep, can't hit air, man Zerg in SC2 is such hot mess.
I'm glad I stopped playing it.
I just don't get it why making units more complex is the way to go? Why make stupid changes to okay units like Infestor/Viper, when instead you can do something like nerf Hydras and make them cost the same as BW. So if I want to make anti air, I can mass a ton of weaker hydras for cheap, fungal the air army and kill it like that.
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On August 19 2017 14:23 QuinnTheEskimo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2017 13:43 Luongo wrote:
You are going from a MSC pylon dps abillity to an ability that requires a complete nexus with built up energy and units present. Holy fuck! You actually need units to defend drops. Units! How can you be expected to have units in game of SC2?! Blatantly broken! Next thing, they tell us we need to make upgrades for these units. Outrageous! (I am very well aware, that this post may receive moderator attention. Totally worth it.)
who needs units when the shield recharge works on cannons too?
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sAw
965 Posts
Units still clump up too much and die way too fast for my liking. Entire armies can get obliterated in an instant, large scale battles are much more exciting in BW.
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I'm afraid the mule harvesting gas will make terran's build completely unreadable, the amount of variation in the timings it would allow might be too much for early games.
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EPT
