• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:39
CEST 14:39
KST 21:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer2Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Which UAE App Developers Are Leading the Innovatio
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 33391 users

What happened to Blizzard's effort to buff Mech? - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next All
Spyridon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States997 Posts
March 10 2017 18:50 GMT
#161
On March 10 2017 09:21 StraKo wrote:
I just hope that blizzard will some day focus on making more styles viable. The game currently really lacks diversity.



They haven't really done that through the whole lifetime of SC2. They have always balanced units to have very specific roles in each matchup, and many units not even useful at all in certain matchups.

It's the only way they are able to get semi-decent balance on the winrate results with the design of the game.

I am 100% confident that this part of the game will never be changing. They have proven that they will never be adjusting the actual design with their "design update" released last summer (which was actually just a balance patch with absolutely no actual "design" changes).

I wasbanned fromthis
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
113 Posts
March 10 2017 19:28 GMT
#162
Half-witted thoughts fueled with egotism. It's mostly a waste of limited retentive memory and of the potentiality of any given moment.
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
March 10 2017 22:25 GMT
#163
The hardest part about touching anything mech related is that if you take one step too far, then you enable cancer mech which IMO is worse than even the most toxic styles of Protoss.

There is a variant of mech which is aggressive and timing based, awesome to play and watch, but it is inextricably bound up with the kind of mech that no one who is a fan of SC wants to see...
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
March 10 2017 23:01 GMT
#164
On March 11 2017 07:25 Qwyn wrote:
The hardest part about touching anything mech related is that if you take one step too far, then you enable cancer mech which IMO is worse than even the most toxic styles of Protoss.

There is a variant of mech which is aggressive and timing based, awesome to play and watch, but it is inextricably bound up with the kind of mech that no one who is a fan of SC wants to see...


I wonder if it has anything to do with design. BW tanks for example, while they were strong, will die to zerglings + dark swarm, or speed zealots and storm. Basically, cheap melee units. BW tanks, while they were great for defense and can hold key positions, weren't by any mean OP if you make 20 and mass them along a line. The BW tanks themselves also didn't have smart firing and would overkill target. This allows zerglings and the speed zealots to break through the main line and do damage to the tanks or at least force the terran back a little bit. This allows back and forth and forces both player to reposition themselves in order to exploit or defend weak points.

In SC2, once Terran sets up their tank line, you pretty much have to commit your army or get an extremely gas heavy army of your own before you could even think about breaking that tank line. With PDD in the picture, the Terran, once they are in position, can trade extremely well and pretty much sit there. On the other hand, the Terran also can't move out in this situation without risk losing half of his army because his tanks were unsieged.

I don't think increasing or decreasing tanks or mech unit damage will help with these design flaws. Blizzard isn't exactly showing that they are willing to make drastic changes either and I highly doubt they even have more than 2 or 3 people on the balance team. Here is how I envision the SC2 balance division: 2 guys on the team making small changes, 1 marketing forum guy that repeats the top 3 most trending TL/Reddit complaints to promise change and propose updates without actually planning to carry those updates out.
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
March 13 2017 11:53 GMT
#165
what effort did i miss something????
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
March 13 2017 12:29 GMT
#166
Here I am watching Gumiho destroy yet another Zerg with Hellbat Tank Thor Viking. I open Teamliquid and people complain that Mech is not viable. Maybe the problem isn't mech but that you guys are too bad?
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
March 13 2017 12:42 GMT
#167
On March 13 2017 21:29 Railgan wrote:
Here I am watching Gumiho destroy yet another Zerg with Hellbat Tank Thor Viking. I open Teamliquid and people complain that Mech is not viable. Maybe the problem isn't mech but that you guys are too bad?


so this means to you that beeing viable means that a pro player can win a ladder game with a certain strategy? well i guess scv rush just became viable
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
March 13 2017 13:07 GMT
#168
On March 13 2017 21:42 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2017 21:29 Railgan wrote:
Here I am watching Gumiho destroy yet another Zerg with Hellbat Tank Thor Viking. I open Teamliquid and people complain that Mech is not viable. Maybe the problem isn't mech but that you guys are too bad?


so this means to you that beeing viable means that a pro player can win a ladder game with a certain strategy? well i guess scv rush just became viable


Ladder game?

Gumiho like only mechs vs zergs in tournaments, and this has been the case for months.

Honestly, do you people even watch the game? Do you play it?
Cereal
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15914 Posts
March 13 2017 13:09 GMT
#169
On March 13 2017 21:42 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2017 21:29 Railgan wrote:
Here I am watching Gumiho destroy yet another Zerg with Hellbat Tank Thor Viking. I open Teamliquid and people complain that Mech is not viable. Maybe the problem isn't mech but that you guys are too bad?


so this means to you that beeing viable means that a pro player can win a ladder game with a certain strategy? well i guess scv rush just became viable

We saw pros using mech in tournaments several times by players like Ryung, Gumiho or TY. It's definitely somewhat viable.
However I haven't seen a mech player deal well with swarmhosts yet so I hope they'll make some adjustments to them.
For some reason pros don't use swarmhosts that often against mech but TY seemed clueless on how to deal with soO's swarmhosts in gsl.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12771 Posts
March 13 2017 13:54 GMT
#170
Pros don't win equally skilled opponents with mech in TvX (x!=T) tho, Gumiho got crushed by soO as well when trying mech.
WriterMaru
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
March 13 2017 14:05 GMT
#171
On March 13 2017 22:09 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2017 21:42 KOtical wrote:
On March 13 2017 21:29 Railgan wrote:
Here I am watching Gumiho destroy yet another Zerg with Hellbat Tank Thor Viking. I open Teamliquid and people complain that Mech is not viable. Maybe the problem isn't mech but that you guys are too bad?


so this means to you that beeing viable means that a pro player can win a ladder game with a certain strategy? well i guess scv rush just became viable

We saw pros using mech in tournaments several times by players like Ryung, Gumiho or TY. It's definitely somewhat viable.
However I haven't seen a mech player deal well with swarmhosts yet so I hope they'll make some adjustments to them.
For some reason pros don't use swarmhosts that often against mech but TY seemed clueless on how to deal with soO's swarmhosts in gsl.

TY lost like 1 refinery to swarmhosts. It was more like after he saw them his brain stopped working and he completely forgot soO could make air units so when soO showed broodlords he had 1 unit that could shoot up.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
March 13 2017 14:19 GMT
#172
On March 13 2017 22:54 Poopi wrote:
Pros don't win equally skilled opponents with mech in TvX (x!=T) tho, Gumiho got crushed by soO as well when trying mech.


But soO did not use Swarmhost. Just Roach/Ravager/Hyra and some vipers overall. So what? Nerf all that units? Because soO won and shouldn't? LOL
Ultima Ratio Regum
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15914 Posts
March 13 2017 14:19 GMT
#173
On March 13 2017 23:05 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2017 22:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 13 2017 21:42 KOtical wrote:
On March 13 2017 21:29 Railgan wrote:
Here I am watching Gumiho destroy yet another Zerg with Hellbat Tank Thor Viking. I open Teamliquid and people complain that Mech is not viable. Maybe the problem isn't mech but that you guys are too bad?


so this means to you that beeing viable means that a pro player can win a ladder game with a certain strategy? well i guess scv rush just became viable

We saw pros using mech in tournaments several times by players like Ryung, Gumiho or TY. It's definitely somewhat viable.
However I haven't seen a mech player deal well with swarmhosts yet so I hope they'll make some adjustments to them.
For some reason pros don't use swarmhosts that often against mech but TY seemed clueless on how to deal with soO's swarmhosts in gsl.

TY lost like 1 refinery to swarmhosts. It was more like after he saw them his brain stopped working and he completely forgot soO could make air units so when soO showed broodlords he had 1 unit that could shoot up.

he lost 2 refineries and 7 scvs to the locusts, couldn't push because the locust waves forced him to back off every time and because of them he attempted a speedbanshee transition instead of transitioning to air units.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12771 Posts
March 13 2017 14:56 GMT
#174
On March 13 2017 23:19 hiroshOne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2017 22:54 Poopi wrote:
Pros don't win equally skilled opponents with mech in TvX (x!=T) tho, Gumiho got crushed by soO as well when trying mech.


But soO did not use Swarmhost. Just Roach/Ravager/Hyra and some vipers overall. So what? Nerf all that units? Because soO won and shouldn't? LOL

?
I didn't talk about nerf or whatever, I don't care much about mech, but it's still bad in TvZ and TvP.
WriterMaru
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
March 13 2017 15:06 GMT
#175
On March 13 2017 22:54 Poopi wrote:
Pros don't win equally skilled opponents with mech in TvX (x!=T) tho, Gumiho got crushed by soO as well when trying mech.


soO would most likely crush Gumiho with any composition, Gumiho is hardly a top of the line Terran
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
March 13 2017 15:13 GMT
#176
That being said I think Gumiho's one of the better mech players, no? Or at least he's the one that's tried it probably more than most of the other Terrans.
kiss kiss fall in love
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
March 13 2017 15:24 GMT
#177
He beat soO in a bo5 4 days ago with only mech.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16669 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 15:51:24
March 13 2017 15:40 GMT
#178
On March 11 2017 08:01 phodacbiet wrote:
I don't think increasing or decreasing tanks or mech unit damage will help with these design flaws. Blizzard isn't exactly showing that they are willing to make drastic changes either and I highly doubt they even have more than 2 or 3 people on the balance team. Here is how I envision the SC2 balance division: 2 guys on the team making small changes, 1 marketing forum guy that repeats the top 3 most trending TL/Reddit complaints to promise change and propose updates without actually planning to carry those updates out.

seeing as you're going way, way, way off and wildly speculating... i'll counter speculate...

the revenue generated by the small group of whining RTS players is not worth bullshitting. your money ain't worth their time to even spin doctor. they'd rather make a new skylander figure for 10,000 nine year olds to lose and cry to their parents to buy it a 2nd time.

ATVI makes more revenue off of Skylander toys lost by 9 year olds than it does off of competitive RTS players.

Blzzard bullshitting you about this would be like your auto mechanic lying to you so that you pay $2501 rather than $2500 to get your transmission replaced. it ain't worth the $1 to bullshit.. the guy is already getting $2500 out of you for a tough job.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2627 Posts
March 13 2017 15:44 GMT
#179
Making mech viable vs toss wouldn't hurt, the last time I saw someone try was 2014 (not counting LotV beta with mass cyclones).

Also people keep complaining but the only things that have been asked has been:

1.- Nerf ravens.
2.- Nerf SH

Its not the fucking end of the world, both those units are pretty cancerous and are pretty detrimental to make aggressive mech work.
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 16:24:56
March 13 2017 16:21 GMT
#180
On March 14 2017 00:13 intotheheart wrote:
That being said I think Gumiho's one of the better mech players, no? Or at least he's the one that's tried it probably more than most of the other Terrans.


On March 14 2017 00:24 Elentos wrote:
He beat soO in a bo5 4 days ago with only mech.


From what remember Soo played really poorly against gumiho's mech (stupid compositions, loosing way too much to simple hellion harass).
And, most of all, like every KR zerg player but Rogue or Leenock, he didn't build any swarmhosts.
But i watched it half asleep so if i'm wrong feel free to correct me.

The only three reasons why we see TvZ mech at the top KR level is because :
- they synergize well with cheesy builds (Ryung vs leenock in the GSL, fast range liberator build), so they can be used as a map specific cheese
- most KR zergs don't seem to be used to play against mech (lack of scouting, still going for a fast third with mass queens speedlings then go for +1/+1 melee then go for T2 tech, playing the HOTS meta with roach hydras into very fast vipers, etc...)
- most KR zergs don't build swarm hosts against mech

If you look the EU and NA scene, no one plays mech. Saying mech is perfectly fine and viable right now would be like saying forge expand is viable in PvT because KR pros can pull it off after a sucessfull canon rush.
I'm not saying mech can"t be strong against zerg right now, i'm saying it's not viable. As in : there's no meta, no stages of the game, the few sucessfull mech plays we see at GSL/top KR levels are based on cheeses and the fact that zergs weren't really confronted to mech so they don't know what to do.

On March 14 2017 00:44 Lexender wrote:
Making mech viable vs toss wouldn't hurt, the last time I saw someone try was 2014 (not counting LotV beta with mass cyclones).


Actually i think that the only matchup where mech is truely viable right now is TvP. I've played mech in TvP most of the time since 3.8 (even beat Nightend and WhiteRa with mech play), and i haven't really seen any toss composition that really invalidates mech.
- tempests are much more of an investment, and thors have similar range. So if you have some amount of thors in your army you can push out when you scout the SG transition.
- immortals are now much more suceptible to siege tanks shots, and cyclones can burst them down too if they're exposed. So now you can actually do focus fire with your siege tanks
- cyclones, tanks and vikings are now much stronger against blink stalkers, which were one of the real reasons mech was terrible against toss in the past
- ranged liberators can invalidate compositions that rely too heavily on disruptors
- the thor's increased AoE, and in some way the cyclone and the raven's auto turret can allow the mech player to push against carriers when the transition is scouted
- BCs can wreck carriers with yamato, and can "allin" tempests with the jump into yamato

However, phenixes openers "straight into carriers" are still an issue. The fact that you can't ever push out against a toss that goes for phenixes, and the fact that not pushing out against early carriers is kind of a death sentence unless you wanna turtle REALLY hard into BCs, really makes me wonder if mech can deal with it. But that could be adjusted later if we see mech buils against toss getting shut down by that.
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
$400 Monday #40
WardiTV900
OGKoka 492
CranKy Ducklings230
IndyStarCraft 203
Rex160
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 492
Harstem 261
IndyStarCraft 203
Rex 160
ProTech73
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5651
Horang2 2878
EffOrt 787
Larva 588
Light 403
Mini 403
Stork 382
Zeus 374
actioN 372
ZerO 314
[ Show more ]
Snow 202
Pusan 162
Mong 114
hero 109
Sharp 104
JulyZerg 64
PianO 63
sSak 57
Sea.KH 56
Killer 45
Rush 41
JYJ37
Backho 35
Movie 33
zelot 31
Icarus 31
soO 23
Shine 19
GoRush 14
scan(afreeca) 12
sorry 10
Noble 9
Sacsri 9
yabsab 8
ivOry 6
Dota 2
qojqva971
420jenkins900
XcaliburYe540
League of Legends
Dendi1282
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2525
x6flipin544
allub126
Other Games
singsing1847
B2W.Neo1288
C9.Mang0484
hiko427
crisheroes401
Liquid`RaSZi314
Fuzer 249
Lowko187
ArmadaUGS137
Pyrionflax125
elazer99
ZerO(Twitch)27
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8045
Other Games
gamesdonequick525
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis7187
• Jankos1242
Other Games
• WagamamaTV133
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
11h 22m
Replay Cast
21h 22m
RSL Revival
21h 22m
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
PiGosaur Monday
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
4 days
Circuito Brasileiro de…
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-11
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.