On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
You can have both.
Take a look at DotA for example. Balanced around the highest level, but patches still solve some pub issues.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
It's hard to tell what game you have been watching Games are much more fast than in HotS (if it's good or bad, I'm not commenting )
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
It's hard to tell what game you have been watching Games are much more fast than in HotS (if it's good or bad, I'm not commenting )
They do feel much faster, though I think part of that is because Blizz basically said, 'let's skip the first five minutes of each game' and went ahead and plopped everyone a stone's throw from mid-game
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
It's hard to tell what game you have been watching Games are much more fast than in HotS (if it's good or bad, I'm not commenting )
They do feel much faster, though I think part of that is because Blizz basically said, 'let's skip the first five minutes of each game' and went ahead and plopped everyone a stone's throw from mid-game
Macro games are no less fun/boring than non-macro games. The same is true for timing pushes, rushes, etc...
Enjoyment comes from 3 base parameters:
1.) Execution of a base expectation (think "Oscar Worthy" Movies)
2.) Clever shift of base expectation (think "Indie" movie)
3.) Compacted delivery of base expectations (think trailers)
Things get boring when only one of those things are presented instead of all three. If all games are macro games then the game is boring to watch. If all games are rush games it will be similarly boring. There needs to be as many "fast/bite-sized" games as there are "long/sweeping" games and everything in between.
things are not boring because there isn't enough mech--as if the pixels on the screen is where people find enjoyment when watching an RTS. People care about translatability of strategic narrative. They don't care if games are positional because it's a liberator, or a swarm host, or whatever. They don't care that the Protoss is making stalkers/zealots for the millionth time in a row--all they care about is that they can tell what the player is trying to do, and they can tell how the opponent is responding to that attempt.
I would say there are 3 main types of mech, each with many subtypes.
1) Consistent factory/starport unit harass to get a worker advantage, followed by a death push with an unconventional army that doesn't include many barracks units.
2) 3-4 base timing death pushes, for example what you would see in many Flash TvP games in BW.
3) Turtling that leads to mining out the map and hour-long games, often associated, perhaps unfairly, with avilo.
I would say that Blizzard has done a very good job at making (1) viable, as seen by the success of Terrans associated with that style, such as Gumiho, Ryung, and aLive. I would also say that Blizzard is doing everything they can not to make (3) viable, perhaps because it is a style that is often complained about on forums.
Blizzard doesn't seem to be acknowledging (2) very much, if at all, perhaps because Protoss is already associated with that playstyle.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
Lol I can't remember anyone else ever complaining about that
Same old shitty debate with no progress whatsoever. Its pointless to discuss, every single time everyone repeats the same thing. They give the same reasons why mech should be buffed or not. Even small details are repeated over and over.
It really feels like a terrible political debate. I refuse to repeat yet again the same stuff to explain what is wrong. So i'll just state it as a fact. 75% of this thread is full of shit, the rest is ignored.
On March 09 2017 08:19 FoxDog wrote: >>>>-- All they have to do is buff the thor anti air so it counters carriers, voidrays/tempest flying locust(sh), vipers and broodlords
avilo devised a testmap with an ability he calls hyperballistic missile
with no nerfs, you could have independent factory only tech viable overnight and it wouldnt be overpowered.
The sad thing is how long ago i came up with that design/balance change, showed that it 100% fixed mech anti-air, and blizzard probably saw it and completely ignored it.
It was after that point i basically gave up all hope of "constructive debate" or rather realized that blizzard does not care for community input and will simply make their own changes. And we've seen all those changes have continuously made the game more 1 dimensional for bio play and made mech worse even after the "mech patch" aka the "swarmhost patch."
It's really clear they are not interested in anyone advising them that is knowledgeable about mech. I am not saying that because i am salty and no one at this point can say "they just don't listen to u avilo."
Here's a list of mech Terrans that tried to give feedback to blizzard about similar issues that i did, that blizzard completely ignored for 5+ yrs:
strekok, goody, htomario, ruff, lillekenan, morrow, myself...probably missing many people.
All of these people made posts on forums, talked about it in videos or in interviews, or on their streams, reddit, TL, etc.
Blizzard has continuously and purposely ignored the advice of every knowledgeable mech person in the community. Even after the big community ladder MOD + test map came out myself and others gave feedback that swarmhosts were ridiculously broken on that map, as well as carriers. They decided to ignore it so the last 3-4 months since the "mech patch" have all been mass swarmhost + raven games on ladder.
At this point, no $$$$$$ = blizzard no listen like someone else in the thread earlier said. Their lead balance dev is content to let the game be 100% bio play and have no strategic diversity.
It's really frustrating, but it's nice that there's still people left in the community that care about this game and have passion to call blizzard out on how bullshit they are after all these years for game balance. This thread can hopefully get mech back on blizzard's radar ? (it won't).
On March 09 2017 08:26 Superbanana wrote: Same old shitty debate with no progress whatsoever. Its pointless to discuss, every single time everyone repeats the same thing. They give the same reasons why mech should be buffed or not. Even small details are repeated over and over.
It really feels like a terrible political debate. I refuse to repeat yet again the same stuff to explain what is wrong. So i'll just state it as a fact. 75% of this thread is full of shit, the rest is ignored.
Exactly. The fact they refuse to fix mech and make mech worse patch after patch for years shows they do not care. They will never listen to the community about this, and it is in fact the same debate and posts over and over again year after year.
Blizzard in the last 4-5 community updates still has refused to even acknowledge swarmhosts are broken as fuck versus mech. That is purposeful on their part. They honestly don't give a fuck anymore, most people should know this. You are right that their updates are literally just PR.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Disagree. They have accepted further than 50% on a more long-term basis (without taking extreme action) than ever before since LotV. And they have all but stopped caring about "satisfaction" in the pro scene.
The pro scene has been crumbling as a result. While they work on mission packs and coop commanders.
On March 09 2017 08:30 avilo wrote:
Blizzard in the last 4-5 community updates still has refused to even acknowledge swarmhosts are broken as fuck versus mech. That is purposeful on their part. They honestly don't give a fuck anymore, most people should know this. You are right that their updates are literally just PR.
Exactly! I've been calling them out for turning the community updates - that originally were interaction with the community at first - for turning the updates in to PR ever since the end of LotV beta. And it has become worse and worse, and more and more obvious.
In what you quoted he was mentioning its like a political debate. At this point, of course it is. Blizzards "community update" function just like political press releases.
Seriously, look at what they are truly doing in these community updates. They bring up issues that they know the community will be split on. They are ENCOURAGING people to take sides on specific issues, and that is the pathway they are using to implement what benefits their own interests, getting people excited for changes that will never happen, in the end making very little change DESPITE ALL THE PROMISES, and in all cases they blame it on the community. That's precisely why they spit in the face of community support on a regular basis. It's not really about us, it's about them.
It's pretty obvious at this point. The only part that does not make sense to me, is that many people still do not see through the lies, and what Blizzard has truly been doing.
Then again, that sorta does make sense. Because many people do not see through the lies and what is really happening in real life politics, either.
On March 09 2017 08:19 FoxDog wrote: >>>>-- All they have to do is buff the thor anti air so it counters carriers, voidrays/tempest flying locust(sh), vipers and broodlords
avilo devised a testmap with an ability he calls hyperballistic missile
with no nerfs, you could have independent factory only tech viable overnight and it wouldnt be overpowered.
The sad thing is how long ago i came up with that design/balance change, showed that it 100% fixed mech anti-air, and blizzard probably saw it and completely ignored it.
It was after that point i basically gave up all hope of "constructive debate" or rather realized that blizzard does not care for community input and will simply make their own changes. And we've seen all those changes have continuously made the game more 1 dimensional for bio play and made mech worse even after the "mech patch" aka the "swarmhost patch."
It's really clear they are not interested in anyone advising them that is knowledgeable about mech. I am not saying that because i am salty and no one at this point can say "they just don't listen to u avilo."
Here's a list of mech Terrans that tried to give feedback to blizzard about similar issues that i did, that blizzard completely ignored for 5+ yrs:
strekok, goody, htomario, ruff, lillekenan, morrow, myself...probably missing many people.
All of these people made posts on forums, talked about it in videos or in interviews, or on their streams, reddit, TL, etc.
Blizzard has continuously and purposely ignored the advice of every knowledgeable mech person in the community. Even after the big community ladder MOD + test map came out myself and others gave feedback that swarmhosts were ridiculously broken on that map, as well as carriers. They decided to ignore it so the last 3-4 months since the "mech patch" have all been mass swarmhost + raven games on ladder.
At this point, no $$$$$$ = blizzard no listen like someone else in the thread earlier said. Their lead balance dev is content to let the game be 100% bio play and have no strategic diversity.
It's really frustrating, but it's nice that there's still people left in the community that care about this game and have passion to call blizzard out on how bullshit they are after all these years for game balance. This thread can hopefully get mech back on blizzard's radar ? (it won't).
On March 09 2017 08:26 Superbanana wrote: Same old shitty debate with no progress whatsoever. Its pointless to discuss, every single time everyone repeats the same thing. They give the same reasons why mech should be buffed or not. Even small details are repeated over and over.
It really feels like a terrible political debate. I refuse to repeat yet again the same stuff to explain what is wrong. So i'll just state it as a fact. 75% of this thread is full of shit, the rest is ignored.
Exactly. The fact they refuse to fix mech and make mech worse patch after patch for years shows they do not care. They will never listen to the community about this, and it is in fact the same debate and posts over and over again year after year.
Blizzard in the last 4-5 community updates still has refused to even acknowledge swarmhosts are broken as fuck versus mech. That is purposeful on their part. They honestly don't give a fuck anymore, most people should know this. You are right that their updates are literally just PR.
But that includes you. You ask if this thread will get mech back on the radar? Of course it won't, the game changed but the arguments are still the same, including yours. Nothing new here. Nobody is going to change their minds if its just the same stuff repeated again.
You want thors to shut down vipers, broodlords and flying locusts. So what? zerg is forced into roach ravager hydra? ultras? You know very well they get destroyed by late game mech. Which is what you want. Zerg on a clock trying to kill a turtle mech terran before late game since hive tech is rendered useless. Did i misunderstand? please explain. Say this is not what you want and tell me why. Instead, a small buff on mid game terran agression (that hellbat cyclone that transitions gradually to late game mech, with possible hellion or banshee or liberator harass) makes mech more viable than it curretly is. If you kill drones, force units, deny bases, doing any sort of damage, zerg won't have infinite money against the already strong late game mech.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
I have never seen so much stupidity in one post. This has got to be a troll, i refuse to believe otherwise.
u can not make an aoe attack like the thor make enough dmg to kill big battleships like carriers or bcs in an fine trade . if so the dmg must be so high that every other air unit gets completly obliterated. what will happen if these thors shoot on corruptor or vikings they will just get destoyed. this is the reason for the thor second single target mode u can debate if this needs to be stronger but never try to counter major battle ships with aoe dmg
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
I have never seen so much stupidity in one post. This has got to be a troll, i refuse to believe otherwise.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
I have never seen so much stupidity in one post. This has got to be a troll, i refuse to believe otherwise.
The reason early WoL was successful is that CS was temporarily dead and MOBA esports didn't have much money behind it. It had nothing to do with the quality of the game, it was the only esport with lots of money and active developer support at the time.
On March 08 2017 22:56 ReachTheSky wrote: Guys blizzard already got our money, they don't care about balance, don't waste your time, just boycott their games and send a real message to the company. I have zero tolerance for game companies that are not proactive in supporting/evolving their own games/balance. No wonder blizzard is not #1 anymore, they operate by the philosophy of whether or not they are still getting money from us. Lets see how this works out in the long haul.
Spot on except for one thing: the only care about balance in the pro scene.
As long as the pro scene has around 50% in all MUs, they don't give a shit about the rest of the community. As you said, they already got our money.
And it's not Blizzard, it's Activision since many years now.
Well, if you read through most balance threads on TL you will see that the vast majority of the user base, me included, wants the game to be balanced around top tier level play. Not what is good for the majority (is it still gold league that is the average skill?). It is hard to make a casual friendly and easy for all kind of game that is still competitive and balanced at the top.
You see Blizzard is taking that approach to their new game Overwatch. This has lead to a very stale meta where some compositions and heroes are just too good to not be played which means a predictable and not so interesting pro scene in my opinion. The main reason is that low to mid tier players (the majority) are complaining about certain things being too hard to deal with. So the "easy" stuff in the low and mid tier are now way too good in the upper tiers. It is a fine line to walk.
So I personally think it is good that balance is focused at the top and then trickles down to the masses. Most of the time the so called "balance issues" are not the case why people are struggling or losing. The old phrase "macro better" is a classic for a reason.
Lets be honest. Macro games are BORING AS SHIT TO WATCH. Tuning into a broadcast where there is no action for the first 8-12 minutes of a game is not exciting to watch. This is one reason why early WOL had more success compared to HOTS/LOTV. In early WOL, you had exciting strategies, not just 2-3 base maxes or no action for the first 10 minutes of a game. Blizzard needs to really think about this when making balance changes moving forward. The whole mentality "I need to be able to 2-3 base macro/max out while defending EVERYTHING needs to go". It shouldn't even be viable. You simply shouldn't be able to defend offensive strategies with static expansion openings. Defenders advantage is too strong in this game. Mitigate this by making units move faster or by shrinking maps. Make sc2 exciting to watch again. Back to whats on topic though, Blizzard doesn't care about mech. Infact, from an abstract standpoint, turtle mech is the same as bio-expand openings, THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 8-10 MINUTES. Its all the same IMO. Blizzard doesn't care though.
I have never seen so much stupidity in one post. This has got to be a troll, i refuse to believe otherwise.
The reason early WoL was successful is that CS was temporarily dead and MOBA esports didn't have much money behind it. It had nothing to do with the quality of the game, it was the only esport with lots of money and active developer support at the time.
This isn't really true. WoL was released right after League started their big F2P push and they had the most growing momentum at that time. It was during that 2 year period of growth that led to their becoming the largest PC game (followed by game in the world another 2 years later).
WoL actually had semi-satisfied gamers at the time. People had complaints, but the game was new, and the overall environment was positive about the future.
Now if we go so many years later, and those complaints that existed in WoL BETA have still not been addressed, of course people are going to be discouraged. Multiply that by the frustration of seeing these PR updates for years with no real substance... and yeah... is it really a surprise SC2 is in a decline?
EPT
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