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SwiftRH
United States105 Posts
its fine to nerf carriers but i think that carrier is what keeps pvz winrate up. toss seems to have serious issues trading on the ground Hydra buff is more for dealing with sky Terran/mass raven than Carriers, and PvZ is basically 50/50, maybe 1% in favor of Z. nope pretty sure its carriers. yeah the win rate is less then 50% with broken carriers logically what should happens when u nerf protoss and buff zerg. hmmm i think protoss will become even stronger... .... | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
If my maths are correct the number of mines required to one shot several adepts/zealots/stalkers actually won't change, so this is definitely a big nerf vs oracles and single targets, but the interaction vs many gateway units remains the same widow mines in pvt don't interact with gateway units like that. the number of widow mine shots to kill a particular gateway unit doesn't matter that much in a lot of fights. the widow mine shots soften up the army. each mine that hits the protoss army is like a psionic storm. the marines and marauders have range and fast movement speed and a high rate of fire so their damage is consistent and reliable. marine marauder vs gateway units can snowball quickly in favor of the terran. as soon as the terran judges that they have enough dps to stand and fight, they mow everything down. the total amount of damage the widow mines are doing, spread across the whole protoss army, regardless of whether they're getting killing blows or not, is really important in these fights. each mine that goes off, reducing the total hp pool of the whole protoss army, brings the terran closer to having control of the fight and letting them adjust what kind of moves they make (ie they can stand and fight and chase) | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 28 2017 05:55 NonY wrote: widow mines in pvt don't interact with gateway units like that. the number of widow mine shots to kill a particular gateway unit doesn't matter that much in a lot of fights. the widow mine shots soften up the army. each mine that hits the protoss army is like a psionic storm. the marines and marauders have range and fast movement speed and such a high rate of fire so their damage is consistent and reliable. marine marauder vs gateway units can snowball quickly in favor of the terran. as soon as the terran judges that they have enough dps to stand and fight, they mow everything down. the total amount of damage the widow mines are doing, spread across the whole protoss army, regardless of whether they're getting killing blows or not, is really important in these fights. True but then does removing the bonus to splash still makes sense to you? Or do you prefer blizzards approach? | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On January 28 2017 05:45 Solar424 wrote: Hydra buff is more for dealing with sky Terran/mass raven than Carriers, and PvZ is basically 50/50, maybe 1% in favor of Z. I dont give a shit about TvZ. But im 100% sure there is another way to help zerg deal with mech or w/e. Dont even think thats a problem tbh. Why do these buffs always results in disaster for protoss? Hydra is already a core unit for zerg in pvz. Along with banelings. 2 most commonly used units in the MU. Why do they keep buffing them w/o compensating protoss? Carrier will be nerfed and this will be the end of skytoss and we are left with nerfed colosi, unusable disruptor against buffed banes/hydras, not even mentioning that zerg got ravager to counter FF (and more), lurker, new SH in LotV while Protoss got..... adepts (an ok harass unit recently severly nerfed). | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2654 Posts
I guess is back to mass marines or die trying, but I guess that MU has been like that since forever anyway. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On January 28 2017 05:35 Musicus wrote: I mean, ling/bling/ravager running into archons is honestly getting boring after over a year. I don't think their change is good, but something should be done. They said they wanted to redesign the Hydra and that just has not happened yet. A redesign is fine, but a buff isn't a redesign. Hydras, like ravagers, are already strong if they have something tanking for them. This would just make them stronger without and a lot more resilient against storm. | ||
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LHK
204 Posts
On January 28 2017 05:55 NonY wrote: widow mines in pvt don't interact with gateway units like that. the number of widow mine shots to kill a particular gateway unit doesn't matter that much in a lot of fights. the widow mine shots soften up the army. each mine that hits the protoss army is like a psionic storm. the marines and marauders have range and fast movement speed and a high rate of fire so their damage is consistent and reliable. marine marauder vs gateway units can snowball quickly in favor of the terran. as soon as the terran judges that they have enough dps to stand and fight, they mow everything down. the total amount of damage the widow mines are doing, spread across the whole protoss army, regardless of whether they're getting killing blows or not, is really important in these fights. each mine that goes off, reducing the total hp pool of the whole protoss army, brings the terran closer to having control of the fight and letting them adjust what kind of moves they make (ie they can stand and fight and chase) this is really important to understand and thanks for writing it out. I just worry that it's not enough, that terran will end up just making 2 or 3 more mines to compensate. They're so cheap, there's no reason not to make them in TvP right now and very little risk of being punished if you lose them. | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
On January 28 2017 05:57 ArtyK wrote: True but then does removing the bonus to splash still makes sense to you? Or do you prefer blizzards approach? my opinion is that they should lower the splash damage and keep the primary target damage high enough to 1 shot an oracle. doing both at once seems extreme. but maybe they prefer to test both at once. making this change on the test map doesn't necessarily mean that they think it's most likely the correct solution. it just means they think it'll yield the most useful test results atm. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On January 28 2017 05:50 Charoisaur wrote: Uhm... nobody plays "skyterran/mass raven" Lots of people, including Avilo of all people, have said that mass Raven is OP. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 28 2017 06:03 Solar424 wrote: Lots of people, including Avilo of all people, have said that mass Raven is OP. Avilo being the main source of reliable feedback, gotcha | ||
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aeonsies
United States29 Posts
Also I'm sorry Oracles can wreck mineral lines if you don't move them or defend against them (which Terran has multiple units to do this). Would you like to trade places where a single unseen WM wrecks 5-7 workers in the blink of an eye with no warning? | ||
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Elentos
55555 Posts
On January 28 2017 06:08 ArtyK wrote: Avilo being the main source of reliable feedback, gotcha Well, in this specific case avilo should know. Few people turtle to ravens as much as he does. Ravens are pretty stupid though to be perfectly honest. Starting with the fact that auto turrets feel like they one-shot everything. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 28 2017 06:10 Elentos wrote: Well, in this specific case avilo should know. Few people turtle to ravens as much as he does. Ravens are pretty stupid though to be perfectly honest. Starting with the fact that auto turrets feel like they one-shot everything. yeah but he does it at low gm level for a reason...do you ever see mass ravens in pro games? Why would that hydra buff ever be for skyterran >> | ||
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Penev
28500 Posts
We'll get there eventually ppl, one unit at a time | ||
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Elentos
55555 Posts
On January 28 2017 06:12 ArtyK wrote: yeah but he does it at low gm level for a reason...do you ever see mass ravens in pro games? Why would that hydra buff ever be for skyterran >> I mean, I do watch TY's stream...  The hydra buff doesn't do anything against ravens. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On January 28 2017 06:10 aeonsies wrote: In what world should a 75/25 unit one shot a 150/150 unit, this should have never been a thing. Also I'm sorry Oracles can wreck mineral lines if you don't move them or defend against them (which Terran has multiple units to do this). Would you like to trade places where a single unseen WM wrecks 5-7 workers in the blink of an eye with no warning? Nah u got it all wrong, these are terrans. They spam marines through reactors, call that skill and dont bother protecting their mineral lines. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 28 2017 06:13 Elentos wrote: I mean, I do watch TY's stream... The hydra buff doesn't do anything against ravens. he uses mass raven in tvz? :p | ||
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Elentos
55555 Posts
Out of all the high level Korean players who stream he's definitely the biggest troll and he's definitely made the most ravens and battlecruisers. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 28 2017 06:16 Elentos wrote: Out of all the high level Korean players who stream he's definitely the biggest troll and he's definitely made the most ravens and battlecruisers. But i'm too lazy to setup vlc to watch afreeca -_- | ||
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