EPTCommunity Feedback Update - January 27 - Page 11
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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PPN
France248 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On January 31 2017 22:11 PPN wrote: While the nature of the nerf can be debated, I don't understand why the hell some Terran players keep whining. What games are you even playing/watching? PvT winrate has been at an all-time low around 42% for the last 2 months. The matchup is broken. Something must be done. Also those who complain Terran always get nerfed the quickest sure don't remember the GomTvT era huh. I haven't watched a single game, but the last balance patch happened in May. According to Aligulac, PvT started to swing towards T around the beginning of December. My question is, what caused the swing? | ||
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TheKhyira
115 Posts
On January 31 2017 22:22 Ghanburighan wrote: I haven't watched a single game, but the last balance patch happened in May. According to Aligulac, PvT started to swing towards T around the beginning of December. My question is, what caused the swing? We had patch 3.8 at the end of november. I think it´s important to keep in mind that after such a major update it does take some time for players to adjust. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On January 31 2017 22:24 TheKhyira wrote: We had patch 3.8 at the end of november. I think it´s important to keep in mind that after such a major update it does take some time for players to adjust. Thanks. Liquipedia didn't have "balance changes" but "multiplayer" this time, so I overlooked it. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
On January 31 2017 22:22 Ghanburighan wrote: I haven't watched a single game, but the last balance patch happened in May. According to Aligulac, PvT started to swing towards T around the beginning of December. My question is, what caused the swing? Mappool is very important in winrates. | ||
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icesergio
Italy31 Posts
5 "How will we defend against oracles? We are doomed, damn you blizz!1! Omg gg bfg" By I don't know, let me think, I can feel it, it's coming.... A MISSILE TURRET I want my million dollars right now To which terran will reply "well smart !@#, get a cannon and you are protected against widow mines, see? No nerf needed" Ha! Widow mines don't come in alone, the cannon will auto-target what is attacking it (marines or marauders or whatever it is) and unless your attention is right there at the right split second to split off probes by sacking at least 1 per widow mine, protecting the cannon because if you opened fast forge your robo will be slightly delayed which means you might not have mobile detection ready. By parking a turret in the mineral line you can forget about it, it will do it's job and unless the toss is making a stupid amount of oracles that's just it, harassment from oracles is denied. But noooo, u wot m8? Who's got the time for that, I'm gonna play Bio and will build an e-bay anyways but turrets are for pussies. Oh irony, please do come and take me away... "Oh no, Zealot/Archon will be a thing again, those pesky mineral dump units with the ridiculous op charge will kill us" As far as I know Marines only cost 50 minerals (which makes them a mineral dump) and have stimpack, marauders are 25 gas and have stimpack, medivacs are 100 gas and have the "press b to go faster " button as well. The whole MMM composition is pretty low on gas, albeit when you do start mixing in libs and tanks it does get a little more vespene intensive. So what is the problem, we are fighting on fair arms, MMM vs Zealot/Archon share many similarities, I don't see why Zealot/Archon shouldn't be viable because a bunch of 75/25 2 supply burrowed mines that deny any melee range attacks... I see a lot of people advancing counter-propositions like "make the turret not require an engineering bay" Do you or do you not realize that a "nerfed" (so to speak) widow mine will leave an oracle with about 15 hp left? Do you know that 3 marines kill a 15 hp oracle? Do you know that even if your poor cyclone has "terrible" AA with 1 lock on it can get an oracle? Do you know 2 "nerfed" mines kill an oracle, and that if you were going for a drop you would have had 2 mines anyways? Well, you might say, Zerg has it easy, Zerg has Spores that don't require evo chambers, to which I say, correct, however: At about 4 minutes (regular in-base stargate oracle timing) or if proxying about 3 and a half minutes, give or take the Zerg most probably won't have Lair, which means no AA unit apart from the Queen, but the Queen doesn't deal the damage of a widow mine or of a lock on, with the last 2 being far superior to a queen in terms of damage output. It is REQUIRED for the Zerg to have non evo-chamber AA, because at 4 minutes they don't have mobile AA apart from the Queen, which in itself doesn't deal unit breaking apocalyptic damage and off creep it is so slow you'd be better off pulling drones off the line and into the queen to be protected. This just doesn't compare and doesn't work that way for our Terran friends, a Terran by 4 minutes could have 6 marines, 2, 3 or even 4 cyclones, 2-3 widow (I don't mean they have all these units at the same time, these are just examples of what a 4 minute army COULD look like) mines, hell, they might even have a viking/liberator if for whatever reason they are REALLY rushing a starport out. If the Terran goes CC first well then you kind of asked for it pal, it's one of the risks associated with going expansion first before tech. I would like to recall the 2013-2014 era for Protoss, back when it was Terran asking for the nerfs because supposedly Protoss was too strong, many requests varied from Zealot/Archon nerfs to blink stalker nerfs. The most desired nerf however was to the Colossus You see, you, Terrans, the same people posting now that the Widow Mine is completely fine were absolutely dying for a Colossus nerf: It dealt too much damage, it was too big, it was too this or too that, until in the end at the start of LoTV it was hammered down, it was killed, damage output was cut because this towering robot was too much to handle for you. You Terrans, the same people saying that a 75/25 unit should sack probes, zealots, melee range attacking units, oracles, warp prisms whined and complained that the Colossus was too strong against what it was made to counter, aka the MMM bio ball. Oh hypocrisy, oh irony, please do come and lift me away!  A 300/200 6 supply 1 minute build time unit was nerfed because a bunch of 50 mineral dump machine gunners and 75/25 grenade throwers tier 1, Barracks tech, low vespene, low supply and amazing scalabilty with upgrades couldn't beat a composition of tier 3.5 (if we count the thermal lance upgrade, another 200/200 upgrade) expensive, both resource and tech wise units. It's like sending a skinny guy to a wrestling match with a 200 pound slab of muscle. IF your opponent BOTHERED to commit to expensive tech and units why do you suddenly expect to beat it with units that you unlock by the 1:30 minute mark. You must also bother to tech up, I know it's troublesome, and for you expert players playing the hardest race who swear by micro and think that using battlecruisers and banshees is for pussies it's something that you must yet comprehend, I mean, the most advanced tech you have ever researched against Protoss was and still is stimpack It is so hard to bash when the ball is on your side, when you are dominating the game, it is so easy to blame the player playing the other race because supposedly he needs to "L2P" which is what you are doing, posts in this very thread confirm it. "Libs are fine, you need to micro, WMs are fine, you need to micro" Remember however that in a not so distant pass you were the ones whining and complaining asking for a nerf to something that directly countered your MMM composition. Now we are asking (and finally someone has listened) for nerfs to units that are just too good, you see, unlike Colossi (which were made to counter MMM) we are asking a nerf to things like Liberators, what are liberators? Why were liberators even put into the game? Liberators were conceived as a pain in the !@#, shift clicking every base, taking a few probes there, a few here and then setting them up into chokes so that the opponent either fights tucked in a little corner or has to literally WALK around half the map to intercept reinforcements, for you to park your liberators the opposite way (now facing the opponent) and hopefully then get better trades by fighting in the open and not tucked into some corner near an expansion and/or base. Widow Mines were made as a defensive early/mid game measure, made to counter blink, 1/2 base all ins, proxy shenanigans. Now, with Protoss being in the state that it is, no longer being the playmaker race but rather "Let's hope he doesn't attack so that I can tech to fleet beacon/robo bay and put up a good fight" race there is no need for WMs to be that strong, a unit that can be parked, burrowed and that gets at least 5 probes if the Toss is microing an attack at the natural or just doesn't have the skill at the lower levels of play to be constantly looking at the minimap and focusing the Mine right has it comes near the probes. Widow Mines have shifted from a defensive option to an offensive attacking unit that can literally be used against everything, be it air or ground, be it immortals, stalkers, zealots, colossi, void rays, carriers, Widow Mines will almost always get the value for money. Widow Mines are a TvP Terran disruptor, sure, they have a lower damage output, but they are burrowed, always hit, always deal some form of damage and cost 75 minerals and 25 fart gas to make, not to mention the IMO absolutely nonsense +shields damage (were they being space racist when they made these things??) You must now realize that the dusk of your era is soon approaching and hopefully these changes will at least discourage plays so cheesy that you can smell the cheddar from your monitor. At least Oracles need attention because they'll just start attacking buildings or units that are attacking them, so they require at least SOME focus fire, shift clicking a base or pressing "E" to burrow isn't enough. It is easy to forget when you were the beggar asking for help, now that you are privileged you refuse to remember and act like the people that preceded you. This notion applies to everything in life, even Starcraft 2 | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
edit: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/7918652/1/Sergio/ i guess youre just quoting urself from another forum u posted this garbage? if u ever do manage to learn how to play the game ur going to look back on this post and cringe so hard. honestly dude, this is the goldest shit ive ever read lmao | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
On January 31 2017 22:24 TheKhyira wrote: We had patch 3.8 at the end of november. I think it´s important to keep in mind that after such a major update it does take some time for players to adjust. I highly doubt it is a matter of adjusting. With so many Terrans units buffed at the same time and weaker Adepts since 3.8, it is not very hard to see how it is very difficult/near impossible on some maps to defend mass Cyclone pressure or any 1-1-1 variants, and how Protoss is forced to make more Stalkers than usual (needed to defend Libs/WM but very hard to keep alive because unfair Freedom zone on some maps and Tanks/Cyclones/Vikings hurting them a lot more than before) and enter mid-game at a severe disadvantage. | ||
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bObA
France300 Posts
On January 31 2017 20:09 ihatevideogames wrote: Terran always has to 'figure it out' or 'wait for the meta to settle' when they're losing to other races. Remember Adepts? Remember 8 armor Ultras? These things were in the game for months. But when Terran is winning alot, it's nerfhammer in a week. Remember how the balance team killed Skyterran in 2 weeks? Even though noone made Vipers against it? Where was the 'time to figure it out' back then? so true man so true... | ||
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bObA
France300 Posts
On January 31 2017 21:03 PinoKotsBeer wrote: I fully agree with your comment. Also the "new" cyclone got nerfed before release, but than reverted because its was beyond trash. Exact ! | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Kikirik1
45 Posts
Why someone will go for tier3 if him oponent just counter him with tier2 units, its what kill this game for me, we just wana to see tier3 big battle and nukes, no mass marines/maruder (nerf them blizzard, no liberators and buff BC and nukes). Sorry for my bad english | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20521248/call-to-action-january-31-balance-testing-1-31-2017 | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Balance changes now live in the Testing queue http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20521248/call-to-action-january-31-balance-testing-1-31-2017 They've also boosted the +shield impact damage back to +35 in the test map. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20753345206 | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On January 31 2017 20:09 ihatevideogames wrote: Terran always has to 'figure it out' or 'wait for the meta to settle' when they're losing to other races. Remember Adepts? Remember 8 armor Ultras? These things were in the game for months. But when Terran is winning alot, it's nerfhammer in a week. Remember how the balance team killed Skyterran in 2 weeks? Even though noone made Vipers against it? Where was the 'time to figure it out' back then? The fuck are you whining, it's true that protoss was the strongest race for some time in LoTV but they have received several nerfs. And Terrans have been whining about ultras forever while the matchup was balanced, all I heard was whining for a Ultra nerf without suggestions how to give Zerg midgame buffs to compensate for it. Now Terran got a lot of buffs in a game that was fairly balanced while Zerg and Protoss got a lot lesser impactful buffs and at the same time also got nerfs. What a surprise that Terran suddenly starts winning, Protoss and Zerg players should just adapt to Terran getting a lot stronger right? The patch in december was meant to change the design of some units and to make some lesser used units a bit more useful because some matchups were getting a bit stale, it wasn't done to buff certain races compared to others. Too bad the design changes weren't quite ballsy enough to really change the game, but that is a whole other problem. | ||
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icesergio
Italy31 Posts
On February 01 2017 03:19 c0sm0naut wrote: ^rofl, i hope ur mocking this poster edit: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/7918652/1/Sergio/ i guess youre just quoting urself from another forum u posted this garbage? if u ever do manage to learn how to play the game ur going to look back on this post and cringe so hard. honestly dude, this is the goldest shit ive ever read lmao I smell a terran player  | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
use. What if they just make mines more expensive? Would TvZ even work anymore (4M)? | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On February 02 2017 05:53 WeddingEpisode wrote: What about mine burrow marks? Ravagers and banelings almost completely nullify mines' use. What if they just make mines more expensive? Would TvZ even work anymore (4M)? It's almost as if units are supposed to have counters. | ||
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