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VasHeR
166 Posts
On April 15 2016 05:06 NonY wrote: Is this a private investigation? Show the evidence rofl. Why does this have no details? I want to see the records myself, not what some person I have no reason to trust believes the records indicate. boom | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
On April 15 2016 12:55 Quineotio wrote: Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair? How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship? Or do you feel that you personally should be involved? good post. personally i would ve liked to see a harsher treatment for people who cheat in any kind of form. but the tl community was always pretty lenient towards cheaters in foreign scene, sadly. | ||
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Jealous
10387 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 15 2016 12:55 Quineotio wrote: Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair? How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship? Or do you feel that you personally should be involved? Boom. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
Haters gonna hate, cheaters gonna cheat. | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
I know it was his last year unless he had good wcs results ( and this seem compromised kek ) | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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Homunculus159
Austria220 Posts
On April 15 2016 08:34 trada wrote: I dont find this harsh at all. Its not just about those 3 players and enforcing the rules. Its about sending a message to those players who couldnt (yet) be caught and prevention of abusive behaviour. Blizzard suspected there would be more players involved in win trading and by increasing the punishment when caught this could have a deterrent effect on those players. It could also make win trading or other forms of cheating less appealing to players who think about abusing the system but havent actually done anything yet. Pretty much this. The rulebook was released before the Ladder challenge started and I doubt Blizzard would ban them if they werent a 100% sure | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On April 15 2016 15:44 Daswollvieh wrote: How come that when someone breaks rules in Korea they should be flayed in the streets and when someone does in Europe punishment is too harsh? Yes, exactly my thoughts. | ||
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HornyHerring
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On April 15 2016 13:07 blamekilly wrote: Aaahhhhh.... Where does it say MajOr used the barcode account to win trade during WCS competition? I can see how others can interpret this differently, but I think it's just horribly worded: Upon examining these matches and accounts in question, it was found that two players in the top 25 rankings had access to the barcoded Terran account: MajOr and MarineLorD. To me this means they weren't just seeing Major logging into the barcode account months ago or something unrelated, but actually pulled his IP / Mac / whatever identifying information on the account during the fishy games. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On April 15 2016 15:44 Daswollvieh wrote: How come that when someone breaks rules in Korea they should be flayed in the streets and when someone does in Europe punishment is too harsh? Hmm I think the ones who want to see absurdly heavy punishments are roughly the same in both cases. Also, both cases cannot really be compared since one involves the actual judiciary system while the other is just Blizzard being lawmaker and judge at the same time. | ||
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Normanton
Finland16 Posts
What comes to "showing evidence" I feel they definitely should not do that. It must contain a lot of player personal information that is not for other to see. If Major wants to redeem himself then he can of course release the replays etc. But tbh when I read the two statements from Major I facepalmed. It was like a small child trying to come up with a explanations why he is innocent. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On April 15 2016 16:37 OtherWorld wrote: Hmm I think the ones who want to see absurdly heavy punishments are roughly the same in both cases. Also, both cases cannot really be compared since one involves the actual judiciary system while the other is just Blizzard being lawmaker and judge at the same time. One was a bigger fraud with bribes and stuff. This is the exactly same thing without any money involved(probably). Also I am not sure if Europe has even charges that could follow match fixing. | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On April 15 2016 12:55 Quineotio wrote: Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair? How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship? Or do you feel that you personally should be involved? Yup. The thing is, I agree that more transparency in terms of the evaluation process would make me rest easier on this ruling. However, there's no good way of going about releasing such private information to the general public...you would never expect a court of law to do so unless it were a non-confidential case, and I'm aware that the situation is VERY different from a public court, but it's just not acceptable to release private information such as chat logs and specific account details to the general public.... Can you imagine what Reddit would do with that information? These players don't deserve to have such information lightly given away. | ||
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heqat
Switzerland96 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On April 15 2016 15:44 Daswollvieh wrote: How come that when someone breaks rules in Korea they should be flayed in the streets and when someone does in Europe punishment is too harsh? Matchfixing isn't like this at all. The closest thing I can think of off-hand in Korean SC2 is whe Byun let Coca win in some online tournament that happened to have a Code A spot attached to it. I think most people thought that their punishment was way too harsh (which it was). | ||
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Durenas
Canada45 Posts
On April 15 2016 15:44 Daswollvieh wrote: How come that when someone breaks rules in Korea they should be flayed in the streets and when someone does in Europe punishment is too harsh? From what I could tell, that attitude was mostly from South Koreans themselves. The foreigner response was much milder. In fact, some Koreans basically said that we didn't understand the damage it could do to the scene, which was untrue, but speaks of a harder line towards cheaters in general. | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On April 15 2016 12:55 Quineotio wrote: Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair? How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship? Or do you feel that you personally should be involved? Oh god thank you. There is reason left on these boards after all. | ||
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aringadingding
481 Posts
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PPN
France248 Posts
On April 15 2016 07:05 ddayzy wrote: Why is it "right" for them to share information with you? You are not the judge on this case, what you think is frankly irrelevant. They conducted a investegation, found the evidence sufficient to punish the players in question and did so. Why do you think you have right to any information besides that? They were'nt "shoot first and asking questions later". They conducted a investegation, came to a conclusion and acted on that conclusion. You are not "telling it to their face", you are on a internet forum demanding information to a investegation you are not a part of. They did shoot first and ask questions later. Major was not even contacted beforehand either for questions or even for being notified about the punishement. They were unlikely done with investigating too when they took actions otherwise there is no reason it would take them a week to write a full statement. They even stated that the investigation was "ongoing" and used a very strong and meaningful word "match-fixing". The way Blizzard handled the case regardless of whether you agree with their conclusion is so full of bullshit, I don't know how this is defendable. Sure Major's reputation is pretty well known but this is not enough to condamn him. I have no reason to believe Blizzard either with so many signs of screw up, especially when Major is the only convicted while others get out with nothing or just a warning. Until proven wrong by overwhelming evidence, I am not buying their side of the story because I believe in presumption of innocence. As if wintrading can happen alone, and if leaving game is unfair, then anyone leaving game is suspicious and should be investigated. Their ruling is vague and credibility on this case thin as hell. I am on an Internet forum that is read by Blizzard employees as shown multiple times in the past. So yeah I am telling to their face, the only public way to be more direct would be to write an email to them. And again how about you stop antagonizing people who ask for transparency? God forbids me for thinking something is wrong and asking for that. I disagree with you and Blizzard's way on this case, I'm entitled to my opinion and the ability to voice it, get off people's back trying to make them think otherwise. | ||
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