On April 15 2016 05:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: Wait so because their points are used for seeding but not invites does that mean they count toward Blizzcon? Is being at Blizzcon considered being seeded as a top 8 player or an invite based on being in the top 8 points?
Yeah this line was particularly confusing to me. Whats the difference between a seed and an invite, anyways?
The difference is if you dont get invited, you won't be seeded against an opponent.
For example (to make it easier I take last year's WCS system,) if you were in the top #16 in WCS Point ranking you got invited to Blizzcon.
If you were exactly #16 in the ranking, you get seeded against #1 in WCS points. then #2 gets seeded against #15 and #3 against #14. And so on. So eventually(!) having a good seed helps to get an 'easier' opponent.
Still doesn't change the fact that your invite points won't be enough for top 16 (or top 8 this year, I'm not familiar with this years system yet).
I think if Blizzard has proof, like they say, the punishment is correct and hurts just enough. You have to have some amount of criminal energy to do such shit and they should be punished for it to feel it hard. Plus they are kinda destroying the scene which they should be punished for as well.
On April 15 2016 05:17 NonY wrote: Why shouldn't they publish the proof? If they're 100% sure they made zero errors and no judgment calls were involved? Personally I want to know how they proved major was lying. What was the evidence that made it conclusive, as opposed to the inconclusive cases that only resulted in warnings?
Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair?
How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship?
Or do you feel that you personally should be involved?
Yup.
The thing is, I agree that more transparency in terms of the evaluation process would make me rest easier on this ruling. However, there's no good way of going about releasing such private information to the general public...you would never expect a court of law to do so unless it were a non-confidential case, and I'm aware that the situation is VERY different from a public court, but it's just not acceptable to release private information such as chat logs and specific account details to the general public....
Can you imagine what Reddit would do with that information? These players don't deserve to have such information lightly given away.
It's not a public court and there is no crime. Also releasing data to the general public is tricky but you could ask the parties involved for starters. Major made it pretty obvious that he was not contacted and had actually a hard time contacting Blizzard for inquiry.
we have no guarantees that Major is giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. even if he believes he is being truthful it is through the prism of his own biased perception.
On April 15 2016 10:49 BronzeKnee wrote: Did anyone turn Major in? I guess we won't know that, maybe everyone did, but that isn't what Blizzard said. Blizzard just said he was giving away free wins, so they punished him. By the way, this whole thing is made so much easier if Blizzard just doesn't use ladder and has real qualifiers.
Blizzard is donating less and less resources to competitive SC2 so they must use less expensive qualifying methods. the less money you spend the harder it is to catch cheaters. Expect next year's WCS/GSL to have an even larger ladder component because of its low cost.
the revenue SC2 generates does not justify increased donations into SC2 esports.
how about blizzards stops meddling with starcraft 2 as an esport and just lets tournament organizers do what they want to do? yes? run the events how they would like the events to run?
that way we don't need blizzard to meddle with the competitive scene
Blizzard is great at making games and really mediocre at running competitive leagues... i'd like to see them leave. There will still be plenty of shit-storms without them. Its not like Blizzard leaving solves everything.
However, with ATVI making this new eSports division it appears their corporate overlords are moving in the opposite direction.
For years the community begged for blizzard to be involved and now people want them to leave for enforcing the rules and punishing cheaters? Are you for real?
The hypocrisy in Blizzard decision is beyond what I thought would be possible.
Yeah let's ban 3 players over win trading and sharing accounts, this will be a clear statement that as a progammer you don't mess with the rules. It's not like it has been done previously without any consequences. So previously rules were shady at best, and now it's a ban for not respecting it, plus disregarding your previous achievements as a player...makes no sense. Banning them for the current qualifier seems ok enough, but resetting their points and disqualifying them for Tours is far beyond acceptable.
But again, since Blizzard took Starcraft 2 under its wing after their deal with Kespa, it has been a downhill trip to hell regarding organisation of events. And don't get me started on the WCS region lock.
On April 15 2016 14:27 Lil_nooblet wrote: Not surprising that Major wasn't telling the truth. His excuse was terrible.
Fuck you. Don't make up trash to feel better about yourself. Nobody said he was lying or cheating. Blizzard retracted their statement about major giving wins on ladder. They were pissed that marinelord jumped on Major's eu account and traded wins. That is why he was punished.
so stupid from Blizzard - what a collapsing wcs system in 2016-.- just bad. so natch that they players do such stuff while makeing ladder to qualification modus for wcs - one shouldn't have done this shit-.-
On April 15 2016 05:17 NonY wrote: Why shouldn't they publish the proof? If they're 100% sure they made zero errors and no judgment calls were involved? Personally I want to know how they proved major was lying. What was the evidence that made it conclusive, as opposed to the inconclusive cases that only resulted in warnings?
Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair?
How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship?
Or do you feel that you personally should be involved?
Yup.
The thing is, I agree that more transparency in terms of the evaluation process would make me rest easier on this ruling. However, there's no good way of going about releasing such private information to the general public...you would never expect a court of law to do so unless it were a non-confidential case, and I'm aware that the situation is VERY different from a public court, but it's just not acceptable to release private information such as chat logs and specific account details to the general public....
Can you imagine what Reddit would do with that information? These players don't deserve to have such information lightly given away.
It's not a public court and there is no crime. Also releasing data to the general public is tricky but you could ask the parties involved for starters. Major made it pretty obvious that he was not contacted and had actually a hard time contacting Blizzard for inquiry.
we have no guarantees that Major is giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. even if he believes he is being truthful it is through the prism of his own biased perception.
On April 15 2016 10:49 BronzeKnee wrote: Did anyone turn Major in? I guess we won't know that, maybe everyone did, but that isn't what Blizzard said. Blizzard just said he was giving away free wins, so they punished him. By the way, this whole thing is made so much easier if Blizzard just doesn't use ladder and has real qualifiers.
Blizzard is donating less and less resources to competitive SC2 so they must use less expensive qualifying methods. the less money you spend the harder it is to catch cheaters. Expect next year's WCS/GSL to have an even larger ladder component because of its low cost.
the revenue SC2 generates does not justify increased donations into SC2 esports.
how about blizzards stops meddling with starcraft 2 as an esport and just lets tournament organizers do what they want to do? yes? run the events how they would like the events to run?
that way we don't need blizzard to meddle with the competitive scene
Blizzard is great at making games and really mediocre at running competitive leagues... i'd like to see them leave. There will still be plenty of shit-storms without them. Its not like Blizzard leaving solves everything.
However, with ATVI making this new eSports division it appears their corporate overlords are moving in the opposite direction.
For years the community begged for blizzard to be involved and now people want them to leave for enforcing the rules and punishing cheaters? Are you for real?
i can not speak for the community ; i can only speak for myself.
James Naismith made a great game; he invented basketball. Does that mean he should be the commissioner of the NBA?
Is Don King the guy you go to when you want to change a rule in boxing?
making a game and running a competitive league are 2 very different things.
I've never wanted Blizzard involved deeply in the competitive scene. I wanted them to write a cheque... and have the balls to put that cheque in the hands of the right promoter and let that promoter do their thing.
ATVI created a separate eSports division because of how different game making and event promotion are.
its time for Blizzard to GTFO, write a cheque and let the new eSports division do their thing. it was time 5 years ago. and its still time now.
On April 15 2016 15:44 Daswollvieh wrote: How come that when someone breaks rules in Korea they should be flayed in the streets and when someone does in Europe punishment is too harsh?
Hmm I think the ones who want to see absurdly heavy punishments are roughly the same in both cases. Also, both cases cannot really be compared since one involves the actual judiciary system while the other is just Blizzard being lawmaker and judge at the same time.
One was a bigger fraud with bribes and stuff. This is the exactly same thing without any money involved(probably). Also I am not sure if Europe has even charges that could follow match fixing.
Exactly the same thing? Wtf? See Poopi's post :
On April 15 2016 18:52 Poopi wrote:
On April 15 2016 15:44 Daswollvieh wrote: How come that when someone breaks rules in Korea they should be flayed in the streets and when someone does in Europe punishment is too harsh?
Are you seriously comparing : a) losing on purpose or fixing game length or fixing whatever in official proleague and/or GSL/SSL matches, receiving in exchange various sums of money from Korean criminals, so that said criminals can bet on various things ; to b) giving 20 or so ladder points to help a friend in a very badly designed ladder qualification system? :D.
Okay :o.
Truth be told the only 'bad' thing that MLorD and DnS did was not being cautious enough and getting caught in the process, because it would be foolish not to abuse such a bad qualification system, at least to show Blizzard that they should not have used this and should not use this from now on.
As for the legal stuff,
The European legal landscape is not uniform; whilst some countries focus on general offences of corruption or fraud, others have implemented specific sport offences to cope with match-fixing -contained either in their criminal codes (Bulgaria, Spain), sports laws (Cyprus, Poland, Greece) or special criminal laws (Italy, Malta, Portugal).[2] In the UK, betting related match-fixing episodes may be punished under the offence of cheating at gambling. Case law is rare. Few court decisions– applying either general or specific offences- have been identified through the research.[3]
The ladder is a part of that competition at that day thus they were losing on purpose in a competition. The only difference is that it wasn't the main event and no money was involved.
As I said, I don't know whether EU tried to unify this as they tried to unify other things.
Okay let's check the differences clearly : => Lost a game on purpose during a competition : check for both
=> Happened in the main event, on stage, in front of cameras vs happened on ladder (ladder qualifier yes, but ladder nonetheless)
=> Receiving money from criminals to do it (and possibly being involved with a wide criminal scene) vs doing it as a favor for a friend
=> Doing it in a premeditated, artful way vs doing it on the spot
=> Knowing that the sentences were really harsh, based on previous examples, vs having knowledge of the rules less than two days in advance (!!!), as the rules were released on the 7th of April while the matches occured on April 8th. Additionally, the rulebook states a list of sentences, without specifying which kind of sentence can be applied to which offense - which is pretty damn stupid, there is a reason Penal codes don't work like that.
=> Doing stuff involving an actual judiciary court (!) vs doing stuff that doesn't, which basically amounts to being a criminal vs not being one
=> Being subjected to an actual investigation by serious professionals regarded as widely competent vs being subjected to an internal investigation by some random videogame company that prides itself of being a tournament organizer as well
So yes, that's clearly the same thing, if you don't count all the differences, just like a dog and a cat are just the same thing if you don't count all the differences.
The deed itself is the same. Since you believe otherwise then I won't try to persuade you since I won't and you won't persuade me either. OUr views are different and that;s the it. So, nice reading, but no.
Also, is France so different that they haven't though about wintrading as a "nono, that's bad" thing? I am probably really somewhat different. And they say I am morally corrupted xD
The deed itself is the same, in the same way that a soldier killing a fellow soldier who's agonizing and can't get help is the same as a soldier killing a non-hostile civilian. And yes, I think wintrading being "bad" is pretty much a thing in France too. I'm not sure how that's relevant, since I never denied that wintrading was "good" or even "neutral" ; what I am saying is that (1) the punishment given is not proportional to the crime commited and (2) if you say this and the PRIME/saviOr scandals are the same thing, then pretty much everything that has one common point is the same thing too.
On April 16 2016 00:43 MalditoKyo wrote: The hypocrisy in Blizzard decision is beyond what I thought would be possible.
Yeah let's ban 3 players over win trading and sharing accounts, this will be a clear statement that as a progammer you don't mess with the rules. It's not like it has been done previously without any consequences. So previously rules were shady at best, and now it's a ban for not respecting it, plus disregarding your previous achievements as a player...makes no sense. Banning them for the current qualifier seems ok enough, but resetting their points and disqualifying them for Tours is far beyond acceptable.
But again, since Blizzard took Starcraft 2 under its wing after their deal with Kespa, it has been a downhill trip to hell regarding organisation of events. And don't get me started on the WCS region lock.
Dear lord people have a Blizzard hate boner on this forum. If Blizzard didn't take a more active interest in the tournaments most of them would be gone by now since Starcraft 2 isn't exactly draging in viewers by the millions.
Beyond acceptable? How on earth is it up to you to decide what is acceptable? Blizzard is paying for the tournament, they are setting the rules for the tournament and they decide the punishments for breaching those rules.
Also, why is it unacceptable? If this happened in a Kespa run tournament they would be banned for life.
What on earth does your achivements as a player have to do with punishment for match fixing?
On April 16 2016 01:54 SidianTheBard wrote: Players cheated. Players got caught. Players got punished.
Good riddance.
I Agree
There are too many elitist posting shit , just because a couple of their heroes have been caught cheating in this thread.Anyone who cheats and fucks over a fellow player or players deserves to be permanently banned. They are a disgusting set of people who should never be trusted again,good riddance to bad rubbish !!
On April 15 2016 05:17 NonY wrote: Why shouldn't they publish the proof? If they're 100% sure they made zero errors and no judgment calls were involved? Personally I want to know how they proved major was lying. What was the evidence that made it conclusive, as opposed to the inconclusive cases that only resulted in warnings?
Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair?
How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship?
Or do you feel that you personally should be involved?
Yup.
The thing is, I agree that more transparency in terms of the evaluation process would make me rest easier on this ruling. However, there's no good way of going about releasing such private information to the general public...you would never expect a court of law to do so unless it were a non-confidential case, and I'm aware that the situation is VERY different from a public court, but it's just not acceptable to release private information such as chat logs and specific account details to the general public....
Can you imagine what Reddit would do with that information? These players don't deserve to have such information lightly given away.
It's not a public court and there is no crime. Also releasing data to the general public is tricky but you could ask the parties involved for starters. Major made it pretty obvious that he was not contacted and had actually a hard time contacting Blizzard for inquiry.
we have no guarantees that Major is giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. even if he believes he is being truthful it is through the prism of his own biased perception.
On April 15 2016 10:49 BronzeKnee wrote: Did anyone turn Major in? I guess we won't know that, maybe everyone did, but that isn't what Blizzard said. Blizzard just said he was giving away free wins, so they punished him. By the way, this whole thing is made so much easier if Blizzard just doesn't use ladder and has real qualifiers.
Blizzard is donating less and less resources to competitive SC2 so they must use less expensive qualifying methods. the less money you spend the harder it is to catch cheaters. Expect next year's WCS/GSL to have an even larger ladder component because of its low cost.
the revenue SC2 generates does not justify increased donations into SC2 esports.
how about blizzards stops meddling with starcraft 2 as an esport and just lets tournament organizers do what they want to do? yes? run the events how they would like the events to run?
that way we don't need blizzard to meddle with the competitive scene
Blizzard is great at making games and really mediocre at running competitive leagues... i'd like to see them leave. There will still be plenty of shit-storms without them. Its not like Blizzard leaving solves everything.
However, with ATVI making this new eSports division it appears their corporate overlords are moving in the opposite direction.
For years the community begged for blizzard to be involved and now people want them to leave for enforcing the rules and punishing cheaters? Are you for real?
i can not speak for the community ; i can only speak for myself.
James Naismith made a great game; he invented basketball. Does that mean he should be the commissioner of the NBA?
Is Don King the guy you go to when you want to change a rule in boxing?
making a game and running a competitive league are 2 very different things.
I've never wanted Blizzard involved deeply in the competitive scene. I wanted them to write a cheque... and have the balls to put that cheque in the hands of the right promoter and let that promoter do their thing.
ATVI created a separate eSports division because of how different game making and event promotion are.
its time for Blizzard to GTFO, write a cheque and let the new eSports division do their thing. it was time 5 years ago. and its still time now.
I think you'd need a Ouija board for Naismith to be commissioner of the NBA
On April 15 2016 05:17 NonY wrote: Why shouldn't they publish the proof? If they're 100% sure they made zero errors and no judgment calls were involved? Personally I want to know how they proved major was lying. What was the evidence that made it conclusive, as opposed to the inconclusive cases that only resulted in warnings?
Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair?
How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship?
Or do you feel that you personally should be involved?
Yup.
The thing is, I agree that more transparency in terms of the evaluation process would make me rest easier on this ruling. However, there's no good way of going about releasing such private information to the general public...you would never expect a court of law to do so unless it were a non-confidential case, and I'm aware that the situation is VERY different from a public court, but it's just not acceptable to release private information such as chat logs and specific account details to the general public....
Can you imagine what Reddit would do with that information? These players don't deserve to have such information lightly given away.
It's not a public court and there is no crime. Also releasing data to the general public is tricky but you could ask the parties involved for starters. Major made it pretty obvious that he was not contacted and had actually a hard time contacting Blizzard for inquiry.
we have no guarantees that Major is giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. even if he believes he is being truthful it is through the prism of his own biased perception.
On April 15 2016 10:49 BronzeKnee wrote: Did anyone turn Major in? I guess we won't know that, maybe everyone did, but that isn't what Blizzard said. Blizzard just said he was giving away free wins, so they punished him. By the way, this whole thing is made so much easier if Blizzard just doesn't use ladder and has real qualifiers.
Blizzard is donating less and less resources to competitive SC2 so they must use less expensive qualifying methods. the less money you spend the harder it is to catch cheaters. Expect next year's WCS/GSL to have an even larger ladder component because of its low cost.
the revenue SC2 generates does not justify increased donations into SC2 esports.
how about blizzards stops meddling with starcraft 2 as an esport and just lets tournament organizers do what they want to do? yes? run the events how they would like the events to run?
that way we don't need blizzard to meddle with the competitive scene
Blizzard is great at making games and really mediocre at running competitive leagues... i'd like to see them leave. There will still be plenty of shit-storms without them. Its not like Blizzard leaving solves everything.
However, with ATVI making this new eSports division it appears their corporate overlords are moving in the opposite direction.
For years the community begged for blizzard to be involved and now people want them to leave for enforcing the rules and punishing cheaters? Are you for real?
i can not speak for the community ; i can only speak for myself.
James Naismith made a great game; he invented basketball. Does that mean he should be the commissioner of the NBA?
Is Don King the guy you go to when you want to change a rule in boxing?
making a game and running a competitive league are 2 very different things.
I've never wanted Blizzard involved deeply in the competitive scene. I wanted them to write a cheque... and have the balls to put that cheque in the hands of the right promoter and let that promoter do their thing.
ATVI created a separate eSports division because of how different game making and event promotion are.
its time for Blizzard to GTFO, write a cheque and let the new eSports division do their thing. it was time 5 years ago. and its still time now.
I think you'd need a Ouija board for Naismith to be commissioner of the NBA
maybe if Blizzard used a Ouija board to run the WCS it'd be in better shape seriously though, Blizzard is just out of their realm trying to run/micromanage a competitive league.
There was this weekly tournament with a similar situation in Korea. Coca was playing Byun in the finals of the KR weekly, which awards the winner a spot in code A (for some reason, the runner up doesn't get the spot if the 1st place already is in??). Anyway, they both got punished for it, but afaik, this punishment only extended to the weekly tournament (1.5mth ban or something) and the GSL spots were forfeited? see here
Now, I do think it's bad to deliberately forfeit games and try and rig the ladder so you/a friend can qualify. But I think Major's punishment is too severe, and even cutting him from Copa was not necessary. Warnings are good. They let people know exactly where the boundaries are, without being overkill. They are especially good for new leagues and systems, where there is not a clear established set of rules. I hope Blizzard learns as much from this as the players do...
I also agree with the above (and now below) solution of using an isolated, separate ladder. This prevents people who are not qualified (like, because they are from NA or KR and or already qualified!!!!) from influencing the results. The ONLY people who should have an influence on a qualifier are the people capable of qualifying. This isolated ladder for a qualifier solves many of the problems.
On April 15 2016 22:00 Toxi78 wrote: The problem here is that Blizzard themselves created a system that could easily be abused (through what is called perserve incentives in economics theory), in which a player can potentially be already qualified AND still competing OR can't even qualify AND still competing. If you want to keep it a ladder qualification, there are definitely ways to improve the system (though no one system will be perfect). The idea is to create a system where a) players that already qualified cannot compete (unless they REALLY hide) b) only players that can qualify can compete These two rules ensure that every player still involved should have something at stake personnally. This means no more "national qualifiers" before the ladder/mini-tour (how stupid was this idea anyway?) and no more prizepool for any of these qualifications (hint for blizzard: transfer this prizepool towards the prizepool of the actual tournament and divide it amongst players, this essentially means it's the same when it comes to money for ppl who qualified). This goes hand in hand with creating a CLOSED "GM" clone for the duration of the ladder, where only the invited accounts (basically anyone in GM that is not a barcode) are included, and they can ONLY play against one another (hint for blizzard: you already did that 10 years ago with the closed TFT ladder, I guess the technology "just isn't here yet?"). Now this alone should prevent many problems, but here is another idea to add to that. Say you want 16 players. Make this closed ladder last 8 days, and decide that the top2 players at the end of each day are through. Here, look, no more already qualified marinelord vs dns matches, no more smurfs, barcodes, shared accounts and all in all that system seems quite easy to put in place? besides the cherry picking of the players at first (which really only has to be done once, the next list can just be refreshed easily), all you need to do is 1°) make a closed ladder 2°) cut off 2 players each day. Hope this is interesting to someone...
This goes hand in hand with creating a CLOSED "GM" clone for the duration of the ladder, where only the invited accounts (basically anyone in GM that is not a barcode) are included, and they can ONLY play against one another (hint for blizzard: you already did that 10 years ago with the closed TFT ladder, I guess the technology "just isn't here yet?").
This goes hand in hand with creating a CLOSED "GM" clone for the duration of the ladder, where only the invited accounts (basically anyone in GM that is not a barcode) are included, and they can ONLY play against one another (hint for blizzard: you already did that 10 years ago with the closed TFT ladder, I guess the technology "just isn't here yet?").
Great and exciting idea !
What would be the point of an open ladder competition then? Cuz that's what this is supposed to be after all. Like when QXC, despite being long retired, finished top-16 just to see if he could do it.
Edit: Or was the open part of the ladder competition only applied to the start of WCS?
On April 15 2016 05:17 NonY wrote: Why shouldn't they publish the proof? If they're 100% sure they made zero errors and no judgment calls were involved? Personally I want to know how they proved major was lying. What was the evidence that made it conclusive, as opposed to the inconclusive cases that only resulted in warnings?
Why do you deserve to see the proof? Do you think the public are better positioned to make a decision than Blizzard? Should there be a detailed public review of every decision made by Blizzard, or is this a special case? Are you asking for a public trial instead of an internal investigation? If so, how would you conduct this to make sure it's fair?
How do you ensure player privacy? Should private chat logs and match history be released to the public whenever anyone is accused of something, or only when "convicted"? If you are releasing private chat logs, how far back do you go - a month? 6 months? If there are confidential, personal elements to the communications between players, should the incriminating parts be cut out and presented out of context (i.e. private sections removed)? If you are censoring private information, who is responsible for the censorship?
Or do you feel that you personally should be involved?
Yup.
The thing is, I agree that more transparency in terms of the evaluation process would make me rest easier on this ruling. However, there's no good way of going about releasing such private information to the general public...you would never expect a court of law to do so unless it were a non-confidential case, and I'm aware that the situation is VERY different from a public court, but it's just not acceptable to release private information such as chat logs and specific account details to the general public....
Can you imagine what Reddit would do with that information? These players don't deserve to have such information lightly given away.
It's not a public court and there is no crime. Also releasing data to the general public is tricky but you could ask the parties involved for starters. Major made it pretty obvious that he was not contacted and had actually a hard time contacting Blizzard for inquiry.
we have no guarantees that Major is giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. even if he believes he is being truthful it is through the prism of his own biased perception.
On April 15 2016 10:49 BronzeKnee wrote: Did anyone turn Major in? I guess we won't know that, maybe everyone did, but that isn't what Blizzard said. Blizzard just said he was giving away free wins, so they punished him. By the way, this whole thing is made so much easier if Blizzard just doesn't use ladder and has real qualifiers.
Blizzard is donating less and less resources to competitive SC2 so they must use less expensive qualifying methods. the less money you spend the harder it is to catch cheaters. Expect next year's WCS/GSL to have an even larger ladder component because of its low cost.
the revenue SC2 generates does not justify increased donations into SC2 esports.
how about blizzards stops meddling with starcraft 2 as an esport and just lets tournament organizers do what they want to do? yes? run the events how they would like the events to run?
that way we don't need blizzard to meddle with the competitive scene
They will probably do that soon. The reason Blizzard wanted to start SC2 as a "e-sport" was because they saw Kespa making a profit on BW in korea. Unfortunately, blizzard didnt do its homework and tried to force SC2 into an "e-sport", and its been working less and less. They are now trying desperate attempts at keeping their grip on the SC2 scene and it is only backfiring so far.
I really agree with this. I'm kinda torn, one would think a game designed for esports would be the best one to become a sport.
I imagine Hearth, Heroes of the storm, and overwatch were all designed with esports in mind, but maybe the just got better at it with practice.
My theory is that the better teams moved on to those games, they don't seem to have the problems starcraft does.
On April 16 2016 01:54 SidianTheBard wrote: Players cheated. Players got caught. Players got punished.
Good riddance.
I Agree
There are too many elitist posting shit , just because a couple of their heroes have been caught cheating in this thread.Anyone who cheats and fucks over a fellow player or players deserves to be permanently banned. They are a disgusting set of people who should never be trusted again,good riddance to bad rubbish !!
You are like the people in a Heroes of the storm match that tell all the other players about how "bad" they are, but it's always the people that talk the most shit that play the worst in the match (they have most deaths, least kills, low damage, low heals).
As if you've never made a mistake in life.
I bet if the people got a small peek into your closet there would be some nice skeletons.
*Also, if I took the time, effort, and skill to win those ladders points that got me into the top 16 shouldn't I be able to hand away 30 points? I earned them.
Just a thought.
That might be a manipulation, might even squeeze some players out, but as others have pointed out, it seems like an extremely flawed system.
This goes hand in hand with creating a CLOSED "GM" clone for the duration of the ladder, where only the invited accounts (basically anyone in GM that is not a barcode) are included, and they can ONLY play against one another (hint for blizzard: you already did that 10 years ago with the closed TFT ladder, I guess the technology "just isn't here yet?").
Great and exciting idea !
What would be the point of an open ladder competition then? Cuz that's what this is supposed to be after all. Like when QXC, despite being long retired, finished top-16 just to see if he could do it.
Edit: Or was the open part of the ladder competition only applied to the start of WCS?
I do not believe the suggested idea necessarily has to go against that. I think any player should be able to enter the separate ladder qualifier, so long as they are eligible (just like every other qualifier ever?). This has the downside of not invigorating the ladder for that period, but it should make for a really exciting qualifier system.
However, it still seems like it would promote playing tons and tons of games, with quantity having more impact over quality (aka, # of games more important than winrate). I really don't know if there's a way to use a ladder-like system without it favoring playing a shit-ton of games.
EPT
