EPTWCS 2016: The Life and Death of the Foreigner Narrative -…
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
I feel terrible for the majority of KR pros, they got shafted pretty hard. | ||
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looken
727 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:24 Ingvar wrote: Why should I care about Starcraft players who 1) Can't compete with the best 2) Don't want to compete with the best 3) Tell me about 1 and 2 with a straight face. I've seen enough "region locking" in Russian football and hockey to know that it doesn't increase player quality or entertainment. And one thing I am certain in is that you can't reach top 10% if you don't try. Why do you think the world is about what you want? Or that you represent the majority opinion? And I think you didn't get the point. I don't think its about making foreigners better, i think more than anything this is about reviving the foreign scene. I mean come on, name ten foreigners that can continuously compete with Koreans. Hell, name even five... You cant increase the skill in something that isn't there in the first place... | ||
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Swisslink
2954 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:17 achan1058 wrote: Pretty much agreed with everything the article says. There's no point watching IEM or Dreamhack now. Perhaps I will watch LoL out of spite. Since none of them will now have a chance at Blizzcon, they won't practice to be good enough for that level. They will only practice enough to beat other non-Koreans. In this way, the skill gap widens. Instead of seeing 1 Lilbow, we will see 8. Pretty much this. I don't know if the expression exists in English, but 'A good horse jumps no higher than it has to.' - and in Europe/NA, the horse won't have to jump very high. The new system rewards and gloryfies mediocrity. | ||
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edwin_b24
2 Posts
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A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3489 Posts
It's not about desperately trying to catch up with the Koreans, it's moreso about giving the foreign scene a chance to grow, because people feel that if they put in their all they CAN win. | ||
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Elentos
55571 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:12 ejozl wrote: It's not about desperately trying to catch up with the Koreans, it's moreso about giving the foreign scene a chance to grow At the same time it inhibits the growth of the Korean scene by offering them less events to play in. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:12 ejozl wrote: I really don't agree. We'll meet Koreans less often and be reminded less about Korean dominance, this could give us the dellusion that we actually have a shot, which is a good thing for the hype. It's not about desperately trying to catch up with the Koreans, it's moreso about giving the foreign scene a chance to grow, because people feel that if they put in their all they CAN win. Until the skill gap is so wide that even NA/EU archons look less impressive than a single Korean player. At that point, I don't think a game needs to be played at all to kill any hype that there could be. | ||
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Topin
Peru10112 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Maybe we can improve the discussion further if the people that don't like this new system can suggest another way? Do you want to go back to the way it was before? The downside of opening up tournaments too much is that very little price money goes to foreigners, so there is little incentive for foreigners to get to the very top and earn big price money as it is close to impossible for them. Instead people earn money through streaming or team contracts and sponsors, none of which requires you to be the very best, just good enough to make an appearance. So all in all, I'd like to find a system that gives good training conditions to the foreigner (and narratives I guess...) through regularly being matched with Koreans, but still have a realistic incentive to be the very best they can be. Koreans welcome, but part of the price pool reserved for players with X games on the local server or something? Otherwise "mixed" team leagues with at most 2 out of 4 Korean players in each team maybe can achieve that? Foreigners would be matched both against other top foreigner and Koreans, and the team/player has a real incentive to get the foreigners to maximise the chance to win against the Koreans, even if it is just a matter of going from 15% to 20%, as every map counts in most team league formats. Maybe even more importantly, the foreigner would get some training time with their Korean team mates. | ||
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MaCRo.gg
Korea (South)860 Posts
This is a great shame and makes this formerly great eSport into a mockery of what it was. However, for those that think that this will bring an era of prosperity for the foreign scene is fooling themselves. Koreans will win in more dominating fashion than ever and foreigners are going to stagnate more than they already have this year. Nothing about the balance of power is going to change, it will become wider if anything. You can call it anything you'd like, the fact is that these policies are specifically targeting a single ethnicity and racist as hell. | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On December 19 2015 20:31 Charoisaur wrote: The players only need to have 100 ladder wins per month in their home regio which isn't much for a progamer so they can still regularly play on KR server Not only that, but the requirement is only for non-citizens of the region. Citizens of the region don't have any ladder requirement. NA players can continue playing 100% of their ladder games on Asia. The rule works oppositely as to how the article argues, as far as I can tell. Non-citizens joining the region are forced to improve the local ladder by playing some games on it. Imported talent is forced to contribute to the local scene while the local scene can continue to do whatever they feel is best for themselves. I would have tried to obtain some more information on what a server qualifier is (see here) because that could be relevant to the topic. The only way servers can currently rank people is with the ladder so I think the assumption is that nearly half the spots at each Circuit Championship will be determined by ladder. We'll see. No one is answering yet about what a server qualifier is. | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:30 looken wrote: Why do you think the world is about what you want? Or that you represent the majority opinion? And I think you didn't get the point. I don't think its about making foreigners better, i think more than anything this is about reviving the foreign scene. I mean come on, name ten foreigners that can continuously compete with Koreans. Hell, name even five... You cant increase the skill in something that isn't there in the first place... SC2 progaming is about what I want because I am a viewer. Blizzard isn't a charity and when viewership goes down too much, foreign scene will die because it is unsustainable without Blizzard's money. I don't care if I represent the majority, I'm stating my opinion. And judging by TL forums, at least I'm not the only one who shares it. Korean players are not inherently better. Their infrastructure is better. If Blizzard cared about long-term development of foreign scene, they could help teams that organize teamhouses and hire coaches. There are multiple ways to do it starting from direct sponsorship to preferential treatment in WCS tournaments to whatever else. Instead they are going all-in on "local support". I've made my choice last year when I decided to skip most of WCS Seasons 1-3. What is your choice? | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:29 DwD wrote: All this new system does is to promote laziness. There is no reason for any foreign player to feel the need to improve their game when they know they will just play vs other foreigners and compete for even bigger money than before. Same thing can be said about Koreans. There is no reason for Koreans to improve, since they will just play against other Koreans. | ||
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Footler
United States560 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
Idra vs Jinro, Idra vs HuK, HuK vs NaNiwa, NaNiwa vs ThorZaIN, Stephano vs Korea, Stephano vs Polt, Scarlett vs Bomber, Snute vs herO, Snute vs SSL/GSL Champions, Nerchio vs MaNa, NaNiwa vs NesTea. The first half of those are foreigner vs foreigner... Another big chunk are pre-kespa moving to sc2. Many have also been over for a long time too. With the increase of foreigner (only) events I expect to be treated to more "top foreigner A vs top foreigner X". The new stories/rivalries that could be created with WCS circuit could trump many of the ones we've experienced before! Now.. I do have a suggestion that would probably appease quite a few people. Split the money in a much more KR heavy fashion. 75/25 maybe? Make it actually appealing for foreigners to fight in Seoul for a *SL ro16 vs a circuit win. Then again, maybe more money to be won will allow foreigners to dedicate more resources to hardcore training (teams, coaches, training houses etc). We'll see... | ||
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TR
2320 Posts
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