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On December 19 2015 14:03 lestye wrote:
I think I'll overall have to disagree with the author. I don't think we were close to those epic stories in the last few years.
Ultimately it will have to depend on how many Global Tournaments there are.
I think the foreign region lock is needed, because it's so incredibly difficult to get exposure to be a pro foreign player. And I think that's been a problem for foreign players for quite some time now. I kinda get sad when I see the big esports orgs pick up players from much less established games, because they get so much value and exposure out of them, something they can't really do with Foreign SC2 players, (and buying up Korean ringers isn't useful either, there seems to be an expiration date on them where they'll inevitably get taken over)
I also disagree with the author that this will be worse for the scene.
I'm sorry, but if you want to watch the best, ther is plenty of opportunity to do so. but there are other players who want to have a bit of the cake too (money).
It is simply not worth it to be a sc2 pro if you can't get out of group stages in big tournaments. Slightly less tournaments in Korea is for the better, gives playerse more tim to prepare. We are actually oversaturated with tournaments.
You also cannot expect everybody to go to korea "if they want a chance to compete". There is always the top 10 percentil which you cannot reach.
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The initial reports were shocking, the official WCS system announcement frustrating and the IEM announcement that they will become WCS Welfare tournament just nailed it.
I understand the happiness of foreign players, they will have more money for much less work. I just hate their celebrations. For us, viewers, it is bad. But we could get used to it. We are angry now, at the end, we might watch WCS Welfare anyway, there are still good players, good guys like Snute and you can't not cheer for them (unless Snute starts celebrating the system as well).
But here is the real CATASTROPHY, DOOM AND GLOOM. This system completely fucked up with the Korean players. Imagine, you are working hard all your life to become one of the best players in the world. You give to it everything, your effort, your skills, all your time, your life. And you are successful and pay it back to all worldwide fans through the enjoyment of your game. That was 2015. As a Korean pro, you have participated in the following events:
On December 19 2015 15:22 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
1. IEM Taipei - herO, HyuN, Polt, Rain, Classic, Life, Soulkey, PartinG, Maru, TRUE, Hydra
2. IEM WC - 16 top Koreans
3. DH Tours - Rain, PartinG, MC, FanTaSy, GuMiho, MMA, TRUE, Hydra, HyuN
4. HSC XI - PartinG, Rain, GuMiho, HyuN
5. DH Valencia - Pigbaby, Terminator, HerO, FanTaSy, GuMiho, TaeJa, TRUE, HyuN, Leenock, Curious, Symbol
6. IEM Shenzhen - Losira, TY, SuperNova, Classic, Rain, YongHwa, herO, PartinG
7. IEM gamescom - soO, MMA, INnoVation, FanTaSy
8. MSI - INnoVation, Hydra, PartinG, HyuN, sOs, Solar, Jaedong, viOLet, Polt
9. DH Stockholm - HerO, Hurricane, sOs, Rain, FanTaSy, TRUE, Jaedong, Curious, Leenock, HyuN, Solar, Dark
10. GSL Season 1
11. SSL Season 1
12. GSL Season 2
13. SSL Season 2
14. GSL Season 3
15. SSL Season 3
16. Hot6ix Cup
17. Kespa Cup
It was a nice year. It was somehow balanced for the number of elite Korean pros. And now the new year, 2016. Where can you compete? The list is shorter:
1. GSL Season 1
2. SSL Season 1
3. GSL Season 2
4. SSL Season 2
5. Kespa Cup
6. HSC
7. One "Invitational" IEM closing the era of good IEMs
+ maybe Hot6ix Cup
+ maybe 1 "WCS Global Tournament"
This is for 12 months. If I were a Korean pro, I would be so pissed off. How the world fucked up with us ... This system wants to bring the foreigners' and Korean levels closer together. Not by improving the foreigners. But by damaging the Koreans. Less competitions. Less opportunities. Less players.
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After reading it all and not liking the changes that much I'm still left wondering wether there will be tournament organizers (for example, BasetradeTV or even bigger names) that will choose to not hold a WCS event. That way they can still invite/qualify the Koreans to compete with foreigners, while not having to fullfill the requirements.
I sincerely hope so.
p.s. in all those Korean tournament lists, don't forget to include proleague. Not only gives it exposure to mid-tier Koreans, but those who're part of a team or organization will at least get a salary.
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The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight
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On December 19 2015 19:45 Nerchio wrote:
The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight
I agree on that point and I m sure there ll be some upsets at blizzcon (possibly by you?)
The main problem I see is in Korea. With less tournaments to participate in, even moreso if you re not playing in Proleague, I think a lot of players will simply retire as there wont be enough room for every one.
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On December 19 2015 19:38 Negius wrote:
After reading it all and not liking the changes that much I'm still left wondering wether there will be tournament organizers (for example, BasetradeTV or even bigger names) that will choose to not hold a WCS event. That way they can still invite/qualify the Koreans to compete with foreigners, while not having to fullfill the requirements.
I sincerely hope so.
p.s. in all those Korean tournament lists, don't forget to include proleague. Not only gives it exposure to mid-tier Koreans, but those who're part of a team or organization will at least get a salary.
I know about Proleague, but the list was meant as the tournaments for individuals. Luckily, Proleague is still there.
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On December 19 2015 19:45 Nerchio wrote:
The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight
You know, what will happen. You will get crushed by Hydra, Polt, MC, eventually a few B-level Koreans, who will manage to get the proper visa and win easy free welfare money.
I think, it would be better for you to have the same form of WCS2015 league, not open to Koreans at all (= no hydra, no polt ...)
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 19 2015 19:54 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 19:38 Negius wrote:
After reading it all and not liking the changes that much I'm still left wondering wether there will be tournament organizers (for example, BasetradeTV or even bigger names) that will choose to not hold a WCS event. That way they can still invite/qualify the Koreans to compete with foreigners, while not having to fullfill the requirements.
I sincerely hope so.
p.s. in all those Korean tournament lists, don't forget to include proleague. Not only gives it exposure to mid-tier Koreans, but those who're part of a team or organization will at least get a salary. Luckily, Proleague is still there.
OR IS IT
just kidding of course there's gonna be proleague
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On December 19 2015 19:45 Nerchio wrote:
The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight
Yes, I'm sure herO vs Petraeus will be so hype and unpredictable.
Besides, why would foreigners be more able to put up a fight than in HotS?
Infrastucture hasn't changed at all (except for the Mill house which will gain a bit in importance I guess), foreign ladders will be devoid of any Koreans besides Polt/Hydra/JD, the game is as demanding, if not more, as HotS, and there are no more Koreans in foreign teams who could occasionnaly help foreign teammates to train.
Do you expect that a few additional dollars and some more articles on TL about a foreign player will somehow increase his skill level to a Korean's, who is training in a perfect environment with the best of the best everyday?
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On December 19 2015 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 19:45 Nerchio wrote:
The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight The main problem I see is in Korea. With less tournaments to participate in, even moreso if you re not playing in Proleague, I think a lot of players will simply retire as there wont be enough room for every one.
This is actually a big deal. Even if Proleague was changed to BO7 for every series, there's going to be players who a) almost never see play, b) aren't allowed to play Proleague as it stands right now, and c) can't qualify for stuff because Korean qualifiers continue to be more stacked than any tournament outside of Korea and the amount of accessible events is reduced.
In the scene with the highest concentration of good players, there's not much incentive to become a pro these days it looks like.
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Nice read, ty! The system stands and falls with the number of global events imo. After the iem announcement, I am not very hopeful.
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On December 19 2015 20:01 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 19:45 Nerchio wrote:
The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight Yes, I'm sure herO vs Petraeus will be so hype and unpredictable. Besides, why would foreigners be more able to put up a fight than in HotS? Infrastucture hasn't changed at all (except for the Mill house which will gain a bit in importance I guess), foreign ladders will be devoid of any Koreans besides Polt/Hydra/JD, the game is as demanding, if not more, as HotS, and there are no more Koreans in foreign teams who could occasionnaly help foreign teammates to train. Do you expect that a few additional dollars and some more articles on TL about a foreign player will somehow increase his skill level to a Korean's, who is training in a perfect environment with the best of the best everyday?
he means a fight for which bo5 will be the quickest. Dethroning lilbow won't be easy but it can happen.
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On December 19 2015 20:07 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote:On December 19 2015 19:45 Nerchio wrote:
The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight The main problem I see is in Korea. With less tournaments to participate in, even moreso if you re not playing in Proleague, I think a lot of players will simply retire as there wont be enough room for every one. This is actually a big deal. Even if Proleague was changed to BO7 for every series, there's going to be players who a) almost never see play, b) aren't allowed to play Proleague as it stands right now, and c) can't qualify for stuff because Korean qualifiers continue to be more stacked than any tournament outside of Korea and the amount of accessible events is reduced. In the scene with the highest concentration of good players, there's not much incentive to become a pro these days it looks like.
These news are new for us, I can imagine, this direction was well known among the Korean teams already a few weeks ago, so it might be related to the wave of retirements and leaving for army in Korea. The number of good players is just too small for the new number of competitions.
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On December 19 2015 13:39 ShambhalaWar wrote:
Great article, and well written.
I think I agree with all your points. IMO something about the new system feels off to me, I couldn't quite put it into words, but I feel as though you said it well.
Lilbow making it into blizzcon by the skin of his teeth, was amazing to watch in 2015. I really admired his spirit and making the seemingly impossible possible.
I don't think story lines like that can happen in the 2016 system, but yes it allows for more foreigners at blizzcon. Foreigners making a career seem much more viable as well.
I think maybe I will disagree in that I think the system of 2015 really did (for the most part) make blizzcon a tournament of the best players in the world. That is my belief.
One thing I am sure of, is that I will not be able to say the same thing for the blizzcon of 2016.
Why? most likely the first round will be played a week before Blizzcon. And since the skill gap will increase (-> I don't think there has ever been an example in the history of sports, where lack of competition resulted in an increase in skill), we'll just have 8 stomps 1 week before Blizzcon and Blizzcon is still going to be Korean only.
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So we need to know how many Global event 's there will be ASAP to rate this new system.
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This affects NA/CN/SEA the most. NA server is bad, mostly because NA players on the West Coast can play a decent amount on the KR server to raise their skill and then play on the NA server to get some practice at ladder conditions. Players on the East Coast can do the same thing, but play on EU instead of KR. At the same time CN/SEA players can play on KR to help their practice. That clause directly forces those players to play on their own ladder, which is worse than Korea. The fastest way to improve as a player is to constantly play against better players over and over and Korea has by far the most depth of any server—that’s inarguable. It’s a great tool for anyone to practice on and one of the reasons as to why Koreans are always so sharp. With the lock down, players that had access to such a tool will naturally devolve.
The players only need to have 100 ladder wins per month in their home regio which isn't much for a progamer so they can still regularly play on KR server
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On December 19 2015 20:26 Penev wrote:
So we need to know how many Global event 's there will be ASAP to rate this new system.
You know it. There was only one tournament big enough to be able to host something like this. IEM. At least, IEM World Championship in Katowice. And they are celebrating, that it has become the WCS Circuit Winter thing ...
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On December 19 2015 20:38 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 20:26 Penev wrote:
So we need to know how many Global event 's there will be ASAP to rate this new system. You know it. There was only one tournament big enough to be able to host something like this. IEM. At least, IEM World Championship in Katowice. And they are celebrating, that it has become the WCS Circuit Winter thing ...
Well, we can still hope that DreamHack isn't part of this. And considering the fact that DH:Winter can't possibly be a WCS Circuit Event (-> It normally takes place after Blizzcon), we might still see good DreamHack events after IEM is gone for good. I mean, I don't need WCS Global Events, they are useless as they are. I just need 'non-WCS Circuit'-events. I don't care if they are WCS Global or non-WCS.
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On December 19 2015 20:41 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 20:38 Diabolique wrote:On December 19 2015 20:26 Penev wrote:
So we need to know how many Global event 's there will be ASAP to rate this new system. You know it. There was only one tournament big enough to be able to host something like this. IEM. At least, IEM World Championship in Katowice. And they are celebrating, that it has become the WCS Circuit Winter thing ... Well, we can still hope that DreamHack isn't part of this. And considering the fact that DH:Winter can't possibly be a WCS Circuit Event (-> It normally takes place after Blizzcon), we might still see good DreamHack events after IEM is gone for good. I mean, I don't need WCS Global Events, they are useless as they are. I just need 'non-WCS Circuit'-events. I don't care if they are WCS Global or non-WCS.
They explicitly mentioned DreamHack as one of their most important WCS partners in the announcement.
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On December 19 2015 20:41 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 20:38 Diabolique wrote:On December 19 2015 20:26 Penev wrote:
So we need to know how many Global event 's there will be ASAP to rate this new system. You know it. There was only one tournament big enough to be able to host something like this. IEM. At least, IEM World Championship in Katowice. And they are celebrating, that it has become the WCS Circuit Winter thing ... Well, we can still hope that DreamHack isn't part of this. And considering the fact that DH:Winter can't possibly be a WCS Circuit Event (-> It normally takes place after Blizzcon), we might still see good DreamHack events after IEM is gone for good. I mean, I don't need WCS Global Events, they are useless as they are. I just need 'non-WCS Circuit'-events. I don't care if they are WCS Global or non-WCS.
DreamHack is part of that as well. That was clear from some posts already before IEM. DreamHack is WCS Circuit.
The only chance is to have some kind of Gfinity invitational (but let us be honest, the production was not comparable with the profesionality of IEM) or MSI ... But even MSI did not care that much for SC2, so if they can get support from Blizzard, I am sure, they will also sell their sole.
The only thing is Homestory cup, but also that is not the real big Korean-foreigner tournament. That is just pure fun and it should stay so.
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EPT
