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On December 23 2015 20:20 Ein0r wrote:
But can those changes attract more viewers? Especially foreigners that watch foreign tournaments? Most people already have they point of view that they prefer watching Koreans because the average skill level is higher. I just hope for more ads or news article on gaming related sites about SC2 tournaments.. That might help making people like me interested in watching a tournament. People that played/play Starcraft (maybe even new ones), that watch a variety of esports tournaments but are too lazy to go search for schedules by themselves. And with viewers comes the money.
Only time will tell. Ads are important as well as you say. sc2 has been in decline for some time, so we probably shouldn't expect a huge sudden increase even if it works well. Maybe it can break the decline to flatten it out a bit. We should also take into account that the TL community is much more Korea focused than the target group blizzzard aims at, so people here (including me) will be a unrepresentatively annoyed at this change.
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Hello, after my read of the article I was left with the impression that players who used to ladder on Korea (but weren't actually living in Korea) now have to play on their own server ...
But on the Blizzard's annoucement, I read they had to win 100 games per month on their server.
Hell, 100 games, seriously? I mean pro gamers play an average of what ... 30-40 games a day? That means with a 50% win rate (and of course it should be a higher percentage for obious reasons), they only have to play around 5-6 days on their server, and they have 25 days left to train on whichever server they want, no? So how much of a constraint is that really?
Or did I miss the point?
Thank you
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On December 24 2015 01:06 Trizztein1 wrote:
Hello, after my read of the article I was left with the impression that players who used to ladder on Korea (but weren't actually living in Korea) now have to play on their own server ...
But on the Blizzard's annoucement, I read they had to win 100 games per month on their server.
Hell, 100 games, seriously? I mean pro gamers play an average of what ... 30-40 games a day? That means with a 50% win rate (and of course it should be a higher percentage for obious reasons), they only have to play around 5-6 days on their server, and they have 25 days left to train on whichever server they want, no? So how much of a constraint is that really?
Or did I miss the point?
Thank you
Well not everyone is fulltime progamer. Some people are genuinely smart and are capable being top32/16 with only ~150 ladder victories.
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You'd be surprised how few games some foreign players play
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I really dont see why anyone thinks that watching lower calibre players in any competition is somehow better than watching the best of the best go at it. I understand the need for change but I feel this is perhaps too much.
If Koreans really are that good at smashing foreigners then foreigners need to step it up! (We know that top previous foreigners like Snute, Bunny, Stephano, Lilbow etc.. have at times been very close in skill level to koreans so its TOTALLY POSSIBLE!) Koreans don't have some magical gift from the heavens, they have dedication and real practice and training environments. The US and EU scenes need to merge and make one super team to try to combat koreans.
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On December 24 2015 21:28 CommanderBolt wrote:
I really dont see why anyone thinks that watching lower calibre players in any competition is somehow better than watching the best of the best go at it. I understand the need for change but I feel this is perhaps too much.
If Koreans really are that good at smashing foreigners then foreigners need to step it up! (We know that top previous foreigners like Snute, Bunny, Stephano, Lilbow etc.. have at times been very close in skill level to koreans so its TOTALLY POSSIBLE!) Koreans don't have some magical gift from the heavens, they have dedication and real practice and training environments. The US and EU scenes need to merge and make one super team to try to combat koreans.
There has to be realistic incentive for players for a true infrastructure to grow. Koreans don't have some magical gift, but almost all of the Koreans that are good at smashing foreigners benefited from professional environment one way or another. Something that foreign scene arguably never had. It was all about making a dream come true, to make money out of games and some enjoyed just that. Most of the foreigners that you mentioned were practicing in Korea for some amount of time, not sure about Lilbow and Bunny.
Both sides of the fence look like professional and amateur, one has a true environment and the second was scrambling in their own homes being overwhelmed of what Korea had to offer to their players. Exactly as you said, dedication, practice and training environments. You can't have a dedication from a community, that has no incentive, no hope of being up top and gaining money to sustain themselves. There is no chance of "magical gift from the heavens" for foreign scene making it professional all of a sudden and let it step it up like you suggest. This new system for me brings hope for the future of both scenes. Korean top players sweeping foreign tournaments were never good in my opinion. Maybe for viewers, wanting to see how government-backed Korean playerbase operates, while silently smashing hopes of any foreigner.
It feels unfair, but it feels less unfair than previous, "non-racist" systems taking away any incentive but for those who were very good very early.
And about Stephano, you forgot that he had his peak when KeSPA wasn't transitioned to SC2.
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good writeup. also TotalBiscuit's thoughts on soundcloud were excellent
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For the same reason people watch MLS, or American College Football. They could easily watch Bundesliga, Premier League, Primera Division or the NFL, so why bother with those below average players? Because for some reason they enjoy it.
I am not sure if this was posted already, but there was a Soundcloud comment from TotalBiscuit, which sums it up pretty good in my opinion.
The link:
soundcloud.com
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On December 24 2015 21:53 Ein0r wrote:For the same reason people watch MLS, or American College Football. They could easily watch Bundesliga, Premier League, Primera Division or the NFL, so why bother with those below average players? Because for some reason they enjoy it. I am not sure if this was posted already, but there was a Soundcloud comment from TotalBiscuit, which sums it up pretty good in my opinion. The link: soundcloud.com
People watch MLS or American college football because those teams and players come from the same country they are from so they are more interested.
This is not the case in tournaments where EVERYONE BUT KOREANS are allowed.
That are simply international tournaments where the best players are locked out from.
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That's what the WCS Global Events are for. The format is fine, the only thing i am a bit more concerned is the 50/50 split on the Global Finals since this is not fair at the moment for Koreans. But if you would take Final slots away from them at a later date because the foreigners get stronger, they would be even more pissed. I am thinking of a point system as they have it for the Football Champions League. But no clue how to make it fair. Especially since there are only two parties involved: Koreans and "The other guys somehwere else, maybe".
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No matter a change, by definition it will always have its pros and cons.
My opinion is that SC2 needed a change, something fresh. And if SC2 was "dying" with the past format, I don't mind trying something different and hope for the best.
I like been part of SC2 because it feels like a "private" family, not for the casuals. But I wouldn't mind SC2 being as popular as LoL or CS. But lets see what happens.
Lets just all be supportive  that the least we can do.
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Now "The best foreigners" will be like you when are a geographically limited kid and claim to be "the best of your neighborhood", then getting one or maybe few more chances to test your level against the really best players in the world (vs Koreans at BlizzCon)
The only way I would like to see tournaments like those regional things is if the games show new things, or unorthodox gameplay, if the reduced skill is compensed with at least a variety of builds or situations making worth those games to watch and enjoy, because watching a mimic of a perfect thing but lower in level is not fun for me at least.
I hope this thing works for everyone, and not only for few players trying to make a career with the game.
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Now "The best foreigners" will be like you when are a geographically limited kid and claim to be "the best of your neighborhood", then getting one or maybe few more chances to test your level against the really best players in the world (vs Koreans at BlizzCon)
There you go, your very solid plot for a SC themed anime!
The only way I would like to see tournaments like those regional things is if the games show new things, or unorthodox gameplay, if the reduced skill is compensed with at least a variety of builds or situations making worth those games to watch and enjoy, because watching a mimic of a perfect thing but lower in level is not fun for me at least.
The same goes for League of Legends. As long as you have a good narration and it is entertaining to watch people will do so. In the end EU/NA doesnt stand a chance against Korean teams, but they are quite fun to watch because of their personalitys, good marketing and/or entertaining presentation. If they can improve this, the foreign narrative scene has at least a chance to attract sponsors, even if they wont be compete for WCS Global Finals' half final or final matches.
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On December 26 2015 08:56 alukarD wrote:No matter a change, by definition it will always have its pros and cons. My opinion is that SC2 needed a change, something fresh. And if SC2 was "dying" with the past format, I don't mind trying something different and hope for the best. I like been part of SC2 because it feels like a "private" family, not for the casuals. But I wouldn't mind SC2 being as popular as LoL or CS. But lets see what happens. Lets just all be supportive that the least we can do.
Why? I won't support any foreigner in this system. Nor their teams.
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Koreans are not genetically better at RTS games or archery. They are the best because they devote unimaginable amount of time at practice everyday sacrificing their leisure, and it applies to every single good Korean progamers. Hell, I think even MC who retired practices more than some foreign progamers. Just ask Lilbow how much his half a year of practice amounted to as opposed to Koreans who played LOTV for a month and half by now.
Blizzard has made a decision to give more competing chances to progamers who practiced less in general. What's the merit of this new system? That foreigners have more personality? Because personality makes SC2 great to watch, duh.
Why don't they just go all the way and give quota for gold or platinum league female 'progamers' already in several Korean teams as cheerleaders? It would be nice to have 8 female gamers in WCS 2016 in the round of 16, you know, for the sake of interesting drama. They should make matches scripted too if they want more personality in the scene. I can definitely enjoy Naniwa smacking MMA's head with keyboard after losing a series and stealing the tournament trophy.
Sigh. I guess I will only watch Korean tournaments and WCS global finals next year. That's only 1/4 of what I've watched in 2015.
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On December 24 2015 21:44 aQuaSC wrote:
Both sides of the fence look like professional and amateur, one has a true environment and the second was scrambling in their own homes being overwhelmed of what Korea had to offer to their players. Exactly as you said, dedication, practice and training environments. You can't have a dedication from a community, that has no incentive, no hope of being up top and gaining money to sustain themselves. There is no chance of "magical gift from the heavens" for foreign scene making it professional all of a sudden and let it step it up like you suggest. This new system for me brings hope for the future of both scenes. Korean top players sweeping foreign tournaments were never good in my opinion. Maybe for viewers, wanting to see how government-backed Korean playerbase operates, while silently smashing hopes of any foreigner.
It feels unfair, but it feels less unfair than previous, "non-racist" systems taking away any incentive but for those who were very good very early.
And about Stephano, you forgot that he had his peak when KeSPA wasn't transitioned to SC2.
Wait. I thought Korean government was against spending too much time on a computer (haven't they gotten a law prohibiting playing online gaming between 12 and 6 in the morning or something?). But on the other hand they directly support professionnal teams? Or am I getting something wrong? I thought the strenght of the Kespa teams relied on the money that the organisation itself solely made from sponsors/viewers etc. Thank you.
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On December 24 2015 02:36 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2015 01:06 Trizztein1 wrote:
Hello, after my read of the article I was left with the impression that players who used to ladder on Korea (but weren't actually living in Korea) now have to play on their own server ...
But on the Blizzard's annoucement, I read they had to win 100 games per month on their server.
Hell, 100 games, seriously? I mean pro gamers play an average of what ... 30-40 games a day? That means with a 50% win rate (and of course it should be a higher percentage for obious reasons), they only have to play around 5-6 days on their server, and they have 25 days left to train on whichever server they want, no? So how much of a constraint is that really?
Or did I miss the point?
Thank you Well not everyone is fulltime progamer. Some people are genuinely smart and are capable being top32/16 with only ~150 ladder victories.
You talk about top 32/16, you mean on NA ladder, right? If you're talking about a global top 32/16 position in terms of WCS points any given year, I'd really be curious to know who it is you're talking about. Not that I'm not ready to believe you, though.
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On December 27 2015 22:39 Trizztein1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2015 02:36 Dingodile wrote:On December 24 2015 01:06 Trizztein1 wrote:
Hello, after my read of the article I was left with the impression that players who used to ladder on Korea (but weren't actually living in Korea) now have to play on their own server ...
But on the Blizzard's annoucement, I read they had to win 100 games per month on their server.
Hell, 100 games, seriously? I mean pro gamers play an average of what ... 30-40 games a day? That means with a 50% win rate (and of course it should be a higher percentage for obious reasons), they only have to play around 5-6 days on their server, and they have 25 days left to train on whichever server they want, no? So how much of a constraint is that really?
Or did I miss the point?
Thank you Well not everyone is fulltime progamer. Some people are genuinely smart and are capable being top32/16 with only ~150 ladder victories. You talk about top 32/16, you mean on NA ladder, right? If you're talking about a global top 32/16 position in terms of WCS points any given year, I'd really be curious to know who it is you're talking about. Not that I'm not ready to believe you, though.
top32/16 places at WCS. I think Heromarine and Gungfubanda just play this game without any international aim. They are just "good" so that they can attend such tournaments and get top32/16 WCS results. Maybe Showtime too. They all are focusing to high school/university.
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I wonder if the prize money this year will be overall larger than last year. While they are paying out more per tournament, there will be fewer GSL/SSL tournaments as a whole. Has anyone done the math on this? I am sure it is some what speculative as we do not know all the tournaments planned for 2016 yet.
But it would be safe to assume less earnings for a Korean player losing access to several tournaments due to new rules?
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On December 29 2015 01:08 Prolet wrote:
I wonder if the prize money this year will be overall larger than last year. While they are paying out more per tournament, there will be fewer GSL/SSL tournaments as a whole. Has anyone done the math on this? I am sure it is some what speculative as we do not know all the tournaments planned for 2016 yet.
But it would be safe to assume less earnings for a Korean player losing access to several tournaments due to new rules?
The previous GSL prize pool was $93,135/season, the new one is ~$200,000/season. The StarLeague prizepool roughly doubled too.
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EPT
