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IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
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On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Nobody is complaining about any inability to watch top Korean players in the GSL, SSL, and Proleague. Some people are, however, complaining about the reduced quantity, not complete dearth, of GSL and SSL, with 2 seasons of each compared to last year's 3, a considerably inferior format for the SSL, and the effective barring of Korean players from participating in many international events such as the IEM and DH tournaments.
I must personally say that while I agree with the need for foreigners to have their own tournament ecosystem, I believe that it is best to focus most effort on promoting SC2 in Korea, because only a revitalised, healthy, stable, and popular SC scene there will ensure SC2 remains 'aliev gaem' in the long term
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On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Some people believe that tournament appearances of Koreans in international tournaments are an opportunity to practice for foreigners. Personally I find this logic strange. Do you really think that a Korean - practicing exclusively on Korea - coming to a tournament to play against non-Koreans - often not having an opportunity to play there - are good practice? I thought that "practice" is tons of time spent on playing, not few bo3 or bo5 matches.
There are also lots of twisted arguments against that new system, as less opportunities to meet Koreans in person. I think that if "high-quality purists" wanted to see more of high-level Korean play, they should boycott GSL/SSL whatsoever as it wastes time that could be potentially used for 2 or 3 times more online events.
Or people should rethink what they want to watch, the game or Korean environment which will probably never exist outside of this country.
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On December 20 2015 03:20 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Some people believe that tournament appearances of Koreans in international tournaments are an opportunity to practice for foreigners. Personally I find this logic strange. Do you really think that a Korean - practicing exclusively on Korea - coming to a tournament to play against non-Koreans - often not having an opportunity to play there - are good practice? I thought that "practice" is tons of time spent on playing, not few bo3 or bo5 matches. There are also lots of twisted arguments against that new system, as less opportunities to meet Koreans in person. I think that if "high-quality purists" wanted to see more of high-level Korean play, they should boycott GSL/SSL whatsoever as it wastes time that could be potentially used for 2 or 3 times more online events. Or people should rethink what they want to watch, the game or Korean environment which will probably never exist outside of this country.
They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean.
And with regards to your 2nd point... What? 'High-level purists' should boycott the tournaments containing the best players... because these tournaments occupy time better used for... online events? Such as the vaunted OlimoLeague and the Leifeng Cup?
Your last paragraph is simply laughable. It is precisely because these 'high-level purists' want to see the greatest depths and the highest expression of skill in the game itself that they want more Korean tournaments, and more Koreans playing, in general. I think it is you who should rethink what you want to watch. The dichotomy, for us 'purists', as SC2 players and spectators, is to simply choose between objectively higher levels of play, compared to significantly lower quality play. Not because we simply want to watch the 'Korean environment'.
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On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 03:20 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Some people believe that tournament appearances of Koreans in international tournaments are an opportunity to practice for foreigners. Personally I find this logic strange. Do you really think that a Korean - practicing exclusively on Korea - coming to a tournament to play against non-Koreans - often not having an opportunity to play there - are good practice? I thought that "practice" is tons of time spent on playing, not few bo3 or bo5 matches. There are also lots of twisted arguments against that new system, as less opportunities to meet Koreans in person. I think that if "high-quality purists" wanted to see more of high-level Korean play, they should boycott GSL/SSL whatsoever as it wastes time that could be potentially used for 2 or 3 times more online events. Or people should rethink what they want to watch, the game or Korean environment which will probably never exist outside of this country. They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean.
Are you referring to the motivation of a foreigner to practice for blizzcon?
Maybe with 8 of them next year one will prepare for it.
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On December 20 2015 03:30 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:On December 20 2015 03:20 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Some people believe that tournament appearances of Koreans in international tournaments are an opportunity to practice for foreigners. Personally I find this logic strange. Do you really think that a Korean - practicing exclusively on Korea - coming to a tournament to play against non-Koreans - often not having an opportunity to play there - are good practice? I thought that "practice" is tons of time spent on playing, not few bo3 or bo5 matches. There are also lots of twisted arguments against that new system, as less opportunities to meet Koreans in person. I think that if "high-quality purists" wanted to see more of high-level Korean play, they should boycott GSL/SSL whatsoever as it wastes time that could be potentially used for 2 or 3 times more online events. Or people should rethink what they want to watch, the game or Korean environment which will probably never exist outside of this country. They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean. Are you referring to the motivation of a foreigner to practice for blizzcon? Maybe with 8 of them next year one will prepare for it. Or we will have them go full Lilbow. Unless Blizzcon offers a disproportionate amount of money to ensure that they practice.
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On December 20 2015 02:06 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 22:29 DwD wrote:
All this new system does is to promote laziness. There is no reason for any foreign player to feel the need to improve their game when they know they will just play vs other foreigners and compete for even bigger money than before. Same thing can be said about Koreans. There is no reason for Koreans to improve, since they will just play against other Koreans.
How does this even make sense? The Koreans are highest level there atm. Mid to high tier Koreans WILL HAVE to get better so they can compete with the very best Koreans which are the best players in the world. The top Koreans will at least maintain their level so the others do not overtake their place
Hope this makes sense. I am kinda tired atm
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I only watch Koreans play anyway, I am pretty happy there are less tournaments overall as it means the GSL champion gets to be the champion for a longer time and it helps build that prestige.
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On December 19 2015 20:14 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 20:01 OtherWorld wrote:On December 19 2015 19:45 Nerchio wrote:
The story of Korean vs Best foreigner will be hyped up more than before because it's not going to happen so often and that's only a good thing. We will have to see what happens at first Blizzcon but I have a feeling some foreigners will be able to put up a fight Yes, I'm sure herO vs Petraeus will be so hype and unpredictable. Besides, why would foreigners be more able to put up a fight than in HotS? Infrastucture hasn't changed at all (except for the Mill house which will gain a bit in importance I guess), foreign ladders will be devoid of any Koreans besides Polt/Hydra/JD, the game is as demanding, if not more, as HotS, and there are no more Koreans in foreign teams who could occasionnaly help foreign teammates to train. Do you expect that a few additional dollars and some more articles on TL about a foreign player will somehow increase his skill level to a Korean's, who is training in a perfect environment with the best of the best everyday? he means a fight for which bo5 will be the quickest. Dethroning lilbow won't be easy but it can happen.
Naniwa is still n°1 :p
And something that helps to understand what's going on: DH/ESL are owned by the same company. Don't expect a lot of them, they're clearly backing out and it's demonstrated by ESL employees on twitter mocking everyone sad about the 1/3 less korean content.
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On December 19 2015 22:12 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 20:59 looken wrote:
I don't really agree with your statement "foreigners don't get the chance to compete with the best anymore". Maybe I misunderstood, but doesn't it say foreigners CAN compete in the GSL if they want to? So if you actually WANT to be the best its is pretty easy to prove it. Just play in GSL. I doubt any foreigner will do so, but the chance is still there. Of course they are allowed to participate in GSL, but let's be honest here, most of them wouldn't even be able to get out of Code B, let alone move from Code A to Code S.
If anything they should bring back the code s/a/b system for korea. Each one getting a champion per season like back in the day. Code b open to all and played online only. Stream and cast all leagues. We need to see more of the less exposed players in korea again. Especially if you're gonna keep everyone separated.
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On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:
They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean.
Can you prove, that a majority of up and coming players' motivation is to beat a Korean? I believe that lesser skilled regions need to grow within themselves first, then be put in one place letting them compete on equal terms with people from a talent-breeding environment that exists for over 10 years. And it did not appear ever outside of Korea, even with the western excitement about the idea of progaming. Only short-term sponsor-driven money-making emulations of it appeared and went away quickly.
And with regards to your 2nd point... What? 'High-level purists' should boycott the tournaments containing the best players... because these tournaments occupy time better used for... online events? Such as the vaunted OlimoLeague and the Leifeng Cup?
I wanted to ridicule the argument of not being able to see more Korean matches within WCS system. It's not a proposition. I followed simple, non-realistic logic - if you could scrap all that travel to studios and venue organization, you could have much more money and time to produce more online tournaments with bigger prize pool. More time = more matches = more Korean play. Similar type of unreasonable logic as some arguments I keep reading over and over.
Your last paragraph is simply laughable. It is precisely because these 'high-level purists' want to see the greatest depths and the highest expression of skill in the game itself that they want more Korean tournaments, and more Koreans playing, in general. I think it is you who should rethink what you want to watch. The dichotomy, for us 'purists', as SC2 players and spectators, is to simply choose between objectively higher levels of play, compared to significantly lower quality play. Not because we simply want to watch the 'Korean environment'.
I'm able to see over what is now and what will come after most of current players retire. I still believe that foreigners will never be able to beat Koreans, if they won't have local support instead of Koreans coming over who train in their own environment. And sorry for possibly insulting you with this "purist" thing, I didn't mean that.
I love "Korean" StarCraft. I also want non-Koreans to be successful, to possibly have the infrastructure they need. And this system is a chance. After all, the infrastructure, teams and all were a dream everyone had since they've seen what Korea has. And a lot more region-limited tournaments, which are for players not to practice, but to practice for can be only a good thing long-term. Did you spit with disgust on long-gone regional WCG qualifiers in Brood War? Were they a disgrace? A "WCG Welfare"? It was a bad move by Blizzard and organizers to let Korean dominate everything right away, now people are sad because of them getting less opportunity. I understand that. But guess what, most of SC2 players are not Korean.
I'm sad about seeing so much negativity towards non-Koreans. You cannot cater for everyone though.
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On December 20 2015 04:39 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:
They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean. Can you prove, that a majority of up and coming players' motivation is to beat a Korean?
It's obviously hard to prove anyone's motivations, but it should be their motivation to become the best. And even being the best foreigner implies being able to tango with skilled Koreans.
Obviously there's merit to building up a foreign scene but they could have maybe tried doing it without actively hurting the Korean scene by not only barring them from most non-Korean events but also reducing the amount of Korean events. With this system, if you're an amateur in Korea who has the dream of becoming a progamer, what is your perspective? Only if you're really, really good can you actually pursue this dream. Unless you're offered to join one of the 7 KeSPA teams you'll never become anyone anymore. The perspective for up and coming foreigners is much better.
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On December 20 2015 04:46 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 04:39 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:
They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean. Can you prove, that a majority of up and coming players' motivation is to beat a Korean? It's obviously hard to prove anyone's motivations, but it should be their motivation to become the best. And even being the best foreigner implies being able to tango with skilled Koreans. Obviously there's merit to building up a foreign scene but they could have maybe tried doing it without actively hurting the Korean scene by not only barring them from most non-Korean events but also reducing the amount of Korean events. With this system, if you're an amateur in Korea who has the dream of becoming a progamer, what is your perspective? Only if you're really, really good can you actually pursue this dream. Unless you're offered to join one of the 7 KeSPA teams you'll never become anyone anymore. The perspective for up and coming foreigners is much better.
I'm quite sad myself because of simplified SSL and one less season of GSL and SSL. I have hopes for the future though, we haven't heard all the details of what Korean tournament structure (their cups and other local events) will look like.
I disagree with opinion that Korean situation should block most of non-Koreans' chances to compete on professional level.
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This was a good, fair article, but I disagree:
0. I love seeing foreigners play. I also think that Blizzard is making a huge bet with LoTV and this announcement: they've done a huge amount to make LoTV more micro-oriented, and I think they believe this will favor foreigners and shift the balance towards parity. Evidence: I just watched Serral in NW3 take down 3 Koreans in a row, and he almost beat Inno twice. I know this opinion is controversial, just a thought.
1. It was always weird to me that there wasn't a longer off-season for starcraft. No other sport is like this.
2. If this means a 1-2 month break in between SSL/GSLs, that will make me happy. I get serious starcraft fatigue by May/June.
3. Yes, we don't know all the details yet, but I still think these changes will mean stronger Korean presence in the Global Events. (Why do people keep saying there won't be any? Just because of the IEM announcements? Seriously, these changes have been out 2 days, give the organizers time to at least enjoy the holidays before they get around to laying out for us the entire next year's plans on a silver platter).
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On December 20 2015 04:52 happyGo wrote:
This was a good, fair article, but I disagree:
0. I love seeing foreigners play. I also think that Blizzard is making a huge bet with LoTV and this announcement: they've done a huge amount to make LoTV more micro-oriented, and I think they believe this will favor foreigners and shift the balance towards parity. Evidence: I just watched Serral in NW3 take down 3 Koreans in a row, and he almost beat Inno twice. I know this opinion is controversial, just a thought.
1. It was always weird to me that there wasn't a longer off-season for starcraft. No other sport is like this.
2. If this means a 1-2 month break in between SSL/GSLs, that will make me happy. I get serious starcraft fatigue by May/June.
3. Yes, we don't know all the details yet, but I still think these changes will mean stronger Korean presence in the Global Events. (Why do people keep saying there won't be any? Just because of the IEM announcements? Seriously, these changes have been out 2 days, give the organizers time to at least enjoy the holidays before they get around to laying out for us the entire next year's plans on a silver platter).
People are saying there won't be Global Events because organisers have to create a 50,000$+ prize pool on their own. Events with prize pools like that didn't happen very often in the past (beyond the ones organised by Blizzard), why would they now (some sponsors who did events that big in the past are gone from the scene entirely)? Especially since you can just make a Circuit event (aka foreigners + Koreans with visa only) and ask Blizzard to support it financially. Way easier than getting money for a Global Event. Especially since the interest wasn't that high and the prize pools were already declining. DH Winter this year, new game and foreigners and all, had a way smaller prize pool than last year.
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On December 20 2015 04:52 happyGo wrote:
This was a good, fair article, but I disagree:
0. I love seeing foreigners play. I also think that Blizzard is making a huge bet with LoTV and this announcement: they've done a huge amount to make LoTV more micro-oriented, and I think they believe this will favor foreigners and shift the balance towards parity. Evidence: I just watched Serral in NW3 take down 3 Koreans in a row, and he almost beat Inno twice. I know this opinion is controversial, just a thought.
There's no motivation for a Foreign player to improve if he doesn't have to face Inno more than 3-4 times a year (IF we're lucky, I'll address that later). I'm all for creating a foreign scene, but you don't strengthen the scene as a whole by killing off the one strong scene you have, which is what will happen with these changes, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but before the year is out it will happen
2. If this means a 1-2 month break in between SSL/GSLs, that will make me happy. I get serious starcraft fatigue by May/June.
That's your opinion, but with that 1-2 month gap there has to be something for Koreans to do otherwise they lose any way of support themselves, if you're a regular in Proleague, great but the B teamers and those not on KeSPA teams are fucked.
3. Yes, we don't know all the details yet, but I still think these changes will mean stronger Korean presence in the Global Events. (Why do people keep saying there won't be any? Just because of the IEM announcements? Seriously, these changes have been out 2 days, give the organizers time to at least enjoy the holidays before they get around to laying out for us the entire next year's plans on a silver platter).
ESL/IEM and all the other organizers had a huge say in what was created this year, why would they go to all the trouble of creating a WCS Global Event with their own money and the stringent requirements when they can create a Circuit event and get topped up by Blizzard? Stuchiu said we'd see 1-3 Global events. I think he's close but even that is too optimistic, if I see 2 WCS Global Events next year I'll be shocked
As for the announcement, if it were another IEM maybe we'd give them the benefit. IEM Katowice is different, it's supposed to be the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, the showcase of the IEM season. The fact that's the FIRST event to get gutted to WCS Circuit level, doesn't leave me with much hope for the future, more like you'll see a lot of what you're seeing with this. Every "Premier" event will be a WCS Circuit event and we'll have a token "Invitational" somewhere for the Koreans
I'd have a lot more respect for people who support this system if they'd call it what they're thinking "WCS Fuck Korea"
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On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 03:20 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Some people believe that tournament appearances of Koreans in international tournaments are an opportunity to practice for foreigners. Personally I find this logic strange. Do you really think that a Korean - practicing exclusively on Korea - coming to a tournament to play against non-Koreans - often not having an opportunity to play there - are good practice? I thought that "practice" is tons of time spent on playing, not few bo3 or bo5 matches. There are also lots of twisted arguments against that new system, as less opportunities to meet Koreans in person. I think that if "high-quality purists" wanted to see more of high-level Korean play, they should boycott GSL/SSL whatsoever as it wastes time that could be potentially used for 2 or 3 times more online events. Or people should rethink what they want to watch, the game or Korean environment which will probably never exist outside of this country. They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean. And with regards to your 2nd point... What? 'High-level purists' should boycott the tournaments containing the best players... because these tournaments occupy time better used for... online events? Such as the vaunted OlimoLeague and the Leifeng Cup? Your last paragraph is simply laughable. It is precisely because these 'high-level purists' want to see the greatest depths and the highest expression of skill in the game itself that they want more Korean tournaments, and more Koreans playing, in general. I think it is you who should rethink what you want to watch. The dichotomy, for us 'purists', as SC2 players and spectators, is to simply choose between objectively higher levels of play, compared to significantly lower quality play. Not because we simply want to watch the 'Korean environment'.
So you think a high level Korean stomping a foreigner is higher level of play? I see your point and I can agree that it is much more fun to see two high level players fight it out, but thats what GSL is for. One less GSL tournament sucks, I give you that, but come on, seeing Koreans play vs foreigners at IEMs and DHs was a long way from "higher level play".
On December 20 2015 05:07 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 04:52 happyGo wrote:
This was a good, fair article, but I disagree:
0. I love seeing foreigners play. I also think that Blizzard is making a huge bet with LoTV and this announcement: they've done a huge amount to make LoTV more micro-oriented, and I think they believe this will favor foreigners and shift the balance towards parity. Evidence: I just watched Serral in NW3 take down 3 Koreans in a row, and he almost beat Inno twice. I know this opinion is controversial, just a thought. There's no motivation for a Foreign player to improve if he doesn't have to face Inno more than 3-4 times a year (IF we're lucky, I'll address that later). I'm all for creating a foreign scene, but you don't strengthen the scene as a whole by killing off the one strong scene you have, which is what will happen with these changes, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but before the year is out it will happen
like i said before, we had that system for the majority of SCII. So where are all these high level foreigners everyone thinks wont come again if we change the system? I cant name five foreigners competing on par with Koreans right now. Why keep ppl arguing that this new system will kill something that hasn't happened in all the years past?
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On December 20 2015 05:27 looken wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:On December 20 2015 03:20 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Some people believe that tournament appearances of Koreans in international tournaments are an opportunity to practice for foreigners. Personally I find this logic strange. Do you really think that a Korean - practicing exclusively on Korea - coming to a tournament to play against non-Koreans - often not having an opportunity to play there - are good practice? I thought that "practice" is tons of time spent on playing, not few bo3 or bo5 matches. There are also lots of twisted arguments against that new system, as less opportunities to meet Koreans in person. I think that if "high-quality purists" wanted to see more of high-level Korean play, they should boycott GSL/SSL whatsoever as it wastes time that could be potentially used for 2 or 3 times more online events. Or people should rethink what they want to watch, the game or Korean environment which will probably never exist outside of this country. They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean. And with regards to your 2nd point... What? 'High-level purists' should boycott the tournaments containing the best players... because these tournaments occupy time better used for... online events? Such as the vaunted OlimoLeague and the Leifeng Cup? Your last paragraph is simply laughable. It is precisely because these 'high-level purists' want to see the greatest depths and the highest expression of skill in the game itself that they want more Korean tournaments, and more Koreans playing, in general. I think it is you who should rethink what you want to watch. The dichotomy, for us 'purists', as SC2 players and spectators, is to simply choose between objectively higher levels of play, compared to significantly lower quality play. Not because we simply want to watch the 'Korean environment'. So you think a high level Korean stomping a foreigner is higher level of play? I see your point and I can agree that it is much more fun to see two high level players fight it out, but thats what GSL is for. One less GSL tournament sucks, I give you that, but come on, seeing Koreans play vs foreigners at IEMs and DHs was a long way from "higher level play".
I'm also looking forward to more level competition at these circuit tournaments.
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On December 20 2015 05:27 looken wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 03:28 EatingBomber wrote:On December 20 2015 03:20 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 02:59 FFgringo wrote:
IMO most of you guys don't think about this as a long term strategy that could improve the global sc2 scene. You only focus on bad aspects which are not even sure atm.
To sum up, you are afraid that it will decrease the global level as foreigners won't be able to compete regularly against top korean players.
Some others think that they will less watch high-level sc2.
Did you realize that GSL/SSL/Proleague/Kespa cup etc etc did not disappear?
Did you realize that Polt/Hydra/Jeadong... were defeated by foreigners in 2015? Some will argue that these korean players are not as good as the ones staying in korea, which is true, but frankly speaking i don't care.
What I personnaly realize is that we will have a lot of tournaments troughout the year, some which will be pro-foreigners, but GSL and SSL will still offer us incredible level and marvelous games.
Don't judge these changes too early. Wait for next blizzcon and be sure that blizzard will carefully analyze how the 2016 format will satisfy people worldwide. If it is a total fail, they will change it again in 2017, but I would not bet on that. LotV will live for a long time.
Some people believe that tournament appearances of Koreans in international tournaments are an opportunity to practice for foreigners. Personally I find this logic strange. Do you really think that a Korean - practicing exclusively on Korea - coming to a tournament to play against non-Koreans - often not having an opportunity to play there - are good practice? I thought that "practice" is tons of time spent on playing, not few bo3 or bo5 matches. There are also lots of twisted arguments against that new system, as less opportunities to meet Koreans in person. I think that if "high-quality purists" wanted to see more of high-level Korean play, they should boycott GSL/SSL whatsoever as it wastes time that could be potentially used for 2 or 3 times more online events. Or people should rethink what they want to watch, the game or Korean environment which will probably never exist outside of this country. They are not merely an opportunity to practice. They are important trials of skill for the foreigner - the fundamental point of this article - that not only actualises the storyline of the underdog foreigner standing against the elite Korean, but also provides foreigners with the increased motivation to practice harder to attain the ideal and pass the trial, ie. defeating the Korean. And with regards to your 2nd point... What? 'High-level purists' should boycott the tournaments containing the best players... because these tournaments occupy time better used for... online events? Such as the vaunted OlimoLeague and the Leifeng Cup? Your last paragraph is simply laughable. It is precisely because these 'high-level purists' want to see the greatest depths and the highest expression of skill in the game itself that they want more Korean tournaments, and more Koreans playing, in general. I think it is you who should rethink what you want to watch. The dichotomy, for us 'purists', as SC2 players and spectators, is to simply choose between objectively higher levels of play, compared to significantly lower quality play. Not because we simply want to watch the 'Korean environment'. So you think a high level Korean stomping a foreigner is higher level of play? I see your point and I can agree that it is much more fun to see two high level players fight it out, but thats what GSL is for. One less GSL tournament sucks, I give you that, but come on, seeing Koreans play vs foreigners at IEMs and DHs was a long way from "higher level play".
I was referring to GSL and SSL compared to hard-region locked WCS with the line you highlighted.
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EPT
