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On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below.
I think people criticizing him is absolutely fine, personal attacks on whatever social media obviously not.
But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene
Well he kinda did though, it shouldn't affect his career long term (like banning him or something similar), but short term this experience will surely help him to grow up a bit, his lack of awareness probably stems from the fact that he is still pretty young.
The next time he simply shouldn't open his mouth when all he has to say is "lol i didn't care"
On November 03 2015 07:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:49 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 03 2015 07:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2015 05:57 Incognoto wrote:
armchair nerds telling professional players how they should prepare their matches. I think it's just that he should have practiced in the first place... Not so much the how or the how much. I don't even think he would have gotten much flame at all if he had come with zero HotS games on the clock. He simply needed to keep his mouth shut about that ^^ Yeah pretty much. He probably didn't want that people think he performs that badly in a tournament he practiced for. Better have an excuse ready. Of course he would have gotten much less hate if he didn't say anything but for him it could be equally shameful when people think he's just bad
Probably, but let's be real. Nobody really expected him to win. This wasn't against some foreigners in an online qualifier, this was against the hardest competition you can get.
HE IS BAD IN COMPARISON, no need to downplay the almost unavoidable loss here, it makes him look even worse tbh ("hey i could have beat Life np if i cared, lol") Yeah no
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On November 03 2015 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below. I think people criticizing him is absolutely fine, personal attacks on whatever social media obviously not. Well he kinda did though, it shouldn't affect his career long term (like banning him or something similar), but short term this experience will surely help him to grow up a bit, his lack of awareness probably stems from the fact that he is still pretty young. The next time he simply shouldn't open his mouth when all he has to say is "lol i didn't care"
The perfect move would have been to tweet something like "Life too good as expected, I did my best with what I had, gg". This way you look classy, respectful and fair play while only acknowledging what everyone knows. Hell he could even have added afterwards "Sadly I couldn't prepare the match in the best conditions because of things that didn't depend on me but I ensure there will be brighter days in LotV and that you'll be able to cheer for me again" so that he touched upon the topic without offending people. Sometimes twisting reality a bit can salvage a reputation.
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On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below.
He DID embarrass the whole foreign scene, like it or not he was the only foreign player to make the top 16, a place a lot of people feel he only got (myself included) thanks to Blizzard and WCS stacking the deck with the region lock, this was a chance to show he deserved a spot, that Blizzard and WCS were justified, but he didn't even TRY, he didn't even care and worse he went on social media immediately after and made the posting equivalent of "LOL thank u for free money". What do you think KeSPA is going to say? I'm willing to wager something along the lines of "Why should our players be left out of top 16 by foreign players who aren't going to bother?" and you know what? they'd be JUSTIFIED in that based on this performance
All Lilbow did yesterday was prove what the region locks critics have said all along, it's a fucking joke.
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On November 03 2015 08:07 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below. He DID embarrass the whole foreign scene, like it or not he was the only foreign player to make the top 16, a place a lot of people feel he only got (myself included) thanks to Blizzard and WCS stacking the deck with the region lock, this was a chance to show he deserved a spot, that Blizzard and WCS were justified, but he didn't even TRY, he didn't even care and worse he went on social media immediately after and made the posting equivalent of "LOL thank u for free money". What do you think KeSPA is going to say? I'm willing to wager something along the lines of "Why should our players be left out of top 16 by foreign players who aren't going to bother?" and you know what? they'd be JUSTIFIED in that based on this performance All Lilbow did yesterday was prove what the region locks critics have said all along, it's a fucking joke.
Pretty much. He showed up, collected his welfare check, and went home. Lilbow's just being honest about the situation, so that's respectable.
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On November 03 2015 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
("hey i could have beat Life np if i cared, lol") Yeah no
basically the exact opposite of what he said
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On November 03 2015 08:07 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below. He DID embarrass the whole foreign scene, like it or not he was the only foreign player to make the top 16, a place a lot of people feel he only got (myself included) thanks to Blizzard and WCS stacking the deck with the region lock, this was a chance to show he deserved a spot, that Blizzard and WCS were justified, but he didn't even TRY, he didn't even care and worse he went on social media immediately after and made the posting equivalent of "LOL thank u for free money". What do you think KeSPA is going to say? I'm willing to wager something along the lines of "Why should our players be left out of top 16 by foreign players who aren't going to bother?" and you know what? they'd be JUSTIFIED in that based on this performance All Lilbow did yesterday was prove what the region locks critics have said all along, it's a fucking joke.
Euh don't base your opinion about regional lock on lilbows performance, these two things aren't connected all that much.
Region lock IS NEEDED to actually get people who care.
A region locked wcs simply shouldn't give as much wcs points, foreigners really don't deserve a blizzcon spot atm, they deserve an own league though.
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On November 03 2015 01:51 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On November 03 2015 01:40 TRaFFiC wrote:
I'm 100% with Lilbow on this one. First, it's Blizzard's fault for making the biggest tournament of HOTS days before LOTV release. Of course no one gives a shit about that game. I disagree with Lycan. Practicing LOTV helps ALOT. Just because they change 1-2 units doesn't change the whole game. You need thousands of games of practice with new units as a pro...
Second, it's his choice what he does in any tournament he qualifies for.
People put too much pressure on top foreigners. This thread is a shining example. He lost a few games. Who gives a shit? Move on. I just hope he doesn't pull a Naniwa and fall off the face of the earth. Expecting foreigners to fucking try is putting too much pressure on them? On November 03 2015 01:43 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 01:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On November 03 2015 01:26 Incognoto wrote:
I think that lilbow doesn't owe anyone anything. If there are players out there who felt that they deserved lilbow's spot, they should have beat lilbow.
This is life we're talking about.Life specifically said that he saw that lilbow's wall-ins were weak. this is life we're talking about. of course he's going to go for the jugular, using his signature lings to do it.
all in all, sucks but i don't think it's a problem There are tons of players who could, but they are all in Korea and didn't have the opportunity to do so. How does that have anything to do with Lilbow? You want all korean wcs? I don't. I enjoy watching top foreigners. I enjoy watch top foreigners too, a lot. But if the best the foreign scene can produce is this, then they shouldn't be at Blizzcon. This has nothing to do with trying. Lilbow himself said he tried his hardest in the matches. His word is good enough for me. He's a pro player in a scene where it's very hard to make money these days. All he did was prioritize his time to maximize his profits. This is what all pros should do. I don't see why the community thinks it's their right to choose what he spends time on.
Because this is a spectator "sport". Without the community HE HAS NO EFFING PROFITS TO MAKE. He owes his livelihood to his fans, he owes them TO FUCKING TRY when they support him.
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On November 03 2015 07:32 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:22 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 03 2015 01:03 Jade wrote:
Is there really a need to dig deeper than the facts and Lilbow's official response is my question. IMO there is, because this attitude problem doesn't begin or end with Lilbow. By many accounts this is a systemic problem with the way Western players see the game, themselves and the scene vs how Koreans see it. It's a fundamental problem that has to addressed if there ever is going to be a real push to improve the western scene. This doesn't end with Lilbow, he's just the latest example in a long history of this nonsense. If the fans truly do want to see foreign players compete on the big stage with Koreans like they claim they want to, they should NOT tolerate this attitude. I think it's not really a problem of attitude, just a not so clever choice from Lilbow. He probably knew on the inside that he doesn't have what it takes to beat such a player as Life in the most meaningful tournament of HotS (at least in 2015) but could not completely accept the idea. Trying his best then failing would confirm for sure he was right, but not practicing would allow him to think he could have beaten life had he practiced. Except it's not really a problem if he can't beat Life, fans for sure would not blame him had he tried his best so it was a win win situation. If anything, this whole debacle confirms that the only french player worthy of the title 'Napoleon' or a 'pun version' of it, is Stephano.
This was my first thought as well. He spent so much time and effort to qualify for blizzcon, I just don't believe that he doesn't care about it. I find it more plausible the he avoided the personal humiliation of being outclassed by koreans by not even trying in the first hand. He may not realise it himself, he may have some double-defense mechanism that stops him from acknowledging that he doesn't try because he doesn't dare to, instead he fools himself into thinking that it is a strategical choice.
That said, I can't know what's going on in his head, but I find this take on it the most believable from the little information I have.
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On November 03 2015 08:14 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:07 showstealer1829 wrote:On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below. He DID embarrass the whole foreign scene, like it or not he was the only foreign player to make the top 16, a place a lot of people feel he only got (myself included) thanks to Blizzard and WCS stacking the deck with the region lock, this was a chance to show he deserved a spot, that Blizzard and WCS were justified, but he didn't even TRY, he didn't even care and worse he went on social media immediately after and made the posting equivalent of "LOL thank u for free money". What do you think KeSPA is going to say? I'm willing to wager something along the lines of "Why should our players be left out of top 16 by foreign players who aren't going to bother?" and you know what? they'd be JUSTIFIED in that based on this performance All Lilbow did yesterday was prove what the region locks critics have said all along, it's a fucking joke. Euh don't base your opinion about regional lock on lilbows performance, these two things aren't connected all that much. Region lock IS NEEDED to actually get people who care. A region locked wcs simply shouldn't give as much wcs points, foreigners really don't deserve a blizzcon spot atm, they deserve an own league though.
That's a fair call. I'll grant you that. Either reduce the number of points WCS Global gives or End the Region lock, either works.
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On November 03 2015 08:12 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:07 showstealer1829 wrote:On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below. He DID embarrass the whole foreign scene, like it or not he was the only foreign player to make the top 16, a place a lot of people feel he only got (myself included) thanks to Blizzard and WCS stacking the deck with the region lock, this was a chance to show he deserved a spot, that Blizzard and WCS were justified, but he didn't even TRY, he didn't even care and worse he went on social media immediately after and made the posting equivalent of "LOL thank u for free money". What do you think KeSPA is going to say? I'm willing to wager something along the lines of "Why should our players be left out of top 16 by foreign players who aren't going to bother?" and you know what? they'd be JUSTIFIED in that based on this performance All Lilbow did yesterday was prove what the region locks critics have said all along, it's a fucking joke. Pretty much. He showed up, collected his welfare check, and went home. Lilbow's just being honest about the situation, so that's respectable.
Respectable for him MAYBE, but it does cast a very negative light on Region Locking as a whole. Make no doubt about it, this whole situation makes the naysayers on region locking (like myself) feel very vindicated.
If people still want Region Locking, they need to start thinking of solutions real quick to how to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen again.
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On November 03 2015 07:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 03 2015 07:34 Cricketer12 wrote:
Shit like this is why giving foreigners hand outs pisses me off, they waste the gifts they are given. The TLO point especially. Especially when there are much more deserving players in Korea like soO who could've come instead. I don't think this is really a point, soO knew the rules and he didn't perform well in GSL/SSL. Lilbow hasn't stolen anything from anybody, man I have to say his WCS season 3 performance was quite stellar, though he had lucky games.
Lilbow didn't steal anything, he was given a gift. That gift was a noncompetitive league with a competitive reward.
Did he play his heart out to win WCS EU? I'm sure that he did. Is that a meaningful accomplishment? Fuck no.
He got a gift and instead of being gracious and humble, threw it back in the faces of people - including his own fans - who tuned in for great games, of Blizzard who organized the region-locked WCS system to give him this opportunity, and of the Koreans who missed out on the 16th spot.
He might not have wanted the baggage that accompanies the honor of being the #1 foreigner, but that doesn't mean he gets to escape them.
After a season of Star Trek: TOS, the actress who plays Uhura ran into Martin Luther King Jr. at a party. MLK thanked Nichelle Nichols for playing Uhura, and Nichelle confided in him that she had just told Gene Roddenberry that she was quitting the show, on account of the role being, basically, shitty and tertiary.
MLK said “Do you not understand what God has given you? … You have the first important non-traditional role, non-stereotypical role. … You cannot abdicate your position. You are changing the minds of people across the world, because for the first time, through you, we see ourselves and what can be.”
That's all to show that sometimes people find themselves in positions that are about a lot more than just themselves. Whether they wanted it or not, whether it's "fair" or not, something above and beyond the bare minimum is expected of them. Lilbow made a conscious decision to do the bare minimum possible, on the biggest, most symbolically meaningful stage available. Region-locked WCS needed a champion and Lilbow said "hahahaha nope."
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On November 03 2015 08:12 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
("hey i could have beat Life np if i cared, lol") Yeah no basically the exact opposite of what he said
Ok i ridiculed his comment, he said he MAYBE would have won vs Life if he practiced.
Still a ridiculous claim to make after the whole situation.
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On November 03 2015 08:12 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
("hey i could have beat Life np if i cared, lol") Yeah no basically the exact opposite of what he said
Actually
Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
Tried a practiced a bit later clarified to be two games in one month. It's more or less what Cascade said, he's just trying to protect his own ego with the 'Can't fail if you don't try' mental fallacy'. Of course it backfired and he's not getting any community support so he's trolling back on Twitter or w/e.
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On November 03 2015 08:07 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below. He DID embarrass the whole foreign scene, like it or not he was the only foreign player to make the top 16, a place a lot of people feel he only got (myself included) thanks to Blizzard and WCS stacking the deck with the region lock, this was a chance to show he deserved a spot, that Blizzard and WCS were justified, but he didn't even TRY, he didn't even care and worse he went on social media immediately after and made the posting equivalent of "LOL thank u for free money". What do you think KeSPA is going to say? I'm willing to wager something along the lines of "Why should our players be left out of top 16 by foreign players who aren't going to bother?" and you know what? they'd be JUSTIFIED in that based on this performance All Lilbow did yesterday was prove what the region locks critics have said all along, it's a fucking joke.
It's a joke to those that don't understand that blizzcon isn't supposed to be the highest quality tournament, but blizzard's covergirl to gain as much interest as possible.
Just because you and others can't look past hype and advertising to understand that blizzcon plainly isn't the highest level tournament out there doesn't make it a joke.
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On November 03 2015 08:14 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:07 showstealer1829 wrote:On November 03 2015 07:54 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 07:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 03 2015 07:02 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 06:33 Charoisaur wrote:
People still defending lilbow don't understand what's going on.
He was the sole foreign representive at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP he basically represented the foreign scene.
Many people were criticizing the WCS system because it enabled a foreigner to be at blizzcon and so fans of foreign sc2 hoped lilbow proved that foreigners deserve to be at blizzcon
So lilbow not only disappointed his fans but embarassed the entire foreign scene, made the WCS system look like a joke and took a spot that other players like hyun would have deserved 1000 times more. Also he disrespected his opponent, the tournament organizers and got a paid trip to the USA for nothing.
So yes he deserves every inche of hate he gets. This is exactly the stupidity behind a lot of posts. Lilbow wasn't sent by some "united foreigner community" as their representative. He didn't choose to be the only foreigner there. It's his fucking life, he didn't do something ridiculous like Naniwa and dropped out midgame. He just didn't prepare as well as he could have, an example of thousands every year in every sport. And he didn't even do it out of lazyness, he didn't waste his time with party escapes or whoring around. Every greater football club in Europe has to choose how to prioritize their player and training resources between European leagues, national leagues and cups. Every olympic winter games the NHL and their players are forced to make the decision between the biggest event for national teams, or the biggest league in the world. And I'm sorry, but the players, teams and leagues often don't decide in favor of the most prestigeous event possible, but rather the ones they have responsibilities towards or the ones that they feel more capable of managing. Same here, Lilbow chose the LotV DH that he actually has a chance in over getting crushed by Life or INnoVation one way or another anyways. By the way, we see the same thing happening over and over again with proleague in Starcraft anyways. Players dropping out of international events on short notice or coming underprepared to them. The only difference is Lilbow's stupid twitter posts instead of a well-constructed PR declaration with some apology towards his fans for not playing better. How is it even relevant though if he chose it or not? It simply isn't. The fact is that he was the only foreigner and a lot of people were very excited about him playing at blizzcon. I am sure he knew it and what it means. He simply chose not to care, which might be the better decision for him personally (i actually doubt it very much, but hey let's just pretend it is), but for fans who cheered for him, stayed awake till late hours to watch him play? Yeah that had to be a slap in the face. It was fucking Blizzcon and not some random online cup, this changes a lot. Yeah, but how is this shitstorm justified? That people are pissed is their right. But saying things like he embarasses the whole foreign scene and shit like that is just way out of proportion. Sometimes in life people disappoint you with their sometimes selfish decisions. That's bad enough, but you learn to move on. Or you create a stupid shitstorm and put yourself on the same level or even below. He DID embarrass the whole foreign scene, like it or not he was the only foreign player to make the top 16, a place a lot of people feel he only got (myself included) thanks to Blizzard and WCS stacking the deck with the region lock, this was a chance to show he deserved a spot, that Blizzard and WCS were justified, but he didn't even TRY, he didn't even care and worse he went on social media immediately after and made the posting equivalent of "LOL thank u for free money". What do you think KeSPA is going to say? I'm willing to wager something along the lines of "Why should our players be left out of top 16 by foreign players who aren't going to bother?" and you know what? they'd be JUSTIFIED in that based on this performance All Lilbow did yesterday was prove what the region locks critics have said all along, it's a fucking joke. Euh don't base your opinion about regional lock on lilbows performance, these two things aren't connected all that much. Region lock IS NEEDED to actually get people who care. A region locked wcs simply shouldn't give as much wcs points, foreigners really don't deserve a blizzcon spot atm, they deserve an own league though.
Hmm, not sure about that. Polt and Hydra did fine and Lilbow was able to be a match for them in WCS. Besides, the foreign scene needs the incentive to be able to qualify for the "World Championships".
It's just so disappointing to me that he didn't really try. His choice of course but hard for me to understand. His clumsy (his own words) excuses are just really dumb on top of that.
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Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
God I had missed that one. Someone really needs to steal his keyboard.
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On November 03 2015 08:18 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:12 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
("hey i could have beat Life np if i cared, lol") Yeah no basically the exact opposite of what he said Actually Show nested quote +Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
Tried a practiced a bit later clarified to be two games in one month. It's more or less what Cascade said, he's just trying to protect his own ego with the 'Can't fail if you don't try' mental fallacy'. Of course it backfired and he's not getting any community support so he's trolling back on Twitter or w/e.
That's weird, in the pregame video he said the opposite of this. Are you sure he didn't mean "couldn't" and mistyped? Otherwise I don't see how that makes sense.
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On November 03 2015 08:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
God I had missed that one. Someone should really steal his keyboard.
It was buried as a reply to someone saying he should have just forfeit if he didn't think he could beat Life / wasn't going to practice.
He's just all over the place trying to soothe his own ego and backtracking when people call him out on his stupid responses.
On November 03 2015 08:22 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:18 Wuster wrote:On November 03 2015 08:12 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
("hey i could have beat Life np if i cared, lol") Yeah no basically the exact opposite of what he said Actually Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
Tried a practiced a bit later clarified to be two games in one month. It's more or less what Cascade said, he's just trying to protect his own ego with the 'Can't fail if you don't try' mental fallacy'. Of course it backfired and he's not getting any community support so he's trolling back on Twitter or w/e. That's weird, in the pregame video he said the opposite of this. Are you sure he didn't mean "couldn't" and mistyped? Otherwise I don't see how that makes sense.
I copied and pasted his message: here's a link now that I figured out how to link replies:
https://www.facebook.com/LilbowSC/posts/791932830929232?comment_id=791937984262050&reply_comment_id=791938797595302&total_comments=9&comment_tracking={"tn":"R9"}
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On November 03 2015 08:22 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
God I had missed that one. Someone should really steal his keyboard. It was buried as a reply to someone saying he should have just forfeit if he didn't think he could beat Life / wasn't going to practice. He's just all over the place trying to soothe his own ego and backtracking when people call him out on his stupid responses.
Millenium managers should really pay him a week of holidays in the South of France with no computers at all, so that he stops embarrassing himself and comes back to LotV with a fresh and rested mind.
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On November 03 2015 08:22 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
God I had missed that one. Someone should really steal his keyboard. It was buried as a reply to someone saying he should have just forfeit if he didn't think he could beat Life / wasn't going to practice. He's just all over the place trying to soothe his own ego and backtracking when people call him out on his stupid responses. Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 08:22 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 08:18 Wuster wrote:On November 03 2015 08:12 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
("hey i could have beat Life np if i cared, lol") Yeah no basically the exact opposite of what he said Actually Lilbow's Facebook
I knew i could beat life, i tried and i practiced a bit, lotv is coming soon and i want to be good at this game.
Tried a practiced a bit later clarified to be two games in one month. It's more or less what Cascade said, he's just trying to protect his own ego with the 'Can't fail if you don't try' mental fallacy'. Of course it backfired and he's not getting any community support so he's trolling back on Twitter or w/e. That's weird, in the pregame video he said the opposite of this. Are you sure he didn't mean "couldn't" and mistyped? Otherwise I don't see how that makes sense. I copied and pasted his message: here's a link now that I figured out how to link replies: https://www.facebook.com/LilbowSC/posts/791932830929232?comment_id=791937984262050&reply_comment_id=791938797595302&total_comments=9&comment_tracking={"tn":"R9"}
Next sentence starts with "however", and isn't contradictory to the first sentence. I really think he meant to write "couldn't" here.
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EPT
