EPTGreatest Players of All Time: Part 3 - Page 23
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negativedge
4279 Posts
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On April 27 2015 11:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: See, this right here... Mvp is clearly #1, but I don't agree at all with the assessment of Life and actually think he's rapidly nearing Mvp's level. I mean, Life just came off winning Blizzcon, IEM Taipei, GSL, and wasn't even that far off from winning the NSSL. He has 3 GSL titles and 10 Premieres to his name with excellent spread over time. I understand, and I think he could get there some way. In some ways it's more of a "feeling" you have about the player than a specific set of accomplishments. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On April 27 2015 09:44 stuchiu wrote: For the last part then I'd recommend reading the other 2 sections since it they very much tie into the mythology. All right, I'll take a look. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
I also want to stress that even that statement is a bit of a stretch, yeah Mvp won the second GSL in 2012, but that was after a long stretch. He had been doing pretty poorly in the first half of 2012. He also later got to the finals of GSL verses life And his 2013 WCS run in season finals where he faced Innovation was great, but I'm going to put that more as a fluke. In essence MVP dominated much of 2011, and then through his brilliance did great, isolated runs in the GSL season 2, the one versus life, and WCS Season finals. The question thus is that better than Life who has been less "dominant" (though still regarded as the best player in the world for several periods of 2012-2015). To be honest, Life's win at the global finals to me was just as impressive if not more than MVPs 2012 GSL run, the only reason we celebrate MVPs more is because Mvp had been doing far worse before he won. Also Mvp (except for 2012) always had a weak TvP matchup so there's that too, while Life has been traditionally strong in all matchups. I want to say if Mvp is #1 a lot of it will probably focus on his brilliance and ability to think about the game, and win when no one expects it (and thus he's like a hero in addition to an awesome player). I don't deny that, I just think Life is ahead. It's a tough question but I'll personally go with life. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On April 27 2015 13:32 Pandain wrote: Also as a side note there has never been a SC2 player more dominant in all three matchups than Taeja during the summer of 2012. Bogus early HotS. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 27 2015 09:14 TheDwf wrote: Life won because Zerg was completely broken against Terran at the end of WoL. The fact he barely won 4-3 indeed speaks volumes about how much he was outplayed. Unfortunately, unlike the Nestea vs MarineKing finals, justice did not prevail in the last game. Such is life! At this point I don't even know If people actually believe this or not | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
PartinG > Leenock if we are talking about top SC2 players of all time. There is no question PartinG has achieved much more than Leenock in SC2. Disappointed that the OP didn't consider PartinG. I feel that the OP should have thought through this list and discussed it with other people before publicizing it. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On April 27 2015 10:34 althaz wrote: So much this - Mvp was defeated by his body, not by Life. Life is an amazing player - but Mvp is SC2's only Bonjwa. lol can we not use a BW word that is so overused in so many different contexts. It's a term that will never have any meaning in SC2 | ||
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shockaslim
United States1105 Posts
On April 27 2015 10:55 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Life or Mvp? I mean either way their path was awesome not really awful. Life's was a story of dominance and a new age. Mvp's was a miraculous run of a tired veteran who won through intellect and experience. All that final needed was better games and it could've been the best series ever. Story wise I don't think it can be beat. Well, I meant Mvp. He was in such bad shape that he had to practically outsmart every single person he played. Which really is quite brilliant, but for Mvp standards if he was 100 percent he would have been smashing nerds. | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 27 2015 14:29 xelnaga_empire wrote: I'm assuming Life and MVP will get the last 2 spots. If that is the case, PartinG was left out of the top 15. PartinG > Leenock if we are talking about top SC2 players of all time. There is no question PartinG has achieved much more than Leenock in SC2. Disappointed that the OP didn't consider PartinG. I feel that the OP should have thought through this list and discussed it with other people before publicizing it. I did consider Parting. The people I talked to didn't have a particularly strong inclination for including Parrting in the top 15. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 27 2015 14:33 Whatson wrote: lol can we not use a BW word that is so overused in so many different contexts. It's a term that will never have any meaning in SC2 Yeah, sadly. Unless LotV sets things right, we'll not even get a Mvp again, despite the player pool being better than ever. | ||
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Mirnan
Norway5 Posts
On April 27 2015 08:41 nimdil wrote: I'm assuming you're not trolling so: Soulkey won 1 tournament, if you ignore WCG in which he only needed to beat one strong player to win the whole thing - a player mostly known for his WCG runs. Stephano does not belong on the top 10 even. I'd argue that he should been in top 15 but that's it. Life obviosuly is in top 2, perhaps top 1. Parting was strong but he rarely delivered when it mattered most. Sure he won 3 premiers, was runner up in Blizzard Cup but if you look into details, his championship runs weren't particulary hard. So the way thsi ranking works, he is not ranked hard, obviously. My bad. I thought MVP had already been listed. But he hasn't so obviously MVP is #2 and Life #1. This has to be it right? I still think it's weird to not have Parting on the list, a player who was such a top protoss for so long and is still kind of relevant, and he is perhaps the most famous protoss player of all time except MC. I'm totally okay with Taeja being #3, but where's Bomber? I'd place him before Leenock and even MMA. Still can't believe MMA is #6. He should be on the list, but if you look at say DRG i think DRG's reign as the best zerg player lasted longer than MMAs reign as the best terran player. MMA needs to be degraded and DRG needs to be upgraded IMO. But still, a pretty good list overall :D | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7834 Posts
That being said, I know SC2 has a vibrant international scene and it's a different game so I can't complain! I've enjoyed the list thus far and also enjoy the Taeja debate. | ||
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genai
Croatia78 Posts
On April 26 2015 21:09 YuiHirasawa wrote: That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT. Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way. Yet he has several games among great games list. Watch him against Rain, Innovation, Solar (that just silly 200 vs 200 fights where he still snipes banelings and mutas... ends up with less than half of resource lost of Solar even in loses), Life, Zest(being considered god at the time... losing both times he met Taeja), soO (playing godlike according to artosis... and it wasnt enough to beat Taeja) Life, Jaedong(during blizzcon when everyone thought he was done for and he stomped everyone, even beat sOs on equal bases because he never scouted hidden base... and sOs had to cheese every game to win), MMA and Taeja... the guys that made me love sc2 Not to mention his dominance during the times T was considered the weakest, and likes of Maru, Innovation, Flash etc were nowhere to be found... and if Tournament had T in top4 or finals(or even top8)... it was 99% just 1 guy, and it was Taeja... Taeja at his peak is nr1 player ever in my book... | ||
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Frakkofff
Russian Federation66 Posts
But i like your work anyway, i cried of happiness even. Thanks for all this passion. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 27 2015 19:45 genai wrote: Yet he has several games among great games list. Watch him against Rain, Innovation, Solar (that just silly 200 vs 200 fights where he still snipes banelings and mutas... ends up with less than half of resource lost of Solar even in loses), Life, Zest(being considered god at the time... losing both times he met Taeja), soO (playing godlike according to artosis... and it wasnt enough to beat Taeja) For his level, soO's play at Blizzcon was disastrous in the Nimbus game. It reminded me of the (in)famous Nestea vs Mvp game on Shakuras at the 2011 Blizzcon. I can't comment on the IEM Toronto series, but Zest's play in the IEM Shenzhen one was awful as well. Names alone mean little, you really have to look at the content of the games; TaeJa's play was of course extremely solid in those games, but he had much more impressive achievements than mauling heavily under-performing players. Those series were similar to TaeJa bashing MC 4-0 at the HSC IX. As for people claiming TaeJa did not produce any notable game... yeah, no. Even if his style is rather bland, you really have to be blind not to find jaw-dropping stuff in the compendium of his games. It's really a pity he'll leave the game without having a GSL under his belt. | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On April 27 2015 14:36 stuchiu wrote: I did consider Parting. The people I talked to didn't have a particularly strong inclination for including Parrting in the top 15. In the final post, i would request why did you exclude the tosses, foreigners, Proleague monsters, and ex-startale bomber/parting? 1. Parting 2. Stephano 3. Bomber 4. Jaedong 5. the two heroes (CJHero,liquidHero) 6. zest 7. sos 8. squirtle 9. Classic 10. Naniwa 11. the Proleague stars- Losira, Bbyong, Flash, More specifically. + Show Spoiler + Since the final post only has two, I feel that you could add much more to your debate. Particularly, why did you leave out certain players. There's about 10 or more than i felt were stronger than marine king. At the end of 2012, early 2013 i don't know who I would consider better than Parting. he won the wcs grand finals. took several first there and seconds in gsl. He was one of the dominant players of proleague as well. (i know you kind of hate proleague from your original post on who you chose. which excluded several players like stephano, flash, losira, cj hero) the 3 biggest names i felt were startale bomber and parting and stephano got the short end of the stick. Jaedong to is scary as hell. (Jaedong, losira, hyun, and zest i feel could beat any player any day as well.) I would like to see parting/bomber/stephano/sos/squirtle/zest/hero/hero/classic/jaedong/Naniwa in particular addressed in the post of the top 15. Why these all fell short in your mind? | ||
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LemonyTang
United Kingdom428 Posts
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