• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:25
CET 16:25
KST 00:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win1BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced14[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? The Perfect Game Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2120 users

Pinnacle voids Dark vs. San bets due to match manipulation…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1079 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 47 48 49 50 51 54 Next
Matchfixing is a very serious offence and accusations of matchfixing should not be made lightly. Please avoid making accusations against specific individuals unless you have substantial proof, or until further information is released. (0620 KST)
dsousa
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1363 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 02:31:33
February 27 2015 02:15 GMT
#961
I don't think its smart to be betting on SC2 at this point.

Alarm bells have been going off for a while and when there is no reaction that just tells the people doing these things that they can get away with it.

So they are. It would seem it's a proven business model at this point. Some people are getting away with making $10,000's on virtually meaningless SC2 games. Who else is really making that much money in SC2 nowadays?

Its too big of a profit margin to ignore..... except for the fan boys, they know its all a lie.


Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33495 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 02:42:13
February 27 2015 02:37 GMT
#962
that's absurd odds for a Bo1.... that's like a foreigner vs Korean match -_-
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
February 27 2015 02:55 GMT
#963
I wish I had more of an idea about betting. But it is pretty silly if the community is that wild to find some drama to give it to them like this, unless of course thats the plan or they just want to make one last big money grab and then another ...
messioso
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark635 Posts
February 27 2015 02:55 GMT
#964
On February 27 2015 11:37 Waxangel wrote:
that's absurd odds for a Bo1.... that's like a foreigner vs Korean match -_-


Racist.
Former ESL League Operations. I ran IEM/WCS for like 3 years or something. I did map vetos on a tablet. That guy.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
February 27 2015 07:45 GMT
#965
Wow, and it continues! Is pinnacle doing anything at all about this? Like investigating the accounts, tracking down the actual people, police, etc? Does pinnacle consider this an acceptable state of sc2 betting?
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
February 27 2015 07:55 GMT
#966
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 27 2015 09:07 GMT
#967
So has it been the case that every time there was a suspicious line that the game was won by the player who was betted on?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
February 27 2015 13:56 GMT
#968
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.


Well i think you can compare it to map hackers. In the cases the opponent hides it well you never even think about that he could be maphacking.
At this point I think it might be possible that there are quite a number of match fixed games. I heard from several professional betters that they lost a lot of money recently. It's difficult to detect if the match fixers hide it well and don't get too greedy. There are always movements on the lines. I saw some medium sized movements myself.
Cj hero | Zest
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
February 27 2015 14:06 GMT
#969
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.

I have been in the online gaming industry for a long time and I've seen incredible stupid fraud attempts that had basicly no hope of getting through even the automated checks. I have also been asked to participate in them (note: not esports/sports betting frauds) and told them not to do it, but they still did and got caught. Greed, ignorance, stupidity, take your bet (ehehe).
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 27 2015 14:18 GMT
#970
On February 27 2015 23:06 Jarree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.

I have been in the online gaming industry for a long time and I've seen incredible stupid fraud attempts that had basicly no hope of getting through even the automated checks. I have also been asked to participate in them (note: not esports/sports betting frauds) and told them not to do it, but they still did and got caught. Greed, ignorance, stupidity, take your bet (ehehe).

A combination of the three, I guess.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 15:06:29
February 27 2015 14:30 GMT
#971
EDIT: Nothing to see here. I thought there was betting-in-play like there is in some other sports. I'll leave the post here so you can have a giggle anyway

Just a thought, but what if there was no match-fixing, and shutting the betting down was the whole point of the exercise?

Here's how it would work:

You place your bet as normal, and if things go well, great. But if it looks like you're going to lose, you arrange for a barrage of heavy bets to come in for the other guy, shove the line all to hell, trip the automated systems and get your money back. No suspicion will attach to you because you bet against the way the line was pushed. All the attention gets focused on the losing player, who hasn't got a clue what was going on. And in the event the bets go through, you win big anyway via the barrage of proxy bets.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
February 27 2015 14:38 GMT
#972
On February 27 2015 23:30 Umpteen wrote:
Just a thought, but what if there was no match-fixing, and shutting the betting down was the whole point of the exercise?

Here's how it would work:

You place your bet as normal, and if things go well, great. But if it looks like you're going to lose, you arrange for a barrage of heavy bets to come in for the other guy, shove the line all to hell, trip the automated systems and get your money back. No suspicion will attach to you because you bet against the way the line was pushed. All the attention gets focused on the losing player, who hasn't got a clue what was going on. And in the event the bets go through, you win big anyway via the barrage of proxy bets.


That makes no sense at all. You know that the lines close before the match starts?
Cj hero | Zest
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 27 2015 14:50 GMT
#973
On February 27 2015 23:38 StarGalaxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 23:30 Umpteen wrote:
Just a thought, but what if there was no match-fixing, and shutting the betting down was the whole point of the exercise?

Here's how it would work:

You place your bet as normal, and if things go well, great. But if it looks like you're going to lose, you arrange for a barrage of heavy bets to come in for the other guy, shove the line all to hell, trip the automated systems and get your money back. No suspicion will attach to you because you bet against the way the line was pushed. All the attention gets focused on the losing player, who hasn't got a clue what was going on. And in the event the bets go through, you win big anyway via the barrage of proxy bets.


That makes no sense at all. You know that the lines close before the match starts?

Never heard of time travel? d:
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
February 27 2015 15:05 GMT
#974
Ah, sorry - forget it. I'm used to other sports where there's betting in play. As you were
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Swoopae
Profile Joined January 2015
Australia339 Posts
February 27 2015 21:55 GMT
#975
On February 27 2015 18:07 Grumbels wrote:
So has it been the case that every time there was a suspicious line that the game was won by the player who was betted on?


Yes

On February 27 2015 16:45 Cascade wrote:
Wow, and it continues! Is pinnacle doing anything at all about this? Like investigating the accounts, tracking down the actual people, police, etc? Does pinnacle consider this an acceptable state of sc2 betting?


As of last I heard the match is still ungraded which means they're investigating

They've offered to share info with Kespa/Blizzard if they investigate but Pinnacle is a caribbean-based sportsbetting company they're not the police and don't have any authority over esports

Swoopae
Profile Joined January 2015
Australia339 Posts
February 27 2015 21:57 GMT
#976
On February 27 2015 22:56 StarGalaxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.


Well i think you can compare it to map hackers. In the cases the opponent hides it well you never even think about that he could be maphacking.
At this point I think it might be possible that there are quite a number of match fixed games. I heard from several professional betters that they lost a lot of money recently. It's difficult to detect if the match fixers hide it well and don't get too greedy. There are always movements on the lines. I saw some medium sized movements myself.


For what it's worth i've had my worst month ever betting esports in around two years of betting, that alone doesn't mean anything but almost all of the usually profitable esports bettors and handicappers I know have been getting crushed lately. I didn't have a bet on the match in question this time although I did on both of the two matches that were found suspicious previously (once on the winning side and once on the losing side, but before the insane betting action that skewed the odds both times)
Swoopae
Profile Joined January 2015
Australia339 Posts
February 27 2015 22:03 GMT
#977
Seriously why is there not more attention being brought to this? I even PM'd a TL mod. Does matchfixing only get attention when barrages of claims are made on twitter? I've send Kespa the relevant information twice now and received no reply.

Does the esports community really not care that match fixing is probably going on at the highest level? I'm so disappointed. All I want to see is a proper investigation into the matter.

Another possibility is that the major Kespa streams are slightly delayed and we don't know about it, similar to the Olimoley observer scandal, but I really doubt that's the case with major leagues. Can someone confirm that isn't the case? Because if it isn't, then it's very highly likely that players are involved in match fixing and it would be fairly simple to prove with a basic investigation by Kespa when the bookmaker in question has agreed to cooperate with an investigation.
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
February 27 2015 22:07 GMT
#978
what is a good way to contact Richard Lewis? you could ask what he's doing with the evidence sent to him regarding the stream delays. It would be a start.

the subject has my attention, but I'm betting lots of people are like me, they don't have anything to contribute to the subject. I don't have my own evidence or contacts or anything of the sort.

there's still a big divide between us and Korea, where this is taking place.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
February 27 2015 22:12 GMT
#979
keep up the good work swoopae!
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
February 27 2015 22:33 GMT
#980
On February 28 2015 07:03 Swoopae wrote:
Seriously why is there not more attention being brought to this? I even PM'd a TL mod. Does matchfixing only get attention when barrages of claims are made on twitter? I've send Kespa the relevant information twice now and received no reply.

Does the esports community really not care that match fixing is probably going on at the highest level? I'm so disappointed. All I want to see is a proper investigation into the matter.

Another possibility is that the major Kespa streams are slightly delayed and we don't know about it, similar to the Olimoley observer scandal, but I really doubt that's the case with major leagues. Can someone confirm that isn't the case? Because if it isn't, then it's very highly likely that players are involved in match fixing and it would be fairly simple to prove with a basic investigation by Kespa when the bookmaker in question has agreed to cooperate with an investigation.


Given that it's played before a life studio audience I'd be surprised if there was any sort of delay on the games.
Prev 1 47 48 49 50 51 54 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#63
Clem vs SolarLIVE!
WardiTV1261
Harstem412
TKL 336
Rex106
IntoTheiNu 19
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 412
TKL 336
Fuzer 210
Rex 106
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40355
Soma 1266
Light 927
firebathero 797
Jaedong 747
actioN 689
Mini 685
BeSt 553
Stork 538
EffOrt 503
[ Show more ]
hero 346
PianO 122
sorry 121
Hyun 71
Sharp 59
ggaemo 56
Pusan 53
Snow 50
Sea.KH 36
Mong 29
Aegong 28
JYJ26
Terrorterran 23
Sacsri 22
scan(afreeca) 20
soO 20
Shinee 19
Rock 17
zelot 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
SilentControl 11
Dota 2
Gorgc3201
singsing2828
qojqva1396
Dendi831
syndereN216
boxi98136
XcaliburYe126
Counter-Strike
fl0m4003
zeus1735
Other Games
hiko966
crisheroes417
Lowko362
Happy356
Hui .285
RotterdaM142
Mew2King116
Liquid`VortiX115
ArmadaUGS75
QueenE62
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2291
• WagamamaTV396
• lizZardDota240
League of Legends
• TFBlade776
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
1h 35m
StarCraft2.fi
1h 35m
Replay Cast
8h 35m
Wardi Open
20h 35m
StarCraft2.fi
1d 1h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 9h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
SC Evo League
4 days
BSL 21
5 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.