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Pinnacle voids Dark vs. San bets due to match manipulation…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1079 CommentsPost a Reply
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Matchfixing is a very serious offence and accusations of matchfixing should not be made lightly. Please avoid making accusations against specific individuals unless you have substantial proof, or until further information is released. (0620 KST)
dsousa
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1363 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 02:31:33
February 27 2015 02:15 GMT
#961
I don't think its smart to be betting on SC2 at this point.

Alarm bells have been going off for a while and when there is no reaction that just tells the people doing these things that they can get away with it.

So they are. It would seem it's a proven business model at this point. Some people are getting away with making $10,000's on virtually meaningless SC2 games. Who else is really making that much money in SC2 nowadays?

Its too big of a profit margin to ignore..... except for the fan boys, they know its all a lie.


Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33629 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 02:42:13
February 27 2015 02:37 GMT
#962
that's absurd odds for a Bo1.... that's like a foreigner vs Korean match -_-
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
February 27 2015 02:55 GMT
#963
I wish I had more of an idea about betting. But it is pretty silly if the community is that wild to find some drama to give it to them like this, unless of course thats the plan or they just want to make one last big money grab and then another ...
messioso
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark635 Posts
February 27 2015 02:55 GMT
#964
On February 27 2015 11:37 Waxangel wrote:
that's absurd odds for a Bo1.... that's like a foreigner vs Korean match -_-


Racist.
Former ESL League Operations. I ran IEM/WCS for like 3 years or something. I did map vetos on a tablet. That guy.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
February 27 2015 07:45 GMT
#965
Wow, and it continues! Is pinnacle doing anything at all about this? Like investigating the accounts, tracking down the actual people, police, etc? Does pinnacle consider this an acceptable state of sc2 betting?
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
February 27 2015 07:55 GMT
#966
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 27 2015 09:07 GMT
#967
So has it been the case that every time there was a suspicious line that the game was won by the player who was betted on?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
February 27 2015 13:56 GMT
#968
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.


Well i think you can compare it to map hackers. In the cases the opponent hides it well you never even think about that he could be maphacking.
At this point I think it might be possible that there are quite a number of match fixed games. I heard from several professional betters that they lost a lot of money recently. It's difficult to detect if the match fixers hide it well and don't get too greedy. There are always movements on the lines. I saw some medium sized movements myself.
Cj hero | Zest
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
February 27 2015 14:06 GMT
#969
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.

I have been in the online gaming industry for a long time and I've seen incredible stupid fraud attempts that had basicly no hope of getting through even the automated checks. I have also been asked to participate in them (note: not esports/sports betting frauds) and told them not to do it, but they still did and got caught. Greed, ignorance, stupidity, take your bet (ehehe).
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 27 2015 14:18 GMT
#970
On February 27 2015 23:06 Jarree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.

I have been in the online gaming industry for a long time and I've seen incredible stupid fraud attempts that had basicly no hope of getting through even the automated checks. I have also been asked to participate in them (note: not esports/sports betting frauds) and told them not to do it, but they still did and got caught. Greed, ignorance, stupidity, take your bet (ehehe).

A combination of the three, I guess.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 15:06:29
February 27 2015 14:30 GMT
#971
EDIT: Nothing to see here. I thought there was betting-in-play like there is in some other sports. I'll leave the post here so you can have a giggle anyway

Just a thought, but what if there was no match-fixing, and shutting the betting down was the whole point of the exercise?

Here's how it would work:

You place your bet as normal, and if things go well, great. But if it looks like you're going to lose, you arrange for a barrage of heavy bets to come in for the other guy, shove the line all to hell, trip the automated systems and get your money back. No suspicion will attach to you because you bet against the way the line was pushed. All the attention gets focused on the losing player, who hasn't got a clue what was going on. And in the event the bets go through, you win big anyway via the barrage of proxy bets.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
February 27 2015 14:38 GMT
#972
On February 27 2015 23:30 Umpteen wrote:
Just a thought, but what if there was no match-fixing, and shutting the betting down was the whole point of the exercise?

Here's how it would work:

You place your bet as normal, and if things go well, great. But if it looks like you're going to lose, you arrange for a barrage of heavy bets to come in for the other guy, shove the line all to hell, trip the automated systems and get your money back. No suspicion will attach to you because you bet against the way the line was pushed. All the attention gets focused on the losing player, who hasn't got a clue what was going on. And in the event the bets go through, you win big anyway via the barrage of proxy bets.


That makes no sense at all. You know that the lines close before the match starts?
Cj hero | Zest
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 27 2015 14:50 GMT
#973
On February 27 2015 23:38 StarGalaxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 23:30 Umpteen wrote:
Just a thought, but what if there was no match-fixing, and shutting the betting down was the whole point of the exercise?

Here's how it would work:

You place your bet as normal, and if things go well, great. But if it looks like you're going to lose, you arrange for a barrage of heavy bets to come in for the other guy, shove the line all to hell, trip the automated systems and get your money back. No suspicion will attach to you because you bet against the way the line was pushed. All the attention gets focused on the losing player, who hasn't got a clue what was going on. And in the event the bets go through, you win big anyway via the barrage of proxy bets.


That makes no sense at all. You know that the lines close before the match starts?

Never heard of time travel? d:
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
February 27 2015 15:05 GMT
#974
Ah, sorry - forget it. I'm used to other sports where there's betting in play. As you were
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Swoopae
Profile Joined January 2015
Australia339 Posts
February 27 2015 21:55 GMT
#975
On February 27 2015 18:07 Grumbels wrote:
So has it been the case that every time there was a suspicious line that the game was won by the player who was betted on?


Yes

On February 27 2015 16:45 Cascade wrote:
Wow, and it continues! Is pinnacle doing anything at all about this? Like investigating the accounts, tracking down the actual people, police, etc? Does pinnacle consider this an acceptable state of sc2 betting?


As of last I heard the match is still ungraded which means they're investigating

They've offered to share info with Kespa/Blizzard if they investigate but Pinnacle is a caribbean-based sportsbetting company they're not the police and don't have any authority over esports

Swoopae
Profile Joined January 2015
Australia339 Posts
February 27 2015 21:57 GMT
#976
On February 27 2015 22:56 StarGalaxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2015 16:55 ZAiNs wrote:
On February 27 2015 11:02 Swoopae wrote:
Again, there is no conclusive proof of match fixing but there IS conclusive proof that something suspicious happened again, and this is the fourth time (three suspicious line movements leading to betting lines being taken down in Korean matches, two of which were on Game 1 of a series and the third of which was in a best of 1 proleague match, and the olimoley sponsors stream delay with observers for betting etc which is a seperate issue)

It's a fact that something shady is going on. Exactly what that is is not up to me to determine.

The part that confuses me is why the betters would make it so blatantly obvious to the point that the line automatically gets shut down, especially after it already happened with San vs Dark.


Well i think you can compare it to map hackers. In the cases the opponent hides it well you never even think about that he could be maphacking.
At this point I think it might be possible that there are quite a number of match fixed games. I heard from several professional betters that they lost a lot of money recently. It's difficult to detect if the match fixers hide it well and don't get too greedy. There are always movements on the lines. I saw some medium sized movements myself.


For what it's worth i've had my worst month ever betting esports in around two years of betting, that alone doesn't mean anything but almost all of the usually profitable esports bettors and handicappers I know have been getting crushed lately. I didn't have a bet on the match in question this time although I did on both of the two matches that were found suspicious previously (once on the winning side and once on the losing side, but before the insane betting action that skewed the odds both times)
Swoopae
Profile Joined January 2015
Australia339 Posts
February 27 2015 22:03 GMT
#977
Seriously why is there not more attention being brought to this? I even PM'd a TL mod. Does matchfixing only get attention when barrages of claims are made on twitter? I've send Kespa the relevant information twice now and received no reply.

Does the esports community really not care that match fixing is probably going on at the highest level? I'm so disappointed. All I want to see is a proper investigation into the matter.

Another possibility is that the major Kespa streams are slightly delayed and we don't know about it, similar to the Olimoley observer scandal, but I really doubt that's the case with major leagues. Can someone confirm that isn't the case? Because if it isn't, then it's very highly likely that players are involved in match fixing and it would be fairly simple to prove with a basic investigation by Kespa when the bookmaker in question has agreed to cooperate with an investigation.
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
February 27 2015 22:07 GMT
#978
what is a good way to contact Richard Lewis? you could ask what he's doing with the evidence sent to him regarding the stream delays. It would be a start.

the subject has my attention, but I'm betting lots of people are like me, they don't have anything to contribute to the subject. I don't have my own evidence or contacts or anything of the sort.

there's still a big divide between us and Korea, where this is taking place.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
February 27 2015 22:12 GMT
#979
keep up the good work swoopae!
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
February 27 2015 22:33 GMT
#980
On February 28 2015 07:03 Swoopae wrote:
Seriously why is there not more attention being brought to this? I even PM'd a TL mod. Does matchfixing only get attention when barrages of claims are made on twitter? I've send Kespa the relevant information twice now and received no reply.

Does the esports community really not care that match fixing is probably going on at the highest level? I'm so disappointed. All I want to see is a proper investigation into the matter.

Another possibility is that the major Kespa streams are slightly delayed and we don't know about it, similar to the Olimoley observer scandal, but I really doubt that's the case with major leagues. Can someone confirm that isn't the case? Because if it isn't, then it's very highly likely that players are involved in match fixing and it would be fairly simple to prove with a basic investigation by Kespa when the bookmaker in question has agreed to cooperate with an investigation.


Given that it's played before a life studio audience I'd be surprised if there was any sort of delay on the games.
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