EPTOn August 07 2014 10:04 Chuddinater wrote:
TL deleted the thread and just posted it in here.
TL deleted the thread and just posted it in here.
man
KeSPA will not send players to WEC - Page 7
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Official KeSPA statement added to OP | ||
Yhamm
France7248 Posts
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Chuddinater
Korea (South)169 Posts
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Redrot
United States446 Posts
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
But 1, KeSPA had made a policy to not take requests from tournaments in China unless they are recognized by the China General Sports Administration. China General Sports Administration? Seriously? That is the government organization for all sports and sport related activities, the same organization in the US is called President's Council on Fitness, Sports, and Nutrition (PCFSN). They are basically asking for a signature from the White house for an online qualifier. On the other hand, if it is an existing policy in Kespa, All teams/coaches/players should know about it and ask for recognition from kespa before accepting the invitation. But according to Xiaose's post on reddit, WEC made the invitation over a month ago, only SKT1 asked for kespa's permission, but they accepted the invitation so afterwards even before they receive the permission. 2. Also KeSPA will not work with any tournament or organizer that will not go through proper channels and procedures. They decided to try and navigate around us and contacted the players directly. We will not work with an organization that will try to circumvent the procedures we have in place. Directly contacting teams/coaches/players is believed to be normal approach of inviting players. WEC was not planning to navigate around kespa, or circumvent the procedures, but just didn't know there is one. And according to the story, even most kespa teams/coaches/players did't know. Please, Kespa, let your player and the world know more about your policies, especially the important one like "Mama told me not to speak with strangers". 3. I don't really understand why KeSPA keeps being arrogance and show zero respect to a new organization to the scene. And keeps throwing shit towards WEC and makes it look like a shady event. Instead of asking WEC to withdraw the announcement or asking all the Kespa players to reject the invitation, they simply said that WEC pull out a "false list without contacting Kespa and teams". | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
This sentence by Chuddinator is the important sentence. Not the teams decide in Korea, not the players can decide where they want to play, the E-Sport Federation does. Not many people outside Korea ( me neither ) gonna understand how free men have to commit to the Federation unable to choose by their own where they want to play. It is right, the WEC came out of the blue and there have been difficuiltys with events in China, it is okay that the Federation tells these things their players. But just deciding they aren't allowed to play there and make easy money? And then we come back to the Destiny I thing an the sentence above, how dare they to talk with the players, who have no free will? Western and Korean Scene split more and more, while the west still likes to watch SPL and GSL, more and more Koreans flee from these rules into western Teams where they can play where they want. And foreigners just come for training to Korea, but dont want to compete there anymore. Its a shame that this happens, but hey, maybe times gonna change sometimes. And WCA was a bit cleverer then WEC, dont spoil Dollars of their 3,4$ Mio. Dollar Pool for Starcraft II but having the largest WC III Prizepool that has ever been there. | ||
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Starecat
941 Posts
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Chuddinater
Korea (South)169 Posts
On August 07 2014 10:49 CxWiLL wrote: Great response from Kespa, pretty reasonable showed sooooo much responsibility and care for their players. But 1, China General Sports Administration? Seriously? That is the government organization for all sports and sport related activities, the same organization in the US is called President's Council on Fitness, Sports, and Nutrition (PCFSN). They are basically asking for a signature from the White house for an online qualifier. On the other hand, if it is an existing policy in Kespa, All teams/coaches/players should know about it and ask for recognition from kespa before accepting the invitation. But according to Xiaose's post on reddit, WEC made the invitation over a month ago, only SKT1 asked for kespa's permission, but they accepted the invitation so afterwards even before they receive the permission. 2. Directly contacting teams/coaches/players is believed to be normal approach of inviting players. WEC was not planning to navigate around kespa, or circumvent the procedures, but just didn't know there is one. And according to the story, even most kespa teams/coaches/players did't know. Please, Kespa, let your player and the world know more about your policies, especially the important one like "Mama told me not to speak with strangers". 3. I don't really understand why KeSPA keeps being arrogance and show zero respect to a new organization to the scene. And keeps throwing shit towards WEC and makes it look like a shady event. Instead of asking WEC to withdraw the announcement or asking all the Kespa players to reject the invitation, they simply said that WEC pull out a "false list without contacting Kespa and teams". Regarding your second point WEC did know and they did contact us. Teams would have informed any organization like them to contact us. When we asked for documents and asked them to contact the Chinese General Sports Administration they stopped contacting us and did not send us any of the information we had requested from them. When we asked the Chinese General Sports Administration about WEC they replied that they have never heard of them and have never been contacted by them. More so with China then other nations we have very strict protocols because of tournaments in the past. It is very difficult to get money from someone that refuses to pay in China. | ||
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AWalker9
United Kingdom7229 Posts
On August 07 2014 10:51 Clonester wrote: "They decided to try and navigate around us and contacted the players directly. We will not work with an organization that will try to circumvent the procedures we have in place." This is kinda strange since players like Solar always compete in online tournaments and events. | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
Why do teams and players need Kespa's permission to participate in events and can't decide by themselves? That's a different topic. I'm not an expert but I think when you join a Federation you agree with their vision of things and thus obey their rules, getting in exchange benefits like "protection from scams", "enforcement of good conditions" and/or whatever Federations do  | ||
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astray71
United States325 Posts
On August 06 2014 18:00 Seeker wrote: So... If KeSPA players pull out then that leaves only  HerO, San,  TaeJa, INnoVation, Bomber,  HyuN, Revival, Leenock, and Jaedong...HYPE level would die down instantly. I think we all can agree that Taeja will stomp everyone. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On August 07 2014 07:23 alukarD wrote: Ok, maybe a little out of topic but... KesPa is like the Jedi Council? They make all the decisions? According... the best interests... of the Republic? (or Federation). And if teams want their players to play... and the players want to play... but KesPa says NO its lights out? And the reason behind the NO is because... we can? (referring to KesPa) Sorry, just trying to understand. You are thinking as if Kespa is an independent/neutral organisation, which it is supposed to be but not in reality. Proteams are both members and decision makers of Kespa. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On August 07 2014 11:06 silvana wrote: Hmm to me it doesn't look like Kespa is trying to forbid organizations from contacting the teams and players before them, I think they just want to make sure those organizations have Kespa's approval before releasing lineups and making official statements regarding their players. Why do teams and players need Kespa's permission to participate in events and can't decide by themselves? That's a different topic. I'm not an expert but I think when you join a Federation you agree with their vision of things and thus obey their rules, getting in exchange benefits like "protection from scams", "enforcement of good conditions" and/or whatever Federations do yea this whole thing seems to me like someone came along promising the scene a cheap car for sale and then when it turned out the car was stolen everyone got mad at the police for arresting him but thats just my overall impression, i think its silly to assume we know more than the orgs involved... so goofy how the community gets involved in these drama matches when none of us actually know a thing | ||
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Yhamm
France7248 Posts
On August 07 2014 11:06 astray71 wrote: I think we all can agree that Taeja will stomp everyone. the list was updated : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_E-sport_Championships_2014/Korean_Qualifier#Participants | ||
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zxdyn
United States23 Posts
KeSPA had made a policy to not take requests from tournaments in China unless they are recognized by the China General Sports Administration. The China General Sports Administration is a government body running large sports games like 2008 Beijing Olympics or 2013 World Swimming Championships. I don't think any SC2 tournament would be recognized by them. So actually, KeSPA players won't show up in any Chinese SC2 tournament. By the way, is MLG recognized by U.S. Department of Sports or American Sports Federation? in September the KeSPA Cup will be held with all the top KeSPA players and players around the World. Real reason it is. | ||
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Chuddinater
Korea (South)169 Posts
On August 07 2014 11:14 zxdyn wrote: The China General Sports Administration is a government body running large sports games like 2008 Beijing Olympics or 2013 World Swimming Championships. I don't think any SC2 tournament would be recognized by them. So actually, KeSPA players won't show up in any Chinese SC2 tournament. By the way, is MLG recognized by U.S. Department of Sports or American Sports Federation? Real reason it is. The China General Sports Administration has a seperate department that handles e-Sports. They recognize a good amount of tournaments in China. WEC is just not one of them. For example WECG is recognized by them. | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
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zxdyn
United States23 Posts
On August 07 2014 11:17 EngrishTeacher wrote: The fact remains that WEC posted brackets without confirmation, and is the root of all the disappointment. But Kespa hate is fashionable, so I guess the blame is now on Kespa's archaic protectionist player policy, which isn't news anyway. Some blame is on On August 06 2014 19:09 Xoronius wrote: So Kespa is openly lying in their statement? On August 06 2014 17:55 bduddy wrote: Chuddinater, who works for KeSPA, stated that the organizers of WEC had never actually contacted the teams or players in the first place, and had simply released the bracket hoping they would show up. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On August 07 2014 11:14 zxdyn wrote: The China General Sports Administration is a government body running large sports games like 2008 Beijing Olympics or 2013 World Swimming Championships. I don't think any SC2 tournament would be recognized by them. So actually, KeSPA players won't show up in any Chinese SC2 tournament. By the way, is MLG recognized by U.S. Department of Sports or American Sports Federation? Real reason it is. Comparing MLG to WEC is apples to oranges. For one, MLG is a corporation registered in the state of New York, so it has a roster of owners and managers and a business address. They also ran several tournaments successfully with few complaints about accommodations or payment before they started dealing with Kespa, so they have a clear track record showing their ability to put on a good show and attract a large audience even without Korean players. It's also worth noting that it is easy for Korean citizens to enter the US and to leave with their prize money or have it transferred to Korea and converted to won. This organization doesn't have any such thing. It's unclear where they are registered, who their owners and managers are, where their headquarters are located, and where they are getting the money. They have no apparent track record of putting on events or of having to put up players, managers, and guests in accommodations. The question of visas and prize money are also not trivial and the language barrier is huge because most Korean players do not speak Chinese or English. China is much stricter than the US or EU, both in terms of entering the country and capital controls (i.e. leaving with cash). The kinds of things Kespa is looking for don't strike me as unfair or outrageous, especially for a country like China where almost nobody is familiar with their regulatory and legal system. It's one thing for IEM to throw an event in China, where the organization has also proved it knows what it's doing and how to handle things there. It's another to trust a totally unknown group to do it. | ||
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pzlama333
United States282 Posts
He quoted earlier: "There are only a few tournaments recognized by China General Sports Administration every year." | ||
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