EPT
KeSPA will not send players to WEC - Page 9
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nukkuj
Finland403 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On August 07 2014 16:54 nukkuj wrote: lol, it's been quite a while since last Kespa drama. It'll be interesting to see what will actually happen. I kinda hope players will still attend and we get a kickass tournament! how is this drama? sketchy tournament can't prove that they're going to pay out prize money so the kespa players aren't going to waste their time going to the event. | ||
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gdsyzz
United Kingdom5 Posts
On August 07 2014 16:57 Dodgin wrote: how is this drama? sketchy tournament can't prove that they're going to pay out prize money so the kespa players aren't going to waste their time going to the event. the tournament is approved by Blizzard and NetEase, which is the Chinese agency of Blizzard game. If KeSPA dont believe Blizzard, I have nothing to say. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On August 07 2014 20:03 gdsyzz wrote: the tournament is approved by Blizzard and NetEase, which is the Chinese agency of Blizzard game. If KeSPA dont believe Blizzard, I have nothing to say. On August 07 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote: IPL5 didn't pay people for months, it's reasonable to approach tournaments you're not organizing yourself with some skepticism. A lot of organizers in esports have trouble actually going through with their promises, I don't think you should just up and trust WEC because they're approved by anyone. | ||
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gdsyzz
United Kingdom5 Posts
Actually, the situation in China is different. Only a few tournament held by the national association has the "official" authorization from the National General Sports Administration. Most of the tournament dont have and never want to get the approval from the national governing body. D8TV is a company resgisted in Shanghai and the WEC mainly held for Heart of Stone and Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2 being selected to the tournament only because Blizzard and NetEase ask them to do so. Xiaose has posted some information today in the Chinese forum. He said " we contact the player and their team directly first. For example, during IEM Shenzhen, we asked Stork to join and he said " no problem". Both the player and their team are admitted to compete WEC. Meanwhile, we also ask whether they need the permission from KeSPA, most of the team, except SAMSUNG and SKT1, said they can decided by themselves. Even SKT1 said they will not send player to the game in the first place, however, after few days, they said " YES" to us. They main conflict between me and the staff from KeSPA is that he said we made "fake" list and we haven't contact anyone. If KeSPA dont want to send player, please dont accuse us like we lied to everyone. We would happy to change the roster if they asked. The statement made by KeSPA just want to get rid of the responsibility and only want to tell everyone what we say was fake. After all, I think we still get best player no matter KeSPA want to send their player or not. " | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
This is not a wording issue, the stuff he said was blatantly wrong. | ||
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kc2siq
United States319 Posts
I mean... saying WEC never contacted anyone and then admitting WEC did contact people when the caster guy claims to have proof. That seems to imply the kespa rep responded initially without approval or full information. If that's the case then I'm not sure if the follow up statements are reliable without the other side replying. The concerns cited by KESPA are legit though. EDIT: Guess I need to wait and see when the dust clears. =] | ||
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gdsyzz
United Kingdom5 Posts
On August 07 2014 20:50 kc2siq wrote: Did the kespa rep initially lie or did he just not know and there was miscommunication? I mean... saying WEC never contacted anyone and then admitting WEC did contact people when the caster guy claims to have proof. That seems to imply the kespa rep responded initially without approval or full information. If that's the case then I'm not sure if the follow up statements are reliable without the other side replying. The concerns cited by KESPA are legit though. EDIT: Guess I need to wait and see when the dust clears. =] the news of IEM Shenzhen in Chinese website, s.163.com, shows some evidence. The interview done by the NetEase guy contains the information about the invitation of WEC to Stork, innovation, and Hero, and the interviewers all said they are willing to come. 前面我们说到HerO因为比赛奖金而两眼发光，同样的事发生在总司令身上却变成了另一种态度。在听我说完比赛的奖金、赛程详细后，Stork并没有被巨额奖金所动，而是淡定的从裤子口袋里掏出了大屏三星手机，划开日历，仔细询问我比赛的日程，高下立判、安排档期总司令有木有？ "I tell Stork the tournament like I told to Hero. After I introduce the prize pool and some details of the tournament, Stork was not surprised by the huge prize pool. He just take out his phone and check his schedule. After that, he ask me the detail schedule of the tournament." | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
They lied all the time.. they are like FIFA.. they want the control, no matter what, they want to be above the teams, the players, the organizers and even the owners of the game! | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On August 07 2014 21:19 shell wrote: Kespa lied, i don't see why anyone would be suprised by that. They lied all the time.. they are like FIFA.. they want the control, no matter what, they want to be above the teams, the players, the organizers and even the owners of the game! They ARE the teams though. Kespa is made by the representatives of teams and sponsors. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
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Yiome
China1687 Posts
What do they know about e-sports... they can't even organize a football team  But do sounds like something Kespa would trust, because they are similar enough in some aspect Guess we can all wait till this tournament is over and find out | ||
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MrWatermelon
Norway15 Posts
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luckybeni2
Germany1065 Posts
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Cazimirbzh
334 Posts
Do you known there is only 23 countries in IeSF...  and SouthKorea is the only country trying to help esport worldwideIf KeSPA dont believe Blizzard, I have nothing to say. They hate each other since gomtv revival......In Xiaose's statement, Meanwhile, we also ask whether they need the permission from KeSPA, most of the team, except SAMSUNG and SKT1, said they can decided by themselves. seems really weird since Kespa = teams and also kespa > teams If KeSPA dont want to send player, please dont accuse us like we lied to everyone. ^^ they posted a roster before all agreement/concern where settle. That was a lie and a deal breaker of trust, end of story. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On August 07 2014 14:55 Jerubaal wrote: These are esports tournaments, not financial markets. They don't need regulation. To most people here, Kespa seems to serve little purpose other than its own furtherance. Especially considering how they tried to squash SC2 in its infancy, then try to muscle out GOM and unaffiliated players and then appointed themselves esports czars. About KeSPA trying to sabotage SC2 - Blizzard tried to kill off BW and they tried to bully KeSPA just before SC2 was released. When Blizzard was like "switch to SC2 or pay money to broadcast BW", KeSPA reacted in kind. The whole KeSPA vs SC2 thing was mainly due to Blizzard. Blizzard tried to bully KeSPA Into switching to SC2 (they didn't want to switch since BW was still popular) and then bully KeSPA into paying for broadcasting fees (which KeSPA eventually did have to do) - So them trying to sabotage SC2 was kind of understandable. The thing with BW, SC2, KeSPA, and Blizzard was that KeSPA was doing BW tournaments for nearly a decade before SC2 came out. Then as soon as SC2 was about to be released, Blizzard demanded payment from KeSPA and claimed that they were infringing copyright and profiting off of their game (which while true - you also have to consider KeSPA promoted their game which way more valuable than this copyright infringement Blizzard claims. BW sold 4-5 million copies in South Korea alone and while you can't attribute it all to KeSPA, you also can't deny that KeSPA helped with that either with the huge viewership numbers KeSPA tournaments brought to BW). Plus what Blizzard asked was kind of silly too. Technically they could do that but it was still silly. Valve didn't go around and say you can't have CS 1.6 tournaments when CS:Source was released (likewise - They didn't go around and say you can't have CS 1.6 or CS:Source tournaments when CS:Global Offensive was released). Capcom didn't go around and say you can't broadcast SF2 tournaments anymore when SF4 was released. And Valve didn't tell Icefrog to stop updating DotA on WC3 (DotA still gets updated on WC3 as, actually they even come before, Dota 2 updates are released) which is actually a huge deal too (hey if people still play DotA on WC3 - That means they can't buy cosmetics in Dota 2 - therefore less profit - Since Icefrog works for Valve now, Valve can just tell Icefrog to stop updating DotA on WC3 right? Nope, in fact Valve supports Icefrog with keeping DotA on WC3 up to date - If they like the game enough, they'll just switch over to Dota 2 when the time is right - Unlike Blizzard who is like "nope, you guys are going to switch to SC2 right now or we are going to sue you for broadcasting these BW tournaments without our authorization"). There are a lot of silliess with KeSPA but at least with KeSPA and SC2 (and Blizzard), I have to side with KeSPA on this one since Blizzard was the one who bullied KeSPA (they saw BW was a huge thing in South Korea - Wanted KeSPA to cooperate with them and do the same with SC2, then when they said no, they tried to bully them and shut down BW altogether). Of course there is a lot of legit silliness with KeSPA (like the whole KeSPA players aren't allowed to participate in Code S after they switched over and it took eSF players not participating in OSL to convince KeSPA otherwise) but at least with KeSPA and SC2 (and Blizzard), I have to side with KeSPA on that one. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On August 07 2014 21:56 Ammanas wrote: They ARE the teams though. Kespa is made by the representatives of teams and sponsors. Tell me that all of the managers of the teams got together and they all didn't want to participate. Because I seriously doubt that's what happened. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:19 Goldfish wrote: About KeSPA trying to sabotage SC2 - Blizzard tried to kill off BW and they tried to bully KeSPA just before SC2 was released. When Blizzard was like "switch to SC2 or pay money to broadcast BW", KeSPA reacted in kind. The whole KeSPA vs SC2 thing was mainly due to Blizzard. Blizzard tried to bully KeSPA Into switching to SC2 (they didn't want to switch since BW was still popular) and then bully KeSPA into paying for broadcasting fees (which KeSPA eventually did have to do) - So them trying to sabotage SC2 was kind of understandable. The thing with BW, SC2, KeSPA, and Blizzard was that KeSPA was doing BW tournaments for nearly a decade before SC2 came out. Then as soon as SC2 was about to be released, Blizzard demanded payment from KeSPA and claimed that they were infringing copyright and profiting off of their game (which while true - you also have to consider KeSPA promoted their game which way more valuable than this "copyright infringement" Blizzard claims. BW sold 4-5 million copies in South Korea alone and while you can't attribute it all to KeSPA, you also can't deny that KeSPA helped with that either with the huge viewership numbers KeSPA tournaments brought to BW). Plus what Blizzard asked was kind of silly too. Technically they could do that but it was still in bad taste. Valve didn't go around and say you can't have CS 1.6 tournaments when CS:Source was released (likewise - They didn't go around and say you can't have CS 1.6 or CS:Source tournaments when CS:Global Offensive was released). Capcom didn't go around and say you can't broadcast SF2 tournaments anymore when SF4 was released. And Valve didn't tell Icefrog to stop updating DotA on WC3 (DotA still gets updated on WC3 as, actually they even come before, Dota 2 updates are released) which is actually a huge deal too (hey if people still play DotA on WC3 - That means they can't buy cosmetics in Dota 2 - therefore less profit - Since Icefrog works for Valve now, Valve can just tell Icefrog to stop updating DotA on WC3 right? Nope, in fact Valve supports Icefrog with keeping DotA on WC3 up to date - If they like the game enough, they'll just switch over to Dota 2 when the time is right - Unlike Blizzard who is like "nope, you guys are going to switch to SC2 right now or we are going to sue you for broadcasting these BW tournaments without our authorization"). There are a lot of silliess with KeSPA but at least with KeSPA and SC2 (and Blizzard), I have to side with KeSPA on this one since Blizzard was the one who bullied KeSPA (they saw BW was a huge thing in South Korea - Wanted KeSPA to cooperate with them and do the same with SC2, then when they said no, they tried to bully them and shut down BW altogether). Of course there is a lot of legit silliness with KeSPA (like the whole KeSPA players aren't allowed to participate in Code S after they switched over and it took eSF players not participating in OSL to convince KeSPA otherwise) but at least with KeSPA and SC2 (and Blizzard), I have to side with KeSPA on that one. So you're saying the owners of the game who want control are wrong and the mobsters who manipulate the government for their own end are right. Hokay. And Dota 1 was irrelevant to esports 3 years ago so that's not a good example. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:37 Jerubaal wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2014 03:19 Goldfish wrote: About KeSPA trying to sabotage SC2 - Blizzard tried to kill off BW and they tried to bully KeSPA just before SC2 was released. When Blizzard was like "switch to SC2 or pay money to broadcast BW", KeSPA reacted in kind. The whole KeSPA vs SC2 thing was mainly due to Blizzard. Blizzard tried to bully KeSPA Into switching to SC2 (they didn't want to switch since BW was still popular) and then bully KeSPA into paying for broadcasting fees (which KeSPA eventually did have to do) - So them trying to sabotage SC2 was kind of understandable. The thing with BW, SC2, KeSPA, and Blizzard was that KeSPA was doing BW tournaments for nearly a decade before SC2 came out. Then as soon as SC2 was about to be released, Blizzard demanded payment from KeSPA and claimed that they were infringing copyright and profiting off of their game (which while true - you also have to consider KeSPA promoted their game which way more valuable than this "copyright infringement" Blizzard claims. BW sold 4-5 million copies in South Korea alone and while you can't attribute it all to KeSPA, you also can't deny that KeSPA helped with that either with the huge viewership numbers KeSPA tournaments brought to BW). Plus what Blizzard asked was kind of silly too. Technically they could do that but it was still in bad taste. Valve didn't go around and say you can't have CS 1.6 tournaments when CS:Source was released (likewise - They didn't go around and say you can't have CS 1.6 or CS:Source tournaments when CS:Global Offensive was released). Capcom didn't go around and say you can't broadcast SF2 tournaments anymore when SF4 was released. And Valve didn't tell Icefrog to stop updating DotA on WC3 (DotA still gets updated on WC3 as, actually they even come before, Dota 2 updates are released) which is actually a huge deal too (hey if people still play DotA on WC3 - That means they can't buy cosmetics in Dota 2 - therefore less profit - Since Icefrog works for Valve now, Valve can just tell Icefrog to stop updating DotA on WC3 right? Nope, in fact Valve supports Icefrog with keeping DotA on WC3 up to date - If they like the game enough, they'll just switch over to Dota 2 when the time is right - Unlike Blizzard who is like "nope, you guys are going to switch to SC2 right now or we are going to sue you for broadcasting these BW tournaments without our authorization"). There are a lot of silliess with KeSPA but at least with KeSPA and SC2 (and Blizzard), I have to side with KeSPA on this one since Blizzard was the one who bullied KeSPA (they saw BW was a huge thing in South Korea - Wanted KeSPA to cooperate with them and do the same with SC2, then when they said no, they tried to bully them and shut down BW altogether). Of course there is a lot of legit silliness with KeSPA (like the whole KeSPA players aren't allowed to participate in Code S after they switched over and it took eSF players not participating in OSL to convince KeSPA otherwise) but at least with KeSPA and SC2 (and Blizzard), I have to side with KeSPA on that one. So you're saying the owners of the game who want control are wrong and the mobsters who manipulate the government for their own end are right. Hokay. And Dota 1 was irrelevant to esports 3 years ago so that's not a good example. Rofl, if you hadn't watched it, it doesn't mean that dota wasn't relevant as esport, noone played it and noone knew about it. | ||
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