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On April 16 2014 02:19 JamazVu wrote:
My goal was to get into Masters last season I couldnt and I was doing acceptable/good for diamond...I was top8-15 most of the time, I took a free week during season lock, came back to this new season(yesterday) and.... DEMOTED to platinum? wtf, I played few games(some games vs GOLD players wtf) but I was so demotivated that the last game I just alt-f4(because of so many mistakes) and dont think im gonna come back again(till something magical happens), thank you so much Blizzard.
you quit a game because of standings? shiny colors mean that much to you? i was not gm last season but i still got masters after my placement match. im not trying to brag either, ive been demoted many times, and i always realize its when im playing bad and losing to people i should be. even if you are playing golds/platinums, what makes you think they are not in the same boat as you? in that they believe that they are dia/masters players themselves, and their skill level is actually quite similar to yours..
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On April 16 2014 02:43 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 01:20 Plansix wrote:On April 16 2014 00:04 NKexquisite wrote:
So much crying about being demoted...
If you think you deserve to be in a higher league, play some damn ladder games and prove it... Kinda with you on this. The ranking has as much meaning as you are willing to give it. Getting demoted only means you have a quick level up early this season. Or you are now in the league you belong in. if you played some Hots you know about mmr decay and how it sucks to have to crush ppl 20 times in a row before meeting players of your caliber. and it sucks for the lower league guys who get stomped too.
Gotta agree with this sentiment. In WoL 4v4 I was top8 Masters (single queue) for 6 seasons then stopped playing for like 8 months. When I came back I was stuck in bronze. I played 10 games facerolling opponents and I'm still in bronze. In the team games its extra bad because not only do team games take longer in general but also I am pretty much wasting 7 other people's time. I mean my APM is consistently double to triple that of the other players, theres no reason I should have fallen all the way down to bronze...
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yeah. demoted to masters. oh w8.
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On April 16 2014 03:31 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest.
Anecdotal evidence of the sheer number of people being demoted, only to shortly be promoted back in 5 games or less suggest that MMR and league you are placed in after the first placement game is no longer true. Also, Blizzard waits till MMR is stabilised, meaning that normally it is impossible to bounce between leagues, also meaning that it is possible for your MMR to be at a different league, and that the leagues appear to have a lot of overlap depending on what division you are in (don't ask my why Blizzard does this). Yeah, so the league you are placed in has never accurately reflected MMR, and the strange demotion mechanic that Blizzard has going on makes it even worse.
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On April 16 2014 03:44 Shousan wrote:
After giving it some thought, I still think it's not a big deal at all because they got rid of demotions mid season. Meaning that by the end of last season, they were many many players in a league "above" their actual level, so if you're a top player on your league and got demoted, you'll be facing mostly these other players, making it relatively easy to get promoted again (like some players mentioned in this thread, between 5-15 games to get back) but if you're not a top player on your league and got demoted, then that's just your new level, it might feel demoralizing, but it shouldn't. People will always trick themselves into thinking they're better than what they actually are (not just in SC2, this holds true in everything), and that's why this system feels "unfair" and lead to not wanting to play, but just because it gives you a reality check on how your play and others changed throughout 3 months doesn't mean it's not accurate. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter, just forget about your avatar border and focus on having fun. This is a game, people. Enjoy it.
What you quoted of me was my general view of how I see other players handling the situation. I personally have gotten back to my normal league, and with working all the time, I couldn't care less that I am not in a higher division. The game is hard enough as it is, why would I want to struggle more than I already do, just for the sake of a higher division?
I don't really understand why people become so obsessed with getting into diamond, master, etc. Maybe that is just my general nature though, who knows xD. I still think it's frustrating to get demoted at the beginning of the season, I think that's bad business as I can see some people leaving the ladder system. People are going to quit the game anyhow. Almost all games in the market now have players leaving all the time, so it really isn't that big of a deal. Just something to bitch about I suppose.
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The same arguments were made for getting demoted mid season. People said they didn't play because they feared losing and getting demoted.
At the end of the day, there is nothing Blizzard can do for people who are afraid of getting demoted or who get upst when it happens. If they showed you your MMR like in dota, it just wouldn't move because MMR doesn't change that much. But then people would complain about having no sense of advancement.
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Just got back into diamond after less than 10 games. Just play people, stop crying.
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i see some ppl say its the mmr decay.. yeh i had 700 games last season! hell yeah its the mmr decay
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and played 40 games, stil dia!
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On April 16 2014 05:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 03:31 korona wrote:On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest. Anecdotal evidence of the sheer number of people being demoted, only to shortly be promoted back in 5 games or less suggest that MMR and league you are placed in after the first placement game is no longer true. Also, Blizzard waits till MMR is stabilised, meaning that normally it is impossible to bounce between leagues, also meaning that it is possible for your MMR to be at a different league, and that the leagues appear to have a lot of overlap depending on what division you are in (don't ask my why Blizzard does this). Yeah, so the league you are placed in has never accurately reflected MMR, and the strange demotion mechanic that Blizzard has going on makes it even worse.
Incorrect. After the placement match you are placed in a league that reflects your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts that start from blank MMR are exceptions to this rule as they are placed conservatively). Also you might not know that I have been the main developer of the MMR tool for more than a year. I do have access to plenty of hard data to back up what I am saying.
And regarding promotions after the placement match: During the WoL era Blizzard clearly used some kind of MMR moving average regarding the promotions (stabilization period, exact formulas have never been revealed). But after HotS was released the character accounts have been promoted pretty much immediately when they cross the thresholds. But also during the WoL era it was possible to get immediately promoted one match after the placement match if you crossed the threshold.
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I'm well beyond my Masters WoL glory days. Got demoted to Gold from Plat (damn PvT), got back to plat after 5 games. Go figure...
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Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair
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On April 15 2014 23:36 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:20 kaluro wrote:
What happened is:
At the start of the previous season the MMR treshold to get a masters promotion was 1320 MMR.
At the start of the current season, the MMR tresold to get a masters promotion is 1520 MMR, which used to be mid masters.
The offsets changed few days after last season started. Those numbers are not directly comparable. Actually the relative master threshold remained the same, but everything else was lowered. The current diamond range begins relatively from old high gold range. Diamond league's MMR range almost doubled. But the decay still pushes general population downwards... It is interesting to see if Blizzard does another 'smoke and mirrors fix' in the future (they only changed offsets/thresholds, not fixed the causes for the problem) .
This is correct, but it also means that people who started playing last season, got into masters where they otherwise would've gotten into diamond. Since there are no mid season demotions, they got into diamond this season.
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On April 16 2014 05:41 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:36 korona wrote:
The offsets changed few days after last season started. Those numbers are not directly comparable. Actually the relative master threshold remained the same, but everything else was lowered. The current diamond range begins relatively from old high gold range. Diamond league's MMR range almost doubled. But the decay still pushes general population downwards... It is interesting to see if Blizzard does another 'smoke and mirrors fix' in the future (they only changed offsets/thresholds, not fixed the causes for the problem) . This is correct, but it also means that people who started playing last season, got into masters where they otherwise would've gotten into diamond. Since there are no mid season demotions, they got into diamond this season.
There was no relative change to the master threshold (no increase regarding master promotions). People who were in high diamond MMR range before the offset change remained in high diamond range. But people who were upwards from high gold (near old gold-plat threshold) were promoted to diamond. The diamond range increased considerably.
The numbers set in the MMR tool are not directly comparable. The old 1360 master threshold is relatively the same as current 1515 master threshold.
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yeah, ladder is surely harder now. I havent got master player for games and earlier it was rarety to get diamond.
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i was gm sunday and got demoted to masters on monday guys. I can relate.
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On April 16 2014 05:37 Chocolate wrote:
Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair
A high diamond today is probably better than a high master 10 months ago.
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Northern Ireland27460 Posts
...'because the whole league placement system is a psychological marketing trick to play on people's egos'
Not sure if this was a serious or tongue-in-cheek point but I do feel the ladder system is flawed as fuck, with its overinflation of masters, then pulling it back with the MMR decay, removing demotions, at one point removing the losses displayed etc.
Leagues are to me a big contributor to the infamous ladder anxiety, not any kind of mitigating factor. Personally I'd rather see a return to something similar to the WC3 system, with a cumulative level that you have to be active to prevent decaying, allied to an actual visible indicator of your MMR with little to no decay within short periods of time.
I'm not particularly good atm not going to lie. but myself and other people who are snowed under with the trials and tribulations of the world outside of Starcraft atm struggle to know where we actually are currently at skill wise.
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I was 72-16 on EU WoL and also about 71-15 on NA WoL, one placement match that I lost due to cheese and... diamond league. The ladder is once again random.
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EPT
