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On April 16 2014 01:56 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 00:32 Ctone23 wrote:On April 15 2014 23:20 BisuDagger wrote:
I guess I need to wait for all you pros to go up a few leagues before I start laddering. Didn't figure you to be a SC2 kind of guy. I've been supporting sc2 since the first gsl. Bought a year pass in 2011. Stopped paying for sc2 when blizzard ruined wings in 2012. I'd be more active with proleague if it didn't run during my work hours! I miss 2-3 am SPL! So while I still follow all sc2 I dedicate energy to sc1. But my goal is to ladder in both sc1 and 2 start of May xD. I really want sc2 to be a great game and still grasp to some hope for LotV.
Oh that's cool. Good luck to you then!
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On April 16 2014 02:03 ReMinD_ wrote:
Why do people care so much about league placement?
For the same reason that people whine about their MMR in dota 2, people hate being told they might not be as good at they througt they were. In some ways, the number after the game is more important than the game itself, to them.
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My goal was to get into Masters last season I couldnt and I was doing acceptable/good for diamond...I was top8-15 most of the time, I took a free week during season lock, came back to this new season(yesterday) and.... DEMOTED to platinum? wtf, I played few games(some games vs GOLD players wtf) but I was so demotivated that the last game I just alt-f4(because of so many mistakes) and dont think im gonna come back again(till something magical happens), thank you so much Blizzard.
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Canada13426 Posts
On April 16 2014 02:19 JamazVu wrote:
My goal was to get into Masters last season I couldnt and I was doing acceptable/good for diamond...I was top8-15 most of the time, I took a free week during season lock, came back to this new season(yesterday) and.... DEMOTED to platinum? wtf, I played few games(some games vs GOLD players wtf) but I was so demotivated that the last game I just alt-f4(because of so many mistakes) and dont think im gonna come back again(till something magical happens), thank you so much Blizzard.
if yuo had to alt f4 because of so many mistakes vs gold players, then its not blizzard at fault, its your play.
We need more mid season demotions so that people who should be demoted mid season dont just complain at the end of the season. You were probably playing with other people who should have been demoted to plat or something and werent yet, so you didnt know you were playing at plat level.
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^Yeah it's Blizzards fault you aren't good enough to stay in diamond.
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On April 16 2014 01:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 00:04 NKexquisite wrote:
So much crying about being demoted...
If you think you deserve to be in a higher league, play some damn ladder games and prove it... Kinda with you on this. The ranking has as much meaning as you are willing to give it. Getting demoted only means you have a quick level up early this season. Or you are now in the league you belong in.
if you played some Hots you know about mmr decay and how it sucks to have to crush ppl 20 times in a row before meeting players of your caliber.
and it sucks for the lower league guys who get stomped too.
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On April 15 2014 23:46 Ahli wrote:
Also, I assume you have a higher chance in being promoted to a higher league that you wouldn't normally reach with that system. So, people that are "stuck" in their league forever might be able to enter the higher league in one season with a lot of luck & playing a lot early season before the normally higher, but demoted guys re-enter their skill-level leagues. But that's just speculation on my side.
I wouldn't assume that. Even though you can't get demoted mid-season, your MMR will go down as the result of losses. To get promoted up another league, you would need to raise your MMR sufficiently so that you would either not be in danger of a mid-season demotion or you would simply get re-promoted to your previous league after a mid-season demotion. For example, lets say a Gold league player had a bad slump and his MMR drops low enough that he probably should be dropped to Silver. He won't get promoted to Plat until his MMR rises high enough that he would be at Gold league level. Being prevented from dropping to Silver doesn't make it more likely for that player to work his way up to Plat.
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Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR.
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yea i dont know whats up i had a 90%w/r in tvt 70 in tvz and 65 in tvp in diamond playing masters and and won placement vs masters still diamond. also my offrace account was playing diamonds and got demoted to gold wtf.
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On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote:
Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR.
I think it's more of the cycle that the players are going through each season. Lets say they start in Gold, play hard and get a promotion to plat, and end the season in top 8 Platinum. The next season starts... back in Gold again.
It really boils down to how much stock you put into what your league is. Some people don't mind, and prefer to play vs weaker opponents, as you said, for the mmr help, but others view it as demoralizing, and some even state they lose desire to play. My experience was that it took about 4-5 games to get promoted back to my league, so hopefully people will get over the disappointment and just ladder.
Simply put, you can't please everyone.
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On April 16 2014 02:22 Faust852 wrote:
^Yeah it's Blizzards fault you aren't good enough to stay in diamond.
Actually in many cases it sort of is. There is no skill involved if you are 4 weeks inactive and then Blizzard punishes you with decay that roughly equals 20 losses. MMR decay has messed up the ladder as players MMRs are artificially manipulated (decreased). MMR in many cases is not anymore indicative of skill. This has been a long process as it started already when HotS was released. People who get decayed often do not play enough to compensate the decay. And then decay even more. Their skill does not deteriorate in same pace. As a result there are wildly different skilled players in lower leagues . And the general MMR levels keep steadily decreasing.
For example if you win 19 matches a row (19w-0l) and then go inactive for 4 weeks. As a result your MMR did not increase but the opposite. In typical case it slightly decreased as those 19 straight wins were not enough to compensate max decay that roughly equals 20 loses. 20 straight loses usually drop your MMR more than one league range (exception MMR ranges of both diamond and master are larger).
On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote:
Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR.
People activate in the beginning of each season. If you have faced decay you can be sure that you will be matched against others who have faced decay too. Blizzard's aim was that you would be matched against clearly weaker opponents to get easier wins. But if you are facing lots of other decayed players who are at similar skill level or even better than you, you will not necessarily win that much. With a 60% winrate it would take roughly 100 matches (60w-40l) to get back to your pre-decay MMR. Many do not even play that many matches in a season.
Of course if you skill-wise belong to top echelon of players it is easier to get up. There were less equally skilled or better players to begin with. Thus it is not so hard to keep high winrate when grinding back up. Yes grinding - It takes lots of matches for MMR to rise unless you have a fresh account.
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It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR.
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On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR.
No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest.
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From master to diamond once again ahahaahah !
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@korona, it's kind of the player fault not playing enough and getting demoted then, If you are aware if the MMR decay, try to play at least every 2 weeks. If you don't play at all, don't cry because you have to win 20 times to get where you were before, 20 wins is nothing, it's achievable in one day if you are decided to and it also meant you weren't that good in the said league if it take only 20 loss to get demoted too.
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I got demoted. Not a big deal. Was kinda expecting it. I am already playing people in my old league again so I should be back quickly.
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On April 16 2014 03:33 Faust852 wrote:
@korona, it's kind of the player fault not playing enough and getting demoted then, If you are aware if the MMR decay, try to play at least every 2 weeks. If you don't play at all, don't cry because you have to win 20 times to get where you were before, 20 wins is nothing, it's achievable in one day if you are decided to and it also meant you weren't that good in the said league if it take only 20 loss to get demoted too.
Remember also that most of the player base likely does not know about MMR decay or how to prevent it. TL:s are amongst the minority and even in this thread many seem not to understand. And it is not winning 20 games. It is winning 20 games more than losing.
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I can understand both sides of the spectrum.
Many players enjoy seeing growth in their play - which is only tangibly revealed through League and Rank. When for no apparent reason they are demoted, its demoralizing. I dropped from high Diamond to GOLD, and I played actively (~300 games). Now I have to waste my time playing scrubs to get back to where I was less than two days ago. It's frustrating.
But I can see why people are annoyed by the whine. I guess the solution is playing more and proving I am that skill level, but when I run into people with the same problem in Plat who are also Diamond and sometimes Master, and I lose to a shitty all-in, it ruins my MMR and gets me stuck.
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On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote:
Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR.
The problem is that you have the same MMR that you did before the new season started. So you're playing against the same caliber of players that you were at the end of the previous season.
And if your MMR was toward the lower range of your league and you got demoted to start the season, the other players who were close to your MMR probably suffered the same fate. It might look like you're playing weaker opponents, but it's probably not the case.
The only time you're likely to actually be playing weaker opponents is if you had a long enough period of inactivity at the end of last season that your MMR decayed. But that can happen in the middle of the season as well, and isn't based on your league.
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On April 16 2014 03:18 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote:
Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR. I think it's more of the cycle that the players are going through each season. Lets say they start in Gold, play hard and get a promotion to plat, and end the season in top 8 Platinum. The next season starts... back in Gold again. It really boils down to how much stock you put into what your league is. Some people don't mind, and prefer to play vs weaker opponents, as you said, for the mmr help, but others view it as demoralizing, and some even state they lose desire to play. My experience was that it took about 4-5 games to get promoted back to my league, so hopefully people will get over the disappointment and just ladder. Simply put, you can't please everyone.
On April 16 2014 03:21 korona wrote:
People activate in the beginning of each season. If you have faced decay you can be sure that you will be matched against others who have faced decay too. Blizzard's aim was that you would be matched against clearly weaker opponents to get easier wins. But if you are facing lots of other decayed players who are at similar skill level or even better than you, you will not necessarily win that much. With a 60% winrate it would take roughly 100 matches (60w-40l) to get back to your pre-decay MMR. Many do not even play that many matches in a season.
Of course if you skill-wise belong to top echelon of players it is easier to get up. There were less equally skilled or better players to begin with. Thus it is not so hard to keep high winrate when grinding back up. Yes grinding - It takes lots of matches for MMR to rise unless you have a fresh account.
I see what you guys mean, on one hand, the fact that you've worked hard to get promoted during last season only to get back by next season could be demoralizing, and also, you'll be facing many players in a similar scenario due to demotions instead of weaker players, so it's not a considerable boost on MMR either.
After giving it some thought, I still think it's not a big deal at all because they got rid of demotions mid season. Meaning that by the end of last season, they were many many players in a league "above" their actual level, so if you're a top player on your league and got demoted, you'll be facing mostly these other players, making it relatively easy to get promoted again (like some players mentioned in this thread, between 5-15 games to get back) but if you're not a top player on your league and got demoted, then that's just your new level, it might feel demoralizing, but it shouldn't. People will always trick themselves into thinking they're better than what they actually are (not just in SC2, this holds true in everything), and that's why this system feels "unfair" and lead to not wanting to play, but just because it gives you a reality check on how your play and others changed throughout 3 months doesn't mean it's not accurate. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter, just forget about your avatar border and focus on having fun. This is a game, people. Enjoy it.
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EPT
