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United States12257 Posts
On April 27 2014 08:18 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 06:04 korona wrote:On April 27 2014 05:20 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 25 2014 03:40 SatedSC2 wrote:
Is there an approximate amount of games you need to play before the game decides, "Oh, he's winning 5 games for every 1 he loses, perhaps I should put him against better players..?"
My NA account decayed into low Diamond or something like that, and I'm currently 14-3 trying to get it back into Masters. I don't think it should be in Masters yet since I am still playing Diamond players (albeit high Diamond players now), but it's kinda annoying that the MMR system will decay you so hard and force you to put so much time in to get the decay back. I'd rather not have decay; if people don't play and want to come back then Unranked can help them get in shape =/
EDIT:
20-3 Now. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- So I now have a 75% win-rate with ~50 games played (all those games against Diamond players, with a few Masters thrown in) and it still insists that I am "evenly matched" with mid-league Diamond players who have an equal win/loss ratio. Seriously pissing me off right now =/ Ironically, every time I do get against a Masters player, I seem to get cheesed. That much just be karma punishing me for all the cheesy buildings that I use xD Size of the MMR range of diamond is quite big after the changes they made early last season. Estimate for it was 450 in MMR tool scale (from bottom border of diam to bottom border of master). If each match changes your MMR 16 points per average, it would require ~29 straight wins to pass the whole diamond league range. But in practice when you approach the high-end of diamond range, you will start gaining less / losing more. In practice it will likely take little less than 40 straight wins to pass whole diamond range. Now if you have played ~50 games with 75% win-rate you will have something like 38w-12l. From that we get +26 win-loss difference. If you started from the bottom border of diamond then you will still potentially need more than 10 wins more than losses from your future matches. Of course if you were originally placed in platinum you will need more. If you were originally placed in diamond you may have been higher than the bottom and then need less. Please note that these figures are very rough, but in general should give quite good idea what to expect. That's ridiculous. MMR decay needs to be removed and demotion during the season needs to be reinstated. Blizzard had a perfectly fine ladder system and they've ballsed it up. Undeniably so. I just played (and beat) someone who is 59-4 and still in Diamond, which in a sense makes me feel better because that's even worse than my experience, but in a sense pisses me off even more because that's fucking ridiculous.
Now, when you say "59-4 and still in Diamond", how do you know he started off in Diamond?
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Sup Chelsea!
Yeah I noticed this too, but it's alright and makes me more active until I'm masters again actually, lol.
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On April 27 2014 13:15 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 08:18 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 27 2014 06:04 korona wrote:On April 27 2014 05:20 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 25 2014 03:40 SatedSC2 wrote:
Is there an approximate amount of games you need to play before the game decides, "Oh, he's winning 5 games for every 1 he loses, perhaps I should put him against better players..?"
My NA account decayed into low Diamond or something like that, and I'm currently 14-3 trying to get it back into Masters. I don't think it should be in Masters yet since I am still playing Diamond players (albeit high Diamond players now), but it's kinda annoying that the MMR system will decay you so hard and force you to put so much time in to get the decay back. I'd rather not have decay; if people don't play and want to come back then Unranked can help them get in shape =/
EDIT:
20-3 Now. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- So I now have a 75% win-rate with ~50 games played (all those games against Diamond players, with a few Masters thrown in) and it still insists that I am "evenly matched" with mid-league Diamond players who have an equal win/loss ratio. Seriously pissing me off right now =/ Ironically, every time I do get against a Masters player, I seem to get cheesed. That much just be karma punishing me for all the cheesy buildings that I use xD Size of the MMR range of diamond is quite big after the changes they made early last season. Estimate for it was 450 in MMR tool scale (from bottom border of diam to bottom border of master). If each match changes your MMR 16 points per average, it would require ~29 straight wins to pass the whole diamond league range. But in practice when you approach the high-end of diamond range, you will start gaining less / losing more. In practice it will likely take little less than 40 straight wins to pass whole diamond range. Now if you have played ~50 games with 75% win-rate you will have something like 38w-12l. From that we get +26 win-loss difference. If you started from the bottom border of diamond then you will still potentially need more than 10 wins more than losses from your future matches. Of course if you were originally placed in platinum you will need more. If you were originally placed in diamond you may have been higher than the bottom and then need less. Please note that these figures are very rough, but in general should give quite good idea what to expect. That's ridiculous. MMR decay needs to be removed and demotion during the season needs to be reinstated. Blizzard had a perfectly fine ladder system and they've ballsed it up. Undeniably so. I just played (and beat) someone who is 59-4 and still in Diamond, which in a sense makes me feel better because that's even worse than my experience, but in a sense pisses me off even more because that's fucking ridiculous. Now, when you say "59-4 and still in Diamond", how do you know he started off in Diamond?
Yes. That high win-loss difference (+ 55) is enough to pass the whole diamond range and the season is less than 2 weeks old. Thus he has started from lower leagues that are much smaller than diamond. Platinum (unlikely), gold and even silver are possible (even bronze is theoretically possible as he has lost only few games, but very unlikely) (estimates of league sizes and how many straight wins needed with average of 16 points per game: p 235 -> ~15 w, g 290 -> ~19 w, s 260 -> ~17 w. Also in high ranges of each league you will likely win fewer points and lose more, so in practice it requires some wins more).
As the "59-4 diamond" based on description got a high range diamond opponent, then he likely started from gold. But all these speculations are very rough as the only info we have is the win & loss counts
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I went from Plat --> silver this season,
and i thought i played an okay amount of games :[
and I'm actually playing silver skilled people....
so I feel bad
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Are you guys sure its mmr decay? Since there are less people playing each season its harder to get into higher leagues and more demotion happen. Just look at it this way, now you have more reasons to play the game because you can get into a higher league! Now if you are stuck in your league with a 50/50 win ratio or somewhere around there, then maybe you're just not as good as you thought you were?
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On April 27 2014 17:40 phodacbiet wrote:
Are you guys sure its mmr decay? Since there are less people playing each season its harder to get into higher leagues and more demotion happen. Just look at it this way, now you have more reasons to play the game because you can get into a higher league! Now if you are stuck in your league with a 50/50 win ratio or somewhere around there, then maybe you're just not as good as you thought you were?
The amount of players playing placements each season has remained quite steady since last year. No big drops there. The activity on the other hand may have dropped considerably (sites like nios.kr do not register activity). And the less active people are, the more will face decay at some point or be indirectly affected.
Edit: of course you get some stats regarding activity from nios.kr too. Take amounts of players when 2 weeks has passed from the season start (tomorrow). Then check the numbers e.g. from two weeks from now and calculate the difference. The difference tells the amount of accounts that have been inactive for more than 2 weeks. Of course that amount also includes new accounts and accounts that have faced full reset. But it is likely that most are returning players whose MMR is carried over.
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I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond.
I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough...
I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league.
Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio.
Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level 
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Diamonds are forever... ;w;
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On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level
But what part of that 60-5 was after your diamond promotion? Games from gold & platinum do not tell much regarding your current situation. When you got promoted to diamond you knew that at that point your MMR had risen just over the diamond threshold. Thus start counting from that point. From bottom border of diamond it typically takes little less than 40 wins more than losses to get to master (if no decay between those games).
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2100+ masterterran who mostly only gets matched up vs diamonds whines about getting demoted...your MMR was bad from the beginning, now try playing some games without bonuspool and maybe you will stay in master one day
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On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level
That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster.
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On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster.
Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any
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On April 27 2014 22:18 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster. Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any
I believe you. I think it's been a problem for a while. I know last year they increased the range of skill level of the players you could face. Guess it never stuck.
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4s masters to gold league after winning placement. I guess i have been inactive for a month but still... pretty big drop
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On April 27 2014 22:22 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 22:18 Xinzoe wrote:On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster. Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any I believe you. I think it's been a problem for a while. I know last year they increased the range of skill level of the players you could face. Guess it never stuck.
Maybe Blizzard is trying to discourage smurfing by making it tedious to promote many accounts.
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On April 27 2014 22:18 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster. Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any
You are now talking about different thing. With a fresh account starting from blank MMR the placement is conservative (it places you in lower league than your MMR is). Your MMR then changes much much more rapidly than normal. If you only win your MMR may rise very quickly to high master range. But at the 25th match (includes 5 placements) if you win it (you can only be promoted with a win) it will promote you to your actual league at earliest (25th match is the first possibility to get to master league, even if the MMR itself may have been in master range much earlier). Bomber likely had a fresh account and his MMR had risen very quickly to master range. But it did not promote him before the 25th match.
But after your MMR's change rate has normalized, it will take lots of games for it to rise.
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10x ex-master 1v1 Terran player here, I've been getting demoted ever since they implemented the decay, I don't play as much as I used to but my skill doesn't really 'decay' too much(15~ years of sc + I'm a gamer in general).
Last season I was dropped into platinum, I went 20-0 before my first loss to a 6pool in ZvZ where I went expo 1st, I was playing as Random. My point is that even when I offrace, I ROLL through these lower leagues.
I did get some losses once I got promoted to Diamond, but those guys were probably ex-master too, and I still sustained a very good record.
It's retarded, but hey Blizzard is happy!
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Was diamond last season and got demoted to silver.... No idea what's going on here. But it made me really sad.
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EPT
