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On February 06 2014 08:20 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:16 Pandain wrote:On February 06 2014 08:15 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:12 Firkraag8 wrote:On February 06 2014 08:08 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:03 ElMeanYo wrote:On February 06 2014 07:58 Squat wrote:
That man sure knows how to use a lot words without actually saying anything. He should go into politics. Because if you actually go into any specifics when talking to the community, you get burned later. That's what he's paid for. If you don't like the heat, get out of the fucking kitchen. If you are a lead designer on a game like SC2, you have to be ready to catch some flak. At least give us the basic respect of being honest, if your answer is "no we like everything about the game the way it is and will never change forcefields and symmetrical economies and all the other shit people have be berating us about since WoL beta", then fine. At least then we'll know and those who feel that it's a deal breaker can go play Dota or cricket or something instead. I disagree with him on just about every single design decision about the game, but all that is subjective bullshit anyway, there is no right or wrong. Just have enough spine to represent what you actually want for the game. You mean like this?: " We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates." If every answer had been like that, I would have no issue. But please don't try and tell me there isn't at least as much evasive bullshit as straight answers in this little interview. I'd disagree with him on pretty much everything, but that's ok. I really don't think he's as evasive as you think. Or at all. What did you want him to say. Answer the "why" in the deathball question, not the how. Questions about the oracle, raven, swarm host. "we're keeping an eye on things" isn't very reassuring given their track record.
Not a fan of David Kim at all, but here he does answer the questions pretty well. "Do you like the way the swarmhost is used' is answered with his vision on what is good and 'bad' swarmhost usage.
Unfortunately he states he likes most of the things so we can't expect big changes.
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On February 06 2014 08:17 Ammanas wrote:
DId he say anything at all about the economy aspect of the game? Or again not a single soul asked him? (I did, but I was late -.-)
A couple of people did mention the economy. It was not addressed, possibly because it did not have anything to do with the set guidelines for the AMA (although DK did answer a question on deathballs; oh yeah, and FF and WG  ).
However, DB, did (sort of) address it a while ago prior to HOTS release when LaLush raised it:
LaLush: Sometime between October 2007 and October 2008, you decided to introduce better worker AI, shorten the time workers spent at minerals and decrease the yield to 5 minerals per trip. What happened during this time period that prompted you to change workers? What was your reasoning behind the changes? What are your thoughts on the cap on economic growth in your game? Do you guys at Blizzard at all view your artificial 3 base economic cap as an issue, or is it rather considered a non-issue?
Dustin Browder: One of our goals with workers (especially when it comes to the gas changes with 2 geysers) was to make your economy a little bit more expensive and complicated to manage since (at the time) we had a lot of concerns both on the team and in the community that base building was going to be too simple in SC2.
We discussed this some (but I like your insights here) during the beta for Swarm and felt like it was a pretty huge change at this point to alter core economy. We would have had to rebalance the entire game and at that time we were dealing with Oracle, Widowmine, etc. and those changes were absolutely kicking our butts.
I've PMed you the link to the full AMA in case you find it interesting.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On February 06 2014 08:12 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, regarding TvP:
- He expects the current patch to help against blink all-ins (but he's ready to consider more changes)
- Mech is being played against P in Korea (?!?)
Regarding TvZ:
- They are thinking about nerfing ravens.
- They think tank is now very good in the MU.
Jokes on you. Supernova plays mech and he's 33% of Terrans in Korea.
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I just can't believe this guy came from a BW player background... All these fundamental design flaws he either won't admit to, or are just too entrenched in the current game for any hope of them being altered is really depressing.
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On February 06 2014 08:28 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:20 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:16 Pandain wrote:On February 06 2014 08:15 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:12 Firkraag8 wrote:On February 06 2014 08:08 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:03 ElMeanYo wrote:On February 06 2014 07:58 Squat wrote:
That man sure knows how to use a lot words without actually saying anything. He should go into politics. Because if you actually go into any specifics when talking to the community, you get burned later. That's what he's paid for. If you don't like the heat, get out of the fucking kitchen. If you are a lead designer on a game like SC2, you have to be ready to catch some flak. At least give us the basic respect of being honest, if your answer is "no we like everything about the game the way it is and will never change forcefields and symmetrical economies and all the other shit people have be berating us about since WoL beta", then fine. At least then we'll know and those who feel that it's a deal breaker can go play Dota or cricket or something instead. I disagree with him on just about every single design decision about the game, but all that is subjective bullshit anyway, there is no right or wrong. Just have enough spine to represent what you actually want for the game. You mean like this?: " We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates." If every answer had been like that, I would have no issue. But please don't try and tell me there isn't at least as much evasive bullshit as straight answers in this little interview. I'd disagree with him on pretty much everything, but that's ok. I really don't think he's as evasive as you think. Or at all. What did you want him to say. Answer the "why" in the deathball question, not the how. Questions about the oracle, raven, swarm host. "we're keeping an eye on things" isn't very reassuring given their track record. Not a fan of David Kim at all, but here he does answer the questions pretty well. "Do you like the way the swarmhost is used' is answered with his vision on what is good and 'bad' swarmhost usage. Unfortunately he states he likes most of the things so we can't expect big changes.
I find his answers incoherent and often disconnected from the question. It's difficult to discern what he actually thinks because his way of communicating is so confusing and opaque.
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I think all the answers are really good, nice Q&A! I hope they realize zerg anti air in the lategame is indeed a problem, that's why people have to play SH/spore too.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On February 06 2014 08:31 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:28 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On February 06 2014 08:20 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:16 Pandain wrote:On February 06 2014 08:15 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:12 Firkraag8 wrote:On February 06 2014 08:08 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:03 ElMeanYo wrote:On February 06 2014 07:58 Squat wrote:
That man sure knows how to use a lot words without actually saying anything. He should go into politics. Because if you actually go into any specifics when talking to the community, you get burned later. That's what he's paid for. If you don't like the heat, get out of the fucking kitchen. If you are a lead designer on a game like SC2, you have to be ready to catch some flak. At least give us the basic respect of being honest, if your answer is "no we like everything about the game the way it is and will never change forcefields and symmetrical economies and all the other shit people have be berating us about since WoL beta", then fine. At least then we'll know and those who feel that it's a deal breaker can go play Dota or cricket or something instead. I disagree with him on just about every single design decision about the game, but all that is subjective bullshit anyway, there is no right or wrong. Just have enough spine to represent what you actually want for the game. You mean like this?: " We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates." If every answer had been like that, I would have no issue. But please don't try and tell me there isn't at least as much evasive bullshit as straight answers in this little interview. I'd disagree with him on pretty much everything, but that's ok. I really don't think he's as evasive as you think. Or at all. What did you want him to say. Answer the "why" in the deathball question, not the how. Questions about the oracle, raven, swarm host. "we're keeping an eye on things" isn't very reassuring given their track record. Not a fan of David Kim at all, but here he does answer the questions pretty well. "Do you like the way the swarmhost is used' is answered with his vision on what is good and 'bad' swarmhost usage. Unfortunately he states he likes most of the things so we can't expect big changes. I find his answers incoherent and often disconnected from the question. It's difficult to discern what he actually thinks because his way of communicating is so confusing and opaque.
That Blizzard PR coming through.
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Although I really disliked some of the answers he gave, such as the arbitrary commitment never to make design changes after beta (even if theyre needed?), at least his answers were pretty straightforward. I think the game would be much better with warpgates as tier2 or tier3 but I appreciate the fact that its not my game, its blizzards game. If they love warpgates and forcefields so much, then I cant do much about that and as long as they give a straight answer it will have to do.
So basically, a lot of people dont like some of blizzards choices with the game. But hey its their game, I dont have to play it if I dont like it.
Thanks for doing this, I hope you do it again in the future.
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On February 06 2014 08:31 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:12 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, regarding TvP:
- He expects the current patch to help against blink all-ins (but he's ready to consider more changes)
- Mech is being played against P in Korea (?!?)
Regarding TvZ:
- They are thinking about nerfing ravens.
- They think tank is now very good in the MU. Jokes on you. Supernova plays mech and he's 33% of Terrans in Korea.
The joke part is also that there are people who still believe there is something like a "Blink all-in" in PvT. (;
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He kinda contradicted himself in the 1st answer. He said they wanted more action but doesn't want to get rid of the mass army vs army. Since SC2 has a very unforgiving game design, where a very small mistake can cost you the game, most players opt for massing army and being safe in their base rather than risk.
Also, still sad people still doesn't get and still QQ about Forcefield , Warpgate, Collosus. /sigh
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On February 06 2014 08:31 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:12 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, regarding TvP:
- He expects the current patch to help against blink all-ins (but he's ready to consider more changes)
- Mech is being played against P in Korea (?!?)
Regarding TvZ:
- They are thinking about nerfing ravens.
- They think tank is now very good in the MU. Jokes on you. Supernova plays mech and he's 33% of Terrans in Korea.
Haha. I'll say uncle on that.
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I love how in PvZ the first 15 mins P has like 20 all ins and zerg has none these days. Can we just have a queen spell that gives a spine 1500 HP and extra range so we can just make the games 20 mins no rush david kim? Should sound like music in your ears... I don't see a bright future for this game
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StarCraft is dead unless Rob Pardo steps in. It's just a mess right now, isn't it? All this balance stuff, it isn't even about balance, is it? It's mostly about design tweaks to make the game more enjoyable. That's the complaint. Its like a fighting game where the characters are roughly equally strong, but none are fun enough, and they're addressing it with balance patches.
I think the community needs to be serious about asking Blizzard to put Pardo in charge of the next expansion. For those who read this, consider mentioning Pardo more often in threads. He led the design on broodwar, remember.
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Meh, he never even answered "I notice alot of games tend to be SO close that a single miss click is the difference between winning and losing a game. Is that really considered balance? Units seem so fast I wonder if a all around nerf to unit speed (for all races) would help fix some of these issues. Your thoughts?". Not that I was expecting much. To be honest, his responses were better than I thought they would be, even if they were not really satisfactory.
Regardless, kudos to David Kim for doing this.
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On February 06 2014 08:32 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:31 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:28 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On February 06 2014 08:20 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:16 Pandain wrote:On February 06 2014 08:15 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:12 Firkraag8 wrote:On February 06 2014 08:08 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:03 ElMeanYo wrote:On February 06 2014 07:58 Squat wrote:
That man sure knows how to use a lot words without actually saying anything. He should go into politics. Because if you actually go into any specifics when talking to the community, you get burned later. That's what he's paid for. If you don't like the heat, get out of the fucking kitchen. If you are a lead designer on a game like SC2, you have to be ready to catch some flak. At least give us the basic respect of being honest, if your answer is "no we like everything about the game the way it is and will never change forcefields and symmetrical economies and all the other shit people have be berating us about since WoL beta", then fine. At least then we'll know and those who feel that it's a deal breaker can go play Dota or cricket or something instead. I disagree with him on just about every single design decision about the game, but all that is subjective bullshit anyway, there is no right or wrong. Just have enough spine to represent what you actually want for the game. You mean like this?: " We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates." If every answer had been like that, I would have no issue. But please don't try and tell me there isn't at least as much evasive bullshit as straight answers in this little interview. I'd disagree with him on pretty much everything, but that's ok. I really don't think he's as evasive as you think. Or at all. What did you want him to say. Answer the "why" in the deathball question, not the how. Questions about the oracle, raven, swarm host. "we're keeping an eye on things" isn't very reassuring given their track record. Not a fan of David Kim at all, but here he does answer the questions pretty well. "Do you like the way the swarmhost is used' is answered with his vision on what is good and 'bad' swarmhost usage. Unfortunately he states he likes most of the things so we can't expect big changes. I find his answers incoherent and often disconnected from the question. It's difficult to discern what he actually thinks because his way of communicating is so confusing and opaque. That Blizzard PR coming through.
If it is intentional he is the most brilliant dissembler I have ever seen. I have never seen anyone who can speak or write so many perfectly grammatical english sentences yet make no sense.
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On February 06 2014 08:31 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:28 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On February 06 2014 08:20 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:16 Pandain wrote:On February 06 2014 08:15 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:12 Firkraag8 wrote:On February 06 2014 08:08 Squat wrote:On February 06 2014 08:03 ElMeanYo wrote:On February 06 2014 07:58 Squat wrote:
That man sure knows how to use a lot words without actually saying anything. He should go into politics. Because if you actually go into any specifics when talking to the community, you get burned later. That's what he's paid for. If you don't like the heat, get out of the fucking kitchen. If you are a lead designer on a game like SC2, you have to be ready to catch some flak. At least give us the basic respect of being honest, if your answer is "no we like everything about the game the way it is and will never change forcefields and symmetrical economies and all the other shit people have be berating us about since WoL beta", then fine. At least then we'll know and those who feel that it's a deal breaker can go play Dota or cricket or something instead. I disagree with him on just about every single design decision about the game, but all that is subjective bullshit anyway, there is no right or wrong. Just have enough spine to represent what you actually want for the game. You mean like this?: " We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates." If every answer had been like that, I would have no issue. But please don't try and tell me there isn't at least as much evasive bullshit as straight answers in this little interview. I'd disagree with him on pretty much everything, but that's ok. I really don't think he's as evasive as you think. Or at all. What did you want him to say. Answer the "why" in the deathball question, not the how. Questions about the oracle, raven, swarm host. "we're keeping an eye on things" isn't very reassuring given their track record. Not a fan of David Kim at all, but here he does answer the questions pretty well. "Do you like the way the swarmhost is used' is answered with his vision on what is good and 'bad' swarmhost usage. Unfortunately he states he likes most of the things so we can't expect big changes. I find his answers incoherent and often disconnected from the question. It's difficult to discern what he actually thinks because his way of communicating is so confusing and opaque.
A famous humorist of my country once said [rough translation] "Technocrats, they're guys who, when they're done answering your question, you no longer understand what you asked".
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On February 06 2014 08:29 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 08:17 Ammanas wrote:
DId he say anything at all about the economy aspect of the game? Or again not a single soul asked him? (I did, but I was late -.-) A couple of people did mention the economy. It was not addressed, possibly because it did not have anything to do with the set guidelines for the AMA (although DK did answer a question on deathballs). However, DB, did (sort of) address it a while ago prior to HOTS release when LaLush raised it: Show nested quote +
LaLush: Sometime between October 2007 and October 2008, you decided to introduce better worker AI, shorten the time workers spent at minerals and decrease the yield to 5 minerals per trip. What happened during this time period that prompted you to change workers? What was your reasoning behind the changes? What are your thoughts on the cap on economic growth in your game? Do you guys at Blizzard at all view your artificial 3 base economic cap as an issue, or is it rather considered a non-issue?
Dustin Browder: One of our goals with workers (especially when it comes to the gas changes with 2 geysers) was to make your economy a little bit more expensive and complicated to manage since (at the time) we had a lot of concerns both on the team and in the community that base building was going to be too simple in SC2.
We discussed this some (but I like your insights here) during the beta for Swarm and felt like it was a pretty huge change at this point to alter core economy. We would have had to rebalance the entire game and at that time we were dealing with Oracle, Widowmine, etc. and those changes were absolutely kicking our butts.
I've PMed you the link to the full AMA in case you find it interesting.
Thank you very much. Quite an interesting read, isn't it? DB didn't answer the 2nd (probably more important) part of Lalush's question (if the 3 base cap is considered an issue or not). I would really love to know an answer to that.
The fact that they at least discussed it can suggest that they are maybe at least thinking about it for LotV. It would give me so much hope.
He is correctly stating, that such a change would probably require a complete balance overhaul. Do you guys think people would be OK, if there were no new units in LotV multiplayer and only a redesign of economy + rebalance of units already in?
I mean, how many units can they add anyway? The game feels like it has too much units already!
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On February 06 2014 08:36 CutTheEnemy wrote:
StarCraft is dead unless Rob Pardo steps in. It's just a mess right now, isn't it? All this balance stuff, it isn't even about balance, is it? It's mostly about design tweaks to make the game more enjoyable. That's the complaint. Its like a fighting game where the characters are roughly equally strong, but none are fun enough, and they're addressing it with balance patches.
I think the community needs to be serious about asking Blizzard to put Pardo in charge of the next expansion. For those who read this, consider mentioning Pardo more often in threads. He led the design on broodwar, remember.
I thought Pardo led the initial design on SC2 and DB stepped in from 2007 (a couple of years into SC2s development, IIRC)?
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David Kim is an awesome guy. I love him. I want to play 2v2 with him. Please don't be mad at him guyz  !!!
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Every time I read one of DK's answer, all I see is utter denial.
His answers mostly consist of admitting a potential problem, as in: "we acknowledge that players think that, but we disagree and we don't see a problem ourselves". Based on his answers, it just seems to me that Blizzard has absolutely no intention of making any major changes. They don't see the problems that a solid portion of the community does, so there is nothing else to see or talk about.
Over the past few months, the complaints about the 30 seconds fight and the death balls have been very consistent, but somehow Blizzard is blind to it. In the end, they make their game however they want, and it seems they don't really listen to anyone who is an outsider to Blizzard.
If the next Q&A sessions are like this, we can be sure that LotV won't bring any meaningful changes to the game.
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EPT
