• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:03
CEST 08:03
KST 15:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed16Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Soulkey Muta Micro Map? [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 605 users

David Kim answers Balance Questions on Battle.net forums -…

Forum Index > SC2 General
759 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#701
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

Life vs Sjow. Other than that, I think you'd have to go back to early WoL.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#702
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

There are tons of non-Korean Zergs or Protoss regularly "upsetting" stronger Korean opponents (especially when they're Terran).
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 08 2014 23:22 GMT
#703
I watched the innovation vs soulkey mech games and I thought that innovation's play was very rough, with a lot of positional mistakes. And I know it's very difficult to constantly make the correct decisions, and I'm not saying mutas are fine, but I think that if you give it three more months of practice that these games might end up differently. I feel like this style is new-ish enough players might not be well versed in it yet. I couldn't watch the vs solar games though, what was bad about tem?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
February 08 2014 23:23 GMT
#704
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?


Bly 2-0 Dear?
Was that on stream?
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 08 2014 23:33 GMT
#705
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:40 GMT
#706
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?

This phenomenon is not only caused by balance, but above all by difficulty to play.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
February 08 2014 23:46 GMT
#707
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?


If the races are so poorly designed that making the "average" Terran as good as the "average" Protoss makes the top Terrans dominate everyone else because Terran units reward mechanical skill more than units of other races, then fix the god damn units that don't reward mechanical skill.

How is this even arguable? This gets my knickers so bunched it's not even funny.

HOTS TvZ proved for a fact that it is possible to have asymmetric races that take roughly the same amount of mechanical skill to play. Settling for less is freaking lazy.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 00:06:43
February 09 2014 00:05 GMT
#708
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/
Give thanks and praise!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
February 09 2014 00:19 GMT
#709
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 09 2014 00:33 GMT
#710
On February 09 2014 09:05 Breach_hu wrote:
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/

Oracle was specifically added to give protoss a fun unit though.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
February 09 2014 00:35 GMT
#711
Really? I thought it was just to flesh out detection and equalise Stargate/Robo tech trees a bit
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
February 09 2014 00:42 GMT
#712
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 09 2014 10:12 GMT
#713
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 09 2014 10:40 GMT
#714
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
February 09 2014 10:43 GMT
#715
On February 09 2014 09:42 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage

Grubby didnt even rage during the BL-Infestor days, so it must be quite something if SH can have that effect on him.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
February 09 2014 10:52 GMT
#716
On February 09 2014 19:40 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc


To put that in perspective, he played that game against super idiots (who were reknowned for that). He didn't lash out to random people or something like that.
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
February 09 2014 10:54 GMT
#717
I don't see much of a difference between ht skytoss and sh turtle style. Not that I wouldn't want both to be eradicated.. just saying.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 09 2014 10:57 GMT
#718
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 09 2014 11:47 GMT
#719
On February 09 2014 19:57 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Fairly sure he was sarcastic about the "but he's in a slump!" argument people in denial use when a race is doing bad (and thus its players have worse results).
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 09 2014 13:01 GMT
#720
You don't have a clue what you are talking about.


So right now there is no Terran on earth that can beat Soulkey or Parting. Do you think that this is a healthy state? Dont be rediculous.

For Maru u can expect to take games from best Z and P.

And the latest patch reminds me sth. After several months of Brooflord Infestor era, DK stated that there is no problem at the highest level of play, but to pretend he cared he decreased fungal range by one point.

And as expected it had same impact as the latest patch == 0 impact!
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 328
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 15750
Backho 96
PianO 77
ajuk12(nOOB) 19
Dewaltoss 12
LuMiX 1
Britney 0
Stormgate
NightEnD12
Dota 2
monkeys_forever831
League of Legends
JimRising 800
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1534
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor92
Other Games
summit1g12164
shahzam1208
WinterStarcraft444
ROOTCatZ57
Trikslyr26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2600
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH250
• practicex 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2977
League of Legends
• Lourlo1535
• Stunt624
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
3h 57m
Epic.LAN
5h 57m
CSO Contender
10h 57m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
Online Event
1d 9h
Esports World Cup
3 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.