• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:59
CEST 18:59
KST 01:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)63ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play Enough with this crap patch: boring and suck! Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BSL Season 22
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7494 users

David Kim answers Balance Questions on Battle.net forums -…

Forum Index > SC2 General
759 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#701
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

Life vs Sjow. Other than that, I think you'd have to go back to early WoL.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#702
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

There are tons of non-Korean Zergs or Protoss regularly "upsetting" stronger Korean opponents (especially when they're Terran).
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 08 2014 23:22 GMT
#703
I watched the innovation vs soulkey mech games and I thought that innovation's play was very rough, with a lot of positional mistakes. And I know it's very difficult to constantly make the correct decisions, and I'm not saying mutas are fine, but I think that if you give it three more months of practice that these games might end up differently. I feel like this style is new-ish enough players might not be well versed in it yet. I couldn't watch the vs solar games though, what was bad about tem?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
February 08 2014 23:23 GMT
#704
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?


Bly 2-0 Dear?
Was that on stream?
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 08 2014 23:33 GMT
#705
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:40 GMT
#706
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?

This phenomenon is not only caused by balance, but above all by difficulty to play.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
February 08 2014 23:46 GMT
#707
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?


If the races are so poorly designed that making the "average" Terran as good as the "average" Protoss makes the top Terrans dominate everyone else because Terran units reward mechanical skill more than units of other races, then fix the god damn units that don't reward mechanical skill.

How is this even arguable? This gets my knickers so bunched it's not even funny.

HOTS TvZ proved for a fact that it is possible to have asymmetric races that take roughly the same amount of mechanical skill to play. Settling for less is freaking lazy.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 00:06:43
February 09 2014 00:05 GMT
#708
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/
Give thanks and praise!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27035 Posts
February 09 2014 00:19 GMT
#709
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 09 2014 00:33 GMT
#710
On February 09 2014 09:05 Breach_hu wrote:
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/

Oracle was specifically added to give protoss a fun unit though.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27035 Posts
February 09 2014 00:35 GMT
#711
Really? I thought it was just to flesh out detection and equalise Stargate/Robo tech trees a bit
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
February 09 2014 00:42 GMT
#712
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 09 2014 10:12 GMT
#713
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 09 2014 10:40 GMT
#714
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
February 09 2014 10:43 GMT
#715
On February 09 2014 09:42 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage

Grubby didnt even rage during the BL-Infestor days, so it must be quite something if SH can have that effect on him.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
February 09 2014 10:52 GMT
#716
On February 09 2014 19:40 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc


To put that in perspective, he played that game against super idiots (who were reknowned for that). He didn't lash out to random people or something like that.
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
February 09 2014 10:54 GMT
#717
I don't see much of a difference between ht skytoss and sh turtle style. Not that I wouldn't want both to be eradicated.. just saying.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 09 2014 10:57 GMT
#718
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 09 2014 11:47 GMT
#719
On February 09 2014 19:57 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Fairly sure he was sarcastic about the "but he's in a slump!" argument people in denial use when a race is doing bad (and thus its players have worse results).
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 09 2014 13:01 GMT
#720
You don't have a clue what you are talking about.


So right now there is no Terran on earth that can beat Soulkey or Parting. Do you think that this is a healthy state? Dont be rediculous.

For Maru u can expect to take games from best Z and P.

And the latest patch reminds me sth. After several months of Brooflord Infestor era, DK stated that there is no problem at the highest level of play, but to pretend he cared he decreased fungal range by one point.

And as expected it had same impact as the latest patch == 0 impact!
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:00
King of the Hill #254
EmpressLilyy32
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 625
LamboSC2 485
MindelVK 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23096
Calm 3016
Sea 1203
EffOrt 634
Mini 613
Jaedong 199
BeSt 158
Shuttle 155
actioN 149
firebathero 111
[ Show more ]
Sea.KH 65
ggaemo 60
Leta 54
Hyun 35
yabsab 27
scan(afreeca) 23
NotJumperer 22
IntoTheRainbow 19
Rock 17
HiyA 17
Sacsri 13
Dota 2
Gorgc8482
qojqva1459
Dendi962
League of Legends
KnowMe50
Counter-Strike
fl0m1977
adren_tv54
Other Games
singsing3194
FrodaN1483
B2W.Neo1171
hiko1019
Beastyqt576
DeMusliM309
Sick181
XaKoH 129
ArmadaUGS82
Mew2King67
QueenE49
Trikslyr41
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream15346
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 373
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 9
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki15
• FirePhoenix1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis6118
• TFBlade1199
Other Games
• Shiphtur201
Upcoming Events
Bombastic Starleague
3h 1m
Douyu Cup 2020
12h 1m
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Big Brain Bouts
23h 1m
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 12h
Maestros of the Game
1d 19h
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 21h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
OSC
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-24
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.