• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:49
CET 04:49
KST 12:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies1ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1873 users

David Kim answers Balance Questions on Battle.net forums -…

Forum Index > SC2 General
759 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#701
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

Life vs Sjow. Other than that, I think you'd have to go back to early WoL.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#702
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

There are tons of non-Korean Zergs or Protoss regularly "upsetting" stronger Korean opponents (especially when they're Terran).
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 08 2014 23:22 GMT
#703
I watched the innovation vs soulkey mech games and I thought that innovation's play was very rough, with a lot of positional mistakes. And I know it's very difficult to constantly make the correct decisions, and I'm not saying mutas are fine, but I think that if you give it three more months of practice that these games might end up differently. I feel like this style is new-ish enough players might not be well versed in it yet. I couldn't watch the vs solar games though, what was bad about tem?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
February 08 2014 23:23 GMT
#704
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?


Bly 2-0 Dear?
Was that on stream?
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 08 2014 23:33 GMT
#705
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:40 GMT
#706
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?

This phenomenon is not only caused by balance, but above all by difficulty to play.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
February 08 2014 23:46 GMT
#707
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?


If the races are so poorly designed that making the "average" Terran as good as the "average" Protoss makes the top Terrans dominate everyone else because Terran units reward mechanical skill more than units of other races, then fix the god damn units that don't reward mechanical skill.

How is this even arguable? This gets my knickers so bunched it's not even funny.

HOTS TvZ proved for a fact that it is possible to have asymmetric races that take roughly the same amount of mechanical skill to play. Settling for less is freaking lazy.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 00:06:43
February 09 2014 00:05 GMT
#708
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/
Give thanks and praise!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
February 09 2014 00:19 GMT
#709
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 09 2014 00:33 GMT
#710
On February 09 2014 09:05 Breach_hu wrote:
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/

Oracle was specifically added to give protoss a fun unit though.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
February 09 2014 00:35 GMT
#711
Really? I thought it was just to flesh out detection and equalise Stargate/Robo tech trees a bit
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
February 09 2014 00:42 GMT
#712
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 09 2014 10:12 GMT
#713
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 09 2014 10:40 GMT
#714
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
February 09 2014 10:43 GMT
#715
On February 09 2014 09:42 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage

Grubby didnt even rage during the BL-Infestor days, so it must be quite something if SH can have that effect on him.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
February 09 2014 10:52 GMT
#716
On February 09 2014 19:40 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc


To put that in perspective, he played that game against super idiots (who were reknowned for that). He didn't lash out to random people or something like that.
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
February 09 2014 10:54 GMT
#717
I don't see much of a difference between ht skytoss and sh turtle style. Not that I wouldn't want both to be eradicated.. just saying.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 09 2014 10:57 GMT
#718
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 09 2014 11:47 GMT
#719
On February 09 2014 19:57 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Fairly sure he was sarcastic about the "but he's in a slump!" argument people in denial use when a race is doing bad (and thus its players have worse results).
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 09 2014 13:01 GMT
#720
You don't have a clue what you are talking about.


So right now there is no Terran on earth that can beat Soulkey or Parting. Do you think that this is a healthy state? Dont be rediculous.

For Maru u can expect to take games from best Z and P.

And the latest patch reminds me sth. After several months of Brooflord Infestor era, DK stated that there is no problem at the highest level of play, but to pretend he cared he decreased fungal range by one point.

And as expected it had same impact as the latest patch == 0 impact!
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 8h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft234
Nathanias 101
RuFF_SC2 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 613
ZergMaN 267
Yoon 180
ggaemo 83
NaDa 46
GoRush 46
Noble 33
sorry 19
Icarus 4
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm108
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0393
Trikslyr46
Counter-Strike
summit1g8157
minikerr37
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox359
Other Games
JimRising 466
Maynarde160
Mew2King71
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1076
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 104
• Mapu33
• practicex 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 17
• Azhi_Dahaki5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22452
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
1d 8h
Gerald vs YoungYakov
Spirit vs MaNa
SHIN vs Percival
Creator vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.