• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:00
CEST 08:00
KST 15:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!13Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7209 users

David Kim answers Balance Questions on Battle.net forums -…

Forum Index > SC2 General
759 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#701
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

Life vs Sjow. Other than that, I think you'd have to go back to early WoL.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#702
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

There are tons of non-Korean Zergs or Protoss regularly "upsetting" stronger Korean opponents (especially when they're Terran).
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 08 2014 23:22 GMT
#703
I watched the innovation vs soulkey mech games and I thought that innovation's play was very rough, with a lot of positional mistakes. And I know it's very difficult to constantly make the correct decisions, and I'm not saying mutas are fine, but I think that if you give it three more months of practice that these games might end up differently. I feel like this style is new-ish enough players might not be well versed in it yet. I couldn't watch the vs solar games though, what was bad about tem?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
February 08 2014 23:23 GMT
#704
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?


Bly 2-0 Dear?
Was that on stream?
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 08 2014 23:33 GMT
#705
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:40 GMT
#706
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?

This phenomenon is not only caused by balance, but above all by difficulty to play.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
February 08 2014 23:46 GMT
#707
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?


If the races are so poorly designed that making the "average" Terran as good as the "average" Protoss makes the top Terrans dominate everyone else because Terran units reward mechanical skill more than units of other races, then fix the god damn units that don't reward mechanical skill.

How is this even arguable? This gets my knickers so bunched it's not even funny.

HOTS TvZ proved for a fact that it is possible to have asymmetric races that take roughly the same amount of mechanical skill to play. Settling for less is freaking lazy.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 00:06:43
February 09 2014 00:05 GMT
#708
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/
Give thanks and praise!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27264 Posts
February 09 2014 00:19 GMT
#709
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 09 2014 00:33 GMT
#710
On February 09 2014 09:05 Breach_hu wrote:
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/

Oracle was specifically added to give protoss a fun unit though.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27264 Posts
February 09 2014 00:35 GMT
#711
Really? I thought it was just to flesh out detection and equalise Stargate/Robo tech trees a bit
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
February 09 2014 00:42 GMT
#712
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 09 2014 10:12 GMT
#713
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 09 2014 10:40 GMT
#714
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
February 09 2014 10:43 GMT
#715
On February 09 2014 09:42 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage

Grubby didnt even rage during the BL-Infestor days, so it must be quite something if SH can have that effect on him.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
February 09 2014 10:52 GMT
#716
On February 09 2014 19:40 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc


To put that in perspective, he played that game against super idiots (who were reknowned for that). He didn't lash out to random people or something like that.
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
February 09 2014 10:54 GMT
#717
I don't see much of a difference between ht skytoss and sh turtle style. Not that I wouldn't want both to be eradicated.. just saying.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 09 2014 10:57 GMT
#718
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 09 2014 11:47 GMT
#719
On February 09 2014 19:57 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Fairly sure he was sarcastic about the "but he's in a slump!" argument people in denial use when a race is doing bad (and thus its players have worse results).
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 09 2014 13:01 GMT
#720
You don't have a clue what you are talking about.


So right now there is no Terran on earth that can beat Soulkey or Parting. Do you think that this is a healthy state? Dont be rediculous.

For Maru u can expect to take games from best Z and P.

And the latest patch reminds me sth. After several months of Brooflord Infestor era, DK stated that there is no problem at the highest level of play, but to pretend he cared he decreased fungal range by one point.

And as expected it had same impact as the latest patch == 0 impact!
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft560
Nina 114
ProTech66
FoxeR 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3589
GuemChi 2035
PianO 614
Noble 76
Icarus 9
Dota 2
The International24797
Gorgc11472
Fuzer 255
NeuroSwarm101
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox292
C9.Mang0180
Mew2King94
Other Games
summit1g5600
Maynarde127
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH278
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 630
League of Legends
• Rush1371
• Stunt830
• HappyZerGling56
Upcoming Events
Escore
4h
PiG Sty Festival
6h
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
Big Brain Bouts
10h
Nicoract vs Neeb
TriGGeR vs ShoWTimE
CranKy Ducklings
1d 4h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 6h
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-13
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W7
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.