• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:47
CEST 05:47
KST 12:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double1Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon105
StarCraft 2
General
Recent patches and the Future Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot
Tourneys
[ASL22] Rp8 Day 4 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8017 users

David Kim answers Balance Questions on Battle.net forums -…

Forum Index > SC2 General
759 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#701
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

Life vs Sjow. Other than that, I think you'd have to go back to early WoL.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:21 GMT
#702
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?

There are tons of non-Korean Zergs or Protoss regularly "upsetting" stronger Korean opponents (especially when they're Terran).
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 08 2014 23:22 GMT
#703
I watched the innovation vs soulkey mech games and I thought that innovation's play was very rough, with a lot of positional mistakes. And I know it's very difficult to constantly make the correct decisions, and I'm not saying mutas are fine, but I think that if you give it three more months of practice that these games might end up differently. I feel like this style is new-ish enough players might not be well versed in it yet. I couldn't watch the vs solar games though, what was bad about tem?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
February 08 2014 23:23 GMT
#704
On February 09 2014 08:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Has that ever happend? :D

Talking foreign players btw:
Bly 2 - 0 Dear
WTF?


Bly 2-0 Dear?
Was that on stream?
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 08 2014 23:33 GMT
#705
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 08 2014 23:40 GMT
#706
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?

This phenomenon is not only caused by balance, but above all by difficulty to play.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
February 08 2014 23:46 GMT
#707
On February 09 2014 08:33 TW wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bly 2 - 0 Dear


It just confirms What everybody knows. Good nonkorean Zerg or Protos can win against top Korean players, but top nonkorean Terrans cannot.

I know they cannot buff T too much cause 3 top Koreans will dominate the scene, but why those few other Terrans have to be in a such disadvantage?


If the races are so poorly designed that making the "average" Terran as good as the "average" Protoss makes the top Terrans dominate everyone else because Terran units reward mechanical skill more than units of other races, then fix the god damn units that don't reward mechanical skill.

How is this even arguable? This gets my knickers so bunched it's not even funny.

HOTS TvZ proved for a fact that it is possible to have asymmetric races that take roughly the same amount of mechanical skill to play. Settling for less is freaking lazy.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 00:06:43
February 09 2014 00:05 GMT
#708
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/
Give thanks and praise!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27412 Posts
February 09 2014 00:19 GMT
#709
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 09 2014 00:33 GMT
#710
On February 09 2014 09:05 Breach_hu wrote:
I think the first step must be for PvX matchups to make them fun, not balanced. Absolutely horrible to play TvP right now, and even ZvP is just boring. I hope they'll start to redesign and scrap those bad units like Colossus and Oracle and add some fun units instead. :/

Oracle was specifically added to give protoss a fun unit though.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27412 Posts
February 09 2014 00:35 GMT
#711
Really? I thought it was just to flesh out detection and equalise Stargate/Robo tech trees a bit
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
February 09 2014 00:42 GMT
#712
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 09 2014 10:12 GMT
#713
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
February 09 2014 10:40 GMT
#714
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
February 09 2014 10:43 GMT
#715
On February 09 2014 09:42 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 09:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow, just saw the tail end of Grubby playing vs a hardcore SH turtle. 1 hour 20 mins, genuinely never seen Grubby so frustrated, I wasn't even sure he had the capacity to feel such emotions


You know something is terribly wrong if you manage to get Grubby rage. Lets hope we never reach that stage

Grubby didnt even rage during the BL-Infestor days, so it must be quite something if SH can have that effect on him.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
February 09 2014 10:52 GMT
#716
On February 09 2014 19:40 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 19:12 Destructicon wrote:
Damn, I can hardly believe it, any VoDs of it? Grubby strikes me as one of the most emotionally stable people, it must take a lot to make him break down.

Grubby had the reputation of being one of the most bm players in wc3.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/12-Warcraft_III/851200-4KGrubby_laughs_about_aids_etc


To put that in perspective, he played that game against super idiots (who were reknowned for that). He didn't lash out to random people or something like that.
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
February 09 2014 10:54 GMT
#717
I don't see much of a difference between ht skytoss and sh turtle style. Not that I wouldn't want both to be eradicated.. just saying.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 09 2014 10:57 GMT
#718
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 09 2014 11:47 GMT
#719
On February 09 2014 19:57 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 08:16 TW wrote:
Yes I know, Solars is doing fine recently among Soulkey, Roro etc.
Zest is doing fine among Trap, Rain, Parting, Dear, hero...
Inno is in a slump, Flash is in code B, Maru lost two last games in proleague so is in a slump probably too, Supernova got owned, Teaja didn't reach ro16 in Asus ROG, TY lost to Parting, MMA lost 2:0 to Paranoid (seriously?)

Look, Welmu beat 3:0 Life recently, Teaja lost to another nonkorean Zerg, MMA lost to Paranoid, now tell me when was the last time nonkorean Terran won a match against code S Zerg or Protos???

Maru lost two games in proleague so is probably in a slump too.

2 games against Soulkey, in his worst MU?

In a slump?

2 games?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Fairly sure he was sarcastic about the "but he's in a slump!" argument people in denial use when a race is doing bad (and thus its players have worse results).
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
February 09 2014 13:01 GMT
#720
You don't have a clue what you are talking about.


So right now there is no Terran on earth that can beat Soulkey or Parting. Do you think that this is a healthy state? Dont be rediculous.

For Maru u can expect to take games from best Z and P.

And the latest patch reminds me sth. After several months of Brooflord Infestor era, DK stated that there is no problem at the highest level of play, but to pretend he cared he decreased fungal range by one point.

And as expected it had same impact as the latest patch == 0 impact!
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2411
Shinee 45
NotJumperer 16
Noble 12
Dota 2
monkeys_forever985
NeuroSwarm203
Heroes of the Storm
WinterStarcraft411
Other Games
summit1g7349
Coldzera 763
JimRising 677
C9.Mang0393
PiGStarcraft267
ArmadaUGS29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1019
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream385
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo985
• Rush852
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 13m
Afreeca Starleague
6h 13m
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
20h 13m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 7h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Online Event
4 days
FEL
4 days
AI Arena Tournament
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: Ladder Tournament
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.