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Constructive criticism is welcome, but no mindless SC2/Developer bashing in this thread. |
Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50
Don't think this will affect any matchup other then PvP(so WTF?)... I don't like this at all.
Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100
Better than nothing I guess, but doesn't fix the problem.
Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in
Kinda fine with this one, but it will maybe lead to more SCV pulls  And if this is to fix Mech, then haha good luck. And in the late game TvP Bio play, this won't matter. (Maybe able to respond quicker to Templars, but I don't know if this will help much. P usually don't use any timing-window, between T knowing about your Templars and before T have Ghosts, to end the game)
Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25
Haha, this is almost funny. R.I.P Stargate into third. And then later more gas into Muta-switch too.
A Passive Tempest ability that allows them to deal 2-3 times more damage vs. Structures (We’re not 100% set on the actual value yet.)
Don't know yet, but don't think it'll affect much unless it's something really ridiculous that allows P to snipe Hatch/CC/Nexus.
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On January 24 2014 04:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:42 Chaggi wrote:On January 24 2014 04:40 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:38 pmp10 wrote:
So minor changes to TvP?
Exactly as expected from the man. Better then breaking the match up so Protoss looses all the time/. That would be just as bad yeah cause that'll happen if you change early game Protoss. let's take things to the extreme I don't even know what you are saying. Big changes to the match up could just make it more broken. The goal is to make it both sides have an equal chance to win.
He could address the main issues that people are having with Protoss, and that being early game. He could reverse the oracle speed change which was not needed at all in the first place. I'm not even saying make big changes. It's like if you've been cut on your finger, and instead of fixing that up, you decide to put a bandaid on your leg.
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So Snute and Firecake played a few long PvZs and now they feel the need to mess up everything? There have always been boring ways to play every matchup. Some players choose to play like that. I think the biggest problem that the SC2 balance team is missing is that you can do a lot with maps. You can nerf Blink Stalker alins into oblivion by map design alone. Yet DK & co are focused on shutting down every timing attack or any part of the game that people don't like as soon as it pops up rather than allowing players to find a solution or simply redesigning the maps a little to compensate.
I think the PO nerf AND TW nerf AND ghost buff all together will make Templar openings VERY hard to do because as Bomber showed yesterday... make some bio, pull all SCVs, EMP the crap out of everything and LOLOLOLOL. The strategy to hold something like this when scouted was to get a few sentries and FF off to delay or time warp etc. while that last bit of Storm finishes. Now with all the nerfs + buffed ghosts you won't be able to do that. Will be very difficult IMO.
If Blizzard wants to make mech work, design maps with longer rush distance and easier to defend 3rd and 4th bases. Mech is gas starved for a while and the little bit of gas from ghost EMP is not what's going to make the difference.
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Hydra cost buff is a really big deal, that's half the gas cost with this, even if it was only 50 before. Means faster tech/upgrades by a decent margin. Maybe the minerals could be reduced to 75 or something? I dunno, gas is definitely more important.
And the tempest passive ability sounds kind of unnecessary and would affect PvT as well (not that tempests TvP are the biggest deal right now though).
The ghost/overcharge/time warp are perfect changes though.
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"Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25"
not shure if it´s possible to survive any midgame transitions in pvz. will force protoss even more to go 2base allin.
"Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100"
i like this idea the most. time warp is the reason, why blink allins are that strong.
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Hydra buff will almost force terrans to go mech in tvz. It might mix up ZvZ a little though.
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On January 24 2014 04:47 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:45 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:42 Chaggi wrote:On January 24 2014 04:40 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:38 pmp10 wrote:
So minor changes to TvP?
Exactly as expected from the man. Better then breaking the match up so Protoss looses all the time/. That would be just as bad yeah cause that'll happen if you change early game Protoss. let's take things to the extreme I don't even know what you are saying. Big changes to the match up could just make it more broken. The goal is to make it both sides have an equal chance to win. He could address the main issues that people are having with Protoss, and that being early game. He could reverse the oracle speed change which was not needed at all in the first place. I'm not even saying make big changes. It's like if you've been cut on your finger, and instead of fixing that up, you decide to put a bandaid on your leg.
Well we all don't get the exact changes that we want.
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the hydra change will transform the entire game if it goes through. I wonder.
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As a Zerg player, I want to inflict abuse upon all Protoss players with anything possible. Infinite flood of hydralisks with 1 supply roach buff please.
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On January 24 2014 04:48 DinoMight wrote:
So Snute and Firecake played a few long PvZs and now they feel the need to mess up everything? There have always been boring ways to play every matchup. Some players choose to play like that. I think the biggest problem that the SC2 balance team is missing is that you can do a lot with maps. You can nerf Blink Stalker alins into oblivion by map design alone. Yet DK & co are focused on shutting down every timing attack or any part of the game that people don't like as soon as it pops up rather than allowing players to find a solution or simply redesigning the maps a little to compensate.
I think the PO nerf AND TW nerf AND ghost buff all together will make Templar openings VERY hard to do because as Bomber showed yesterday... make some bio, pull all SCVs, EMP the crap out of everything and LOLOLOLOL. The strategy to hold something like this when scouted was to get a few sentries and FF off to delay or time warp etc. while that last bit of Storm finishes. Now with all the nerfs + buffed ghosts you won't be able to do that. Will be very difficult IMO.
If Blizzard wants to make mech work, design maps with longer rush distance and easier to defend 3rd and 4th bases. Mech is gas starved for a while and the little bit of gas from ghost EMP is not what's going to make the difference.
yes, you can tinker around with maps until only one map design is left that is available, because you cannot make a different map. Or they may try to balance the game with different maps in mind, which sounds much more fun.
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On January 24 2014 04:47 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:45 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:42 Chaggi wrote:On January 24 2014 04:40 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:38 pmp10 wrote:
So minor changes to TvP?
Exactly as expected from the man. Better then breaking the match up so Protoss looses all the time/. That would be just as bad yeah cause that'll happen if you change early game Protoss. let's take things to the extreme I don't even know what you are saying. Big changes to the match up could just make it more broken. The goal is to make it both sides have an equal chance to win. He could address the main issues that people are having with Protoss, and that being early game. He could reverse the oracle speed change which was not needed at all in the first place. I'm not even saying make big changes. It's like if you've been cut on your finger, and instead of fixing that up, you decide to put a bandaid on your leg.
I don't think Blizzard ever reverted anything the community agreed was a bad nerf or buff. If they realize they made a mistake they usually go with the bandaid approach and change something else instead of the buff/nerf that created the problem.
That is how it has always been in SC2
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Even though I appreciate their will to balance the game, I really would like to see at least half a year, better a year, without any changes. It seems like Bliizard forgets his own past, there were always times (in BW) where one race was dominant, but the other races always found an answer eventually. Just because TvP f.e. seems hard for the terrans for some month it does not mean that there is no way to change that. Just give the players time to develope new tactics.
With the constant balance changes you will always buff some players and others not, you create your own imbalance. I mean will there be a point where Blizzard says : Ok, no more changes, it is balanced now.
Or will it always be like this ? They should listen to the Koreans (i mean, hey, they definitely now a lot about esports/bw/sc) and stop balancing.
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I liked it better when he was randomly buffing movement speeds.
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On January 24 2014 04:16 ArTiFaKs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:11 Grumbels wrote:On January 24 2014 03:15 Whitewing wrote:
Oh god, that tempest buff will be insane in PvT and PvP (I play Protoss) and will not noticeably impact PvZ Why shouldn't it? Tempests are part of your late-game PvZ army and one of the reasons the match-up goes on forever is because you can't break spore crawlers because all your core units die to them. (void ray, tempest, colossus) I still wouldn't want to play a game where you have to wait for tempests to kill buildings, but it does give a minor timing/resource advantage to protoss and might dissuade zerg from such passive play and pull them towards more decisive strategies. Or maybe it won't do anything (say, because now protoss has incentive to turtle more), but I don't think you can tell right away. The problem with PvZ isn't that Spores and Spines are hard to kill, its the fact that they are spending so many resources just keeping up with the SwarmHost/Viper/Curruptor composition that fighting Spines and Spores would be suicide. Giving Carriers Interceptors without having to buy them every time they die would accomplish this resource disadvantage, 1) They wouldn't have to constantly replenish Interceptors and waste resources which is a huge disadvantage when fighting Free Units lategame when resources are super scarce and super valuable 2) Would give them a unit that is much stronger against Static Defense because of Interceptors causing AI to get confused 3) Give Protoss a Unit that lategame can keep up with the powerful powerful Zerg compositions. Vipers will still be able to abduct and since the Carriers still cost a lot to produce, it will still be very strong. But I think this would also give Carriers some new life in the game, because now they make an appearance every 2 years or so.
But free interceptors is like adding more free units to the game.
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On January 24 2014 04:53 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:47 Chaggi wrote:On January 24 2014 04:45 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:42 Chaggi wrote:On January 24 2014 04:40 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:38 pmp10 wrote:
So minor changes to TvP?
Exactly as expected from the man. Better then breaking the match up so Protoss looses all the time/. That would be just as bad yeah cause that'll happen if you change early game Protoss. let's take things to the extreme I don't even know what you are saying. Big changes to the match up could just make it more broken. The goal is to make it both sides have an equal chance to win. He could address the main issues that people are having with Protoss, and that being early game. He could reverse the oracle speed change which was not needed at all in the first place. I'm not even saying make big changes. It's like if you've been cut on your finger, and instead of fixing that up, you decide to put a bandaid on your leg. I don't think Blizzard ever reverted anything the community agreed was a bad nerf or buff. If they realize they made a mistake they usually go with the bandaid approach and change something else instead of the buff/nerf that created the problem. That is how it has always been in SC2
Which makes absolutely no sense at all. I have no idea what they're smoking, seriously.
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On January 24 2014 04:53 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:47 Chaggi wrote:On January 24 2014 04:45 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:42 Chaggi wrote:On January 24 2014 04:40 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:38 pmp10 wrote:
So minor changes to TvP?
Exactly as expected from the man. Better then breaking the match up so Protoss looses all the time/. That would be just as bad yeah cause that'll happen if you change early game Protoss. let's take things to the extreme I don't even know what you are saying. Big changes to the match up could just make it more broken. The goal is to make it both sides have an equal chance to win. He could address the main issues that people are having with Protoss, and that being early game. He could reverse the oracle speed change which was not needed at all in the first place. I'm not even saying make big changes. It's like if you've been cut on your finger, and instead of fixing that up, you decide to put a bandaid on your leg. I don't think Blizzard ever reverted anything the community agreed was a bad nerf or buff. If they realize they made a mistake they usually go with the bandaid approach and change something else instead of the buff/nerf that created the problem. That is how it has always been in SC2
Especially when it's only one section of the community, rather then everyone.
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On January 24 2014 04:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:35 goody153 wrote:On January 24 2014 04:34 The_Templar wrote:On January 24 2014 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:
TBQH i would prefer a revert of ghost cost to 150/150 instead of 200/100 hmmm... why? 200/100 is better than the 150/150 . Or they could just make it 150/100 or 150/75 150/75? Let's not go crazy here. That's only slightly more costly than a stalker and I know which one I would take.
But you support Blizzard's 100/25 hydralisk?
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It's hard to say the tempest change goes too far because it's just the wrong direction imo. Tempests would suddenly become sick at sniping hatcheries even on 2-base, let alone silly one base tempest builds. I know that's perhaps theory crafting too much but as talked about on meta, swarm host really needs some sort of change to encourage moving them around and being aggressive. The Tempest change, even if wasn't OP, would be a nerf to those turtle-y styles but not add much to the boringness of the swarm host.
The problem is deciding what the correct design change for the swarm host is is a really difficult question, not even anyone on meta had any real solutions, just some ideas.
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Photon Overcharge time reduced to 50 from 60 is simply ridiculous. Could as well stay 60 secs then.
MSC engery cost for Overcharge is a really good thing to start with, now only vision problems need to be adressed.
Hydra cost reduction is absolutely unnecessary, but okay, probably won't be imba, I guess.
Tempest change close to that proposed DT speed increase... I mean, WTF, Blizzard! I know, it's just ideas, but HOW ON EARTH can you come up with such BS?!?!?!
Better fix dem fucking Carriers, damn it!
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On January 24 2014 04:56 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 04:38 Plansix wrote:On January 24 2014 04:35 goody153 wrote:On January 24 2014 04:34 The_Templar wrote:On January 24 2014 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:
TBQH i would prefer a revert of ghost cost to 150/150 instead of 200/100 hmmm... why? 200/100 is better than the 150/150 . Or they could just make it 150/100 or 150/75 150/75? Let's not go crazy here. That's only slightly more costly than a stalker and I know which one I would take. But you support Blizzard's 100/25 hydralisk?
Sure, what the fuck, why not? It's a test map. Test stuff on the test map and adjust from there.
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EPT
