1/24 Balance test map - Page 11

On January 24 2014 04:26 FeyFey wrote:


Ghosts will be more accessible for Mech that way. Which they explained and its true. Its also a huge Bio buff, cloaked Ghosts will be so much earlier now in Ghost Viking, wonder how strong the effects will be.
I dislike removal of upgrades as well (Ultras should still have 2, so there is enough time to react to them), but they do change alot.

2 Timewarps are often okay, but if there was a full MsC, you often got a 3rd one a little time later and those often broke the last bit of resistance. This 3rd one will be impossible now and weaken alot of Protoss pushes.

On January 24 2014 04:30 DarkLordOlli wrote:
The hydra change can never go through so I'm not even gonna start worrying about it

On January 24 2014 04:22 Ghanburighan wrote:
Blizz threw in a ludicrous hydra buff just to distract people from the fact that P is wrecking terrans across the globe (with the exception of Maru, Flash and TY, and even they lose outside of proleague). Now, everyone is talking about buffing hydras by reducing their gas cost by 50% (why don't we have 50 gas banshees, DT's while we're at it) because, well, that's the most insane thing in the list.

At the same time, there's not enough attention to properly discuss the TvP situation, and the effect that changing TW has on blink stalkers and the nexus cannot duration change on the ability of P to tech up all paths with 2 forge on 1 gateway. The answer is, it's just not enough. Functionally, how does the 25 energy stop you from casting TW? Has anyone seen a double TW being cast in a blink stalker rush? No, you don't even need it. So, won't you get 100 energy by the time your blink stalkers attack? Well, you do always get it, and quite a bit to spare as well (proof anyone?). So, effectively, the change does nothing.

What about the 10 second nerf? The problem now is that the only timings a T can hit can only bait out an overcharge. By the time it's gone, the P has 1 colossus and up to 2 new warp-ins of units. As warp-ins are 28 seconds for zealots and 32 seconds for stalkers, in brute numbers you now strictly cannot get 2 warp-ins of zealots. But it's roughly the same for stalkers as those took longer than 60 seconds anyway. Furthermore, for the timings by T I've seen recently (think Bomber v Jim), the colossus was already out and idling in the natural by the time the PO has dissipated. So the 10 seconds wouldn't really change anything. If it were really close, it might.

So, my prediction is that this is just a red herring, while it's business as usual.

On January 24 2014 04:26 FeyFey wrote:


Ghosts will be more accessible for Mech that way.

On January 24 2014 04:29 comadiroma wrote:
It's very sad to see how many people can be so short sighted when looking at the proposed changes for patches... I don't pretend to know that all of these possible changes will be good/bad, but every single patch I see has hordes of people yelling about how this that and the other thing is insignificant and won't change anything or that it will totally break everything.

1. The ghost change probably wouldn't change anything when using ghosts the way people currently do in TvP, but it might open up ghost rushing which could do a lot.

2. Photon overcharge might be too soft of a nerf, but that's why we try changes instead of putting them straight into the game...

3. The hydra buff does sound too strong, admittedly because muta switches from hydra ling are already very good, but again, we try it, and if the test map shows its too strong, it can be removed, no worries. I'm a Zerg and I'd love for it to work out because I suspect it could do wonders in ZvT and ZvZ.

4. The time warp nerf seems pretty solid. It means that a MSC at 150 energy now needs another 50 before it can double time warp as opposed to already having enough for 2 time warps. It also means that a full energy MSC can still double time warp, but will now be a whopping 100 energy away from doing ANYTHING as opposed to before where 25 energy later it could lay down a 3rd TW or have a recall/PO in only 50 energy. That certainly sounds like it has the potential to be a game changer at least.

5. The possible tempest buff is almost impossible to comment on, the late game mass swarm host turtle style isn't the most popular so I haven't actually seen it in a while, they haven't released the numbers they actually want to try so there is no way to know how many tempests would be necessary to negate a Zerg turtle style, and if the hydra buff went through the whole opening phase of ZvP might shift entirely and a huge tempest buff might be a now necessary late game edge for Toss.

Overall I like the suggested changes for testing, and after we see what that testing produces I'll be able to give an opinion on whether or not I'd like them to go through. Anyone who's approaching it from a perspective of "I already know what this will do" is almost certainly wrong. Seriously just from a historical perspective alone most of the knee jerk reaction to patches is actually flat out incorrect most of the time.

On January 24 2014 04:34 The_Templar wrote:

hmmm... why?