• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:48
CEST 14:48
KST 21:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed14Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll6Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Help: rep cant save ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 856 users

1/24 Balance test map

Forum Index > SC2 General
1004 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 49 50 51 Next
Constructive criticism is welcome, but no mindless SC2/Developer bashing in this thread.
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14458 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-23 19:42:10
January 23 2014 18:07 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50

We’d like to try a smaller change with Photon Overcharge duration than we previously proposed because we agree that going too low on this side could negatively affect PvP. On the balance test map, we must make sure to not only test how the change works out against the other races, but also in one-base PvP play.

Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100

This is another option we can go with. We hope this will decrease the effectiveness of early game Protoss strength, as well as somewhat decrease the power of Blink-based strategies, which have become a lot more effective recently.

Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in

We believe this change will not only help Terran against Protoss, which is our top concern right now, but it’ll also help with TvP mech. Right now, we’re seeing a lot more mech usage in both TvT and TvZ, and as far as mech buffs go, we’d like to only touch TvP right now.

Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25

We’re most concerned about PvZ with this change since Hydralisks are really only a core unit in that matchup. We’d love to see how the testing goes for this change on the next balance test map.

We don’t think this will be problematic for either side in TvZ right now. It’s very Zergling/Baneling/Mutalisk focused for Zerg, whereas Terran players are exploring mech play and have the already solid option to go bio. We were thinking this buff will potentially help open up some more options for Zerg in this matchup.

In ZvZ, we’re seeing a lot more Roach focused strategies than before and believe this change will allow for easier Roach/Hydra transitions.

Overall, we want to check what a general Hydralisk buff would do for all three matchups in the next balance test map.

Late game PvZ

Additionally on the Zerg front, we’re seeing a bit more in the way of super long and dragged out PvZ games in Europe. We’ve been discussing this internally and believe the main issue comes from using Swarm Hosts in a completely defensive way while taking additional expansions, massing Spore and Spine Crawlers, then continuing to play passively while using Vipers to pull key Protoss units into the forward, massed Zerg defenses. For this strategy, there are two main units involved, as well as the massing of base defenses, and we’d like a change that only hits this specific part of the PvZ game. We believe that when Swarm Hosts are not used in this manner, they aren’t an issue at the moment, especially when we see them being used in a lot of games coming from Korea. Similarly, when Vipers aren’t comboed with a mass of base defenses, we also don’t see the Viper being too powerful in other scenarios.

So the change that we’re thinking about is:

A Passive Tempest ability that allows them to deal 2-3 times more damage vs. Structures (We’re not 100% set on the actual value yet.)

Protoss players who are facing this very passive Zerg style can get Tempests without too much trouble, and they come into play late enough that we’d like to test this change. If Tempests can not only kill the Crawlers much faster, but also allow Protoss to make cost effective trades more easily in this mid-map standoff scenario, we believe there will be much less incentive for Zerg to play this way.

Again, none of this is final. We haven’t published a balance test map on it, yet. Your feedback is welcome, and if this process goes smoothly, we will look to publish a balance test map within the next couple of weeks at the latest.

Thank you.



Source : http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11395649563

Polls: Approve or disapprove?

+ Show Spoiler +
Poll: Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50

Doesn't go far enough (745)
 
62%

Good change (320)
 
27%

Goes too far (130)
 
11%

1195 total votes

Your vote: Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50

(Vote): Goes too far
(Vote): Good change
(Vote): Doesn't go far enough



Poll: Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100

Good change (777)
 
70%

Doesn't go far enough (177)
 
16%

Goes too far (160)
 
14%

1114 total votes

Your vote: Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100

(Vote): Goes too far
(Vote): Good change
(Vote): Doesn't go far enough



Poll: Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in

Good change (753)
 
68%

Goes too far (280)
 
25%

Doesn't go far enough (67)
 
6%

1100 total votes

Your vote: Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in

(Vote): Goes too far
(Vote): Good change
(Vote): Doesn't go far enough



Poll: Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25

Goes too far (740)
 
60%

Good change (465)
 
38%

Doesn't go far enough (27)
 
2%

1232 total votes

Your vote: Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25

(Vote): Goes too far
(Vote): Good change
(Vote): Doesn't go far enough



Poll: A Passive Tempest ability for bonus damage to structures

Goes too far (729)
 
68%

Good change (285)
 
27%

Doesn't go far enough (51)
 
5%

1065 total votes

Your vote: A Passive Tempest ability for bonus damage to structures

(Vote): Goes too far
(Vote): Good change
(Vote): Doesn't go far enough

Facebook Twitter Reddit
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
myRZeth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1047 Posts
January 23 2014 18:09 GMT
#2
sometimes i m wondering

how incompetent can you be?

hydra buff probably came up while being under Meth influence

not nerfing mshipcore vision but the other things too

what the hell is this

User was temp banned for this post.
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
January 23 2014 18:10 GMT
#3
Oh god the hydras.

Lol @ Tempyst change.
Refer to my post.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
January 23 2014 18:10 GMT
#4
At last, at last. Some patch that will adress the TvP issue in a way that doesn't seem dumb.
PanzerKing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States483 Posts
January 23 2014 18:12 GMT
#5
If this is the best that they can manage, I think I'll stick with Starbow.
http://tkrmx.blogspot.com/
NovaMB
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany9534 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-23 18:27:38
January 23 2014 18:12 GMT
#6
Tefel will become the strongest player in Europe with that Hydra buff.
My guess is that timewarp thing wont change anything, but I'll have to test that.
PO change doesnt do anything, because you can still use it on both Nexus.

Tempests: lolwut
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
January 23 2014 18:13 GMT
#7
Hydra buff: competely useless and pointless. Zerg doesnt need more gas than they have now.

Mothership Core: change vision range to fix blink allins, other than that it's ok

Ghost upgrade: might bring back the ghost before medivac builds. I'm unsure what this will do to current templar builds but i doubt it'll change much honestly.

Time warp energy: what's the point of this? Why is time warp a problem? The power of blink all-ins is the vision

Tempest buff: doesnt change shit about the zerg having way more resources and, in general, making for incredibly boring games. Also it's a PvT buff, and protoss is already absolutely undefeatable when we can get tempests together with colo/templar.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-23 18:21:51
January 23 2014 18:14 GMT
#8
Would've prefered 40 seconds for PO, but let's see!

As for the Hydra buff, it will mean an even bigger army at faster rate, which would be zergy which is cool. But I don't think it's going to be fair, I think it would be too good vs Protoss. They need another fix, maybe +10 Life?
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
January 23 2014 18:14 GMT
#9
hydra buff probably came up while being under Meth influence


so, you want the tempest buff for free.
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-23 18:16:30
January 23 2014 18:15 GMT
#10
Oh god, that tempest buff will be insane in PvT and PvP (I play Protoss) and will not noticeably impact PvZ, the time warp nerf is okay I think, but please don't nerf overcharge at all, PvP will be completely nuked. It's barely enough time as it is. Ghosts coming with energy upgrade automatically is a little overkill I think, it's mostly going to be treated as just a slight Bio buff. As for hydras: wut? WTF!?
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
DifuntO
Profile Joined November 2011
Greece2376 Posts
January 23 2014 18:15 GMT
#11
I don't think this Hydralisk change will actually go through.

Time Warp and Ghost changes seem good.

Also i can't wait for the Tempest hit squads that will go one-shot Hatcheries and recall back
All I do is Stim.
invisigoat
Profile Joined March 2013
184 Posts
January 23 2014 18:15 GMT
#12
I don't mind any of this personally. Imo Buffs > Nerfs so let's see what happens
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
January 23 2014 18:16 GMT
#13
PO nerf is insignificant, and the Tempest building damage is on queen range/oracle movespeed stupidity level.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Storm-Giant
Profile Joined March 2012
Spain416 Posts
January 23 2014 18:16 GMT
#14
Hydra buff? Is that NEEDED? ~_~

PO nerf is little change, I can live with that.

Time Warp nerf is nice, but I wish they'd completely remove it and add something more interesting and not anti-micro.

Ghost with 75 energy...it's true that they aren't very utilized right now, but I'm not sure about this change...this will make TaeJa even stronger T_T

Tempest change, I'd rather make them a bit better vs everything and slighty less powerful vs massive, air units.
<3 Rain
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 23 2014 18:17 GMT
#15
Man, I just want to be able to burn back creep with my colossi. Then I don't have to deal with spines and spores.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
January 23 2014 18:18 GMT
#16
/FailFish

User was warned for this post
sorry for dem one liners
sacade
Profile Joined January 2013
166 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 08:25:43
January 23 2014 18:19 GMT
#17
edit:
first thought:

Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50
Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100

2 slight nerfs that won't break the game and make it a bit more interesting. It's nice to go with little steps.


Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in
Moar ghosts


Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25
Moar hydra
However Hydra all-in will become insane in ZvP. I like it but it needs a nerf at the same time unfortunately.


Tempest buff
Tempest are fine like they are.
It's Carrier that still get no role in SC2. A buff against buildings seems silly for them so give them a new ability or a buff to make them better vs hydra/Swarm host.
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
January 23 2014 18:21 GMT
#18
Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50

Pointless tbh, still kills zerg and terran timings, only makes pvp more volatile. Why not photon overcharge damage nerf + bonus damage against shields? Nerf it only PvT/PvZ and keep PvP the same

Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100

Uhhh... not sure where they're going with this. I guess it does help against blink stalkers, but not that much. I'd rather see a vision change honestly to make it riskier to lose the core

Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in

Reasonable I guess, makes ghosts far cheaper to get. Terrans should be happy

Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25

LOL this is complete NONSENSE. GLHF being forced to rush colossus every single game to not die to ridiculous hydra busts. GG any stargate based openings. Let's not do this. This is crazy

A Passive Tempest ability that allows them to deal 2-3 times more damage vs. Structures

Tempests attack far too slow for this to make much of a difference, and that still doesn't make the game any less boring or exciting.
SooYoung-Noona!
MWY
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany284 Posts
January 23 2014 18:22 GMT
#19
Yay less upgrades more retarded buffs :D Why not make damage specific to every unit in the game?

Marine:
4 Damage vs Zealot
5 Damage vs Stalker
2 Damage vs High Templar
50 Damage vs Dark Templar
9 Damage vs Immortal
Special 100 Damage vs Observers
...
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
January 23 2014 18:22 GMT
#20
lol hydra buff haha! MAssing that shit asap
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
1 2 3 4 5 49 50 51 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 438
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 36402
Sea 3142
EffOrt 818
Larva 799
Mind 777
Stork 617
Mini 372
Light 338
Pusan 280
Last 265
[ Show more ]
Snow 223
JYJ205
Zeus 163
ToSsGirL 148
Hyun 139
TY 138
PianO 124
Backho 107
Barracks 63
sSak 52
Sharp 50
Rush 36
Sacsri 32
scan(afreeca) 27
ajuk12(nOOB) 24
Hm[arnc] 19
GoRush 15
Noble 14
IntoTheRainbow 10
Shine 7
SilentControl 7
Bale 5
sas.Sziky 4
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
Gorgc9883
singsing2970
Counter-Strike
x6flipin486
byalli282
sgares275
markeloff44
Other Games
B2W.Neo1207
hiko524
DeMusliM380
Lowko303
Fuzer 264
SortOf130
Pyrionflax67
Mew2King55
Trikslyr28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2499
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2437
• Jankos1183
Upcoming Events
OSC
12m
WardiTV European League
3h 12m
Fjant vs Babymarine
Mixu vs HiGhDrA
Gerald vs ArT
goblin vs MaNa
Jumy vs YoungYakov
Replay Cast
11h 12m
OSC
11h 12m
Epic.LAN
23h 12m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 21h
Epic.LAN
1d 23h
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
4 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

JPL Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.