EPTHow about giving the mothership (not the core) a disruption web ability?
1/24 Balance test map - Page 5
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Constructive criticism is welcome, but no mindless SC2/Developer bashing in this thread. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17588 Posts
How about giving the mothership (not the core) a disruption web ability? | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On January 24 2014 03:39 Zheryn wrote: Agree with everything except tempest and hydra change. Why not look into the reason of ZvP turtle style and try some SH changes, making them worse defensively and better offensively? Hydra change would just brake the game. The entire metagame in ZvZ would change and the current roach builds would be more or less dead. ZvP would become ridiculously zerg favoured and that's even coming from a zerg who has 40% win rate in ZvP and rages about toss all the time. Well the clear problem with SH is that, the projectiles they shoot also tank damage, thus they are much, much stronger defensively then say, tanks, because with tanks you at least need to create a meat shield of units in front of them and that costs resources. SH is both the siege tank and the hellbat in front of the siege tank. I think they need to nerf the HP of locust, raise their spread, increase their damage but reduce the attack speed. The reduced HP means they will no longer be strong on the defensive, they won't be able to tank 8 colossus and 1 storm worth of damage for toss to just clear them, it will force zerg to invest into other units to keep the SH safe in addition to static defense, and will, hopefully cut into the numbers of SH themselves. The speed buff to locust and additional top end damage will keep them good on the attack, since locust have less HP you want them to reach their target sooner, and since locust also have less HP you want their damage to be more burst, so that they can at least do some of it before they die. | ||
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goody153
44020 Posts
If they don't want to affect PvP why don't reduce the msc vision or make timewarp cost a lot or if ever photon overcharge is used it will not allow probe production for protoss or a longer buildtime for msc and much more expensive msc or even a slow regeneration in msc's energy so that protoss players don't just randomly use its abilities without thinking. I think this won't do anything other than affect pvp. This change is pointless and won't be very effective. Just like the siege tank buff where it only helped the SH vs tank wars a little bit. Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100 Still too small for timewarp energy. It won't matter since there is still little risk added when protoss uses timewarp. Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in Its fine change i guess but cheaper ghost's would be preferable. It will help both tvp mech and bio a little bit. Still the issue in the early game won't be solved by this. Although this will help midgame and lategame a little bit. Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25 This may affect zvp ? idk . Will definitely help zerg against toss so that they won't have the gas problem. Maybe this will be goodbye to pure roach usage since hydras are definitely better at least most of the time. This change doesn't make any sense other than bringing a cheaper hydra that was asked by a lot of players that played BW before. Add's more color to zerg compositions maybe. But not needed. I also don't think this change will affect balance though if ever this patch goes through this can be disastrous for protosses or maybe a great thing that will create variety in the game. A Passive Tempest ability that allows them to deal 2-3 times more damage vs. Structures Oh boy. Not sure about this change but if this doesn't achieve and affect too many things that what they are supposed to achieve with this change a lot of protoss hate will happen. In pvt this could make a terrans life ugly in the lategame with CC sniping since terran can't engage with toss deathball and this could bait a unwanted fight for terran just to save bases. Worst case scenario is this makes terrans don't want to go lategame just like how horrible oracle change did to early game in tvp but that's just my intuition. In pvz i am not sure but hopefully this won't be damaging other aspects too much while achieving they eliminate the turtle swarmhost ball play and turn it positional swarm host play. In pvp oh boy i could imagine lategame being required for stargate transitions but i really don't know. I guess the balance team has no clue on how to balance tvp without destroying the beautiful state of pvp right now. Or maybe they do i am just not seeing it yet. Although i am skeptical about most of the changes. Blizzard responding is always better than them being silent. So i am gonna hopeful that this is the start of better state on sc2. | ||
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MrProdigious
36 Posts
 the Photon ovrecharge is going to hurt pvp expand builds. But I guess the timewarp nerf will work, not sure why it was a problem but maybe something will change from it. | ||
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B1itZZ
United Kingdom70 Posts
Timewarp also good change and anything that weakens Photon Overcharge is fine with me..! Hydras may be a step too far but I do like the idea though would be nice to see them a bit more. Don't rate the Tempest change though. | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
but DAMN, they would cost almost the same as a roach O_O how awesome... P.S. I'm glad they are willing to experiment with these significant changes! If they don't work, we can think of other things  | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 24 2014 03:41 sAsImre wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine 3.5 less dps per supply than a stim marine, you still live in a cool world i see. The players' skill wasn't factored out properly. Ghosts have longer range and don't need to stim to do the extra dps. They are also sturdier, since they are not light or armored. | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
Curious how it works out. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17588 Posts
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tili
United States1332 Posts
On January 24 2014 03:48 Plansix wrote: Ghosts have longer range and don't need to stim to do the extra dps. They are also sturdier, since they are not light or armored. They also have snipe and can cloak. | ||
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Midday
Canada59 Posts
but it will fix ZvZ and make ZvT mech more playable. Maybe look into the infestor..? | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On January 24 2014 03:49 Sapphire.lux wrote: I like it, except the Tempest change. It's a terrible boring unit that the less we see of the better. SH are also a problem in ZvT (mech) so just change them in some way. Locusts should act like infested terrans and not scale with upgrades, at least not armor upgrades. The tankiness of locusts leads to boring play. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On January 24 2014 03:48 Plansix wrote: Ghosts have longer range and don't need to stim to do the extra dps. They are also sturdier, since they are not light or armored. they got one quarter of the dps of a marine on a non light target, no stim means their only escape is medivacs. The only good thing about their attack is the cloack + obs snipe. and if you play mech you've enough dps, hellbats just murder light units anyway (and you see nobody massing ghosts with mech for a good reason, you just want to emp) | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Photon Overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 50 Insignificant. At least reduce the range as well. Time Warp energy cost increased from 75 to 100 Yes, but not enough. The MSC needs several other nerfs. The 14 sight range is completely overkill and needs to be toned down to 9-10. Even a 100 energy Time Warp would still be an unnecessary bonus for Protoss, the race didn't need at all yet another anti-micro AoE disable spell. At least reduce the length and the radius as well. Also implement a "casting point," the MSC instantly casts its spells with no turning rate, removing any kind of finesse there might be in using it. Ghosts build with the energy upgrade built in Why not, but then again what's up with this lazy trend of removing upgrades to "fix" things? Decreasing the cost of the Ghost to 175 or 150 minerals would make more sense. Also, increasing the damage of Nukes to 750 (for buildings) could not hurt. The mech justification is laughable. If they want to see more Tanks vs Protoss, all they have to do is this: - Rework Hardened Shields so that attacks dealing more than 20 damage are halved instead of reduced to 10. Attacks ranging from 10 to 20 damage are still reduced to 10. - Give Tanks a +15 bonus damage vs Massive targets. If Ghosts are required to kill Protoss ground armies, then there is no mech. Mech needs to be able to operate without the Ghost (at least in midgame), simple as that. Hydralisk cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25 Completely game-breaking. I have absolutely no idea how you would be able to stop 2/2 Roaches/Hydras timings with that. Zerg cannot have a 25 gas Hydralisk with its current values given their production. Why not nerf Voids instead... Besides, they should stop thinking that a mirror is as important as the other two non-mirrors. Also, what about reverting the Oracle movement speed buff? Reverting the Stim time nerf? Reverting the Mine nerf, at least partially? Reverting the Protoss upgrades cost buff? Increasing the Raven supply to 3 so there is less incentive to play a completely passive mech into mass Ravens? | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13379 Posts
Or you pressure with 20 hydras for 500 gas (instead of 1000) that is now 5 extra mutas on your next push. Or the other way instead of pressuring with 10 hydras, you can pressure with more and then switch to mutas. Its really going to hurt the fragility of protoss responses to Zerg tech switches and might skew the matchup which is already a little in zergs favour further into their favour. I know the circlejerk is that protoss is OP, but this is really going to effect a matchup that is in a decent spot (outside of super boring turtle host games). As for the other toss changes I think they are good a 100 energy timewarp makes earlier pushes in pvp less harmful and you can poke out to check the map without worrying about a timewarp and stalkers hurting your early army. 50 second overcharge will keep pvp in a decent spot and wont break it like the 40 second overcharge would have. I think i would need to see the ghost change in action to decide if its a good one or not. It worries me but i think its ok. I think it will be way too strong in the hands of someone like Taeja, but reasonable at all the lower levels. Though I do think they still need to change the vision of the mama core. Way too much at 14 imo. | ||
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Maegi
Finland174 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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BlueLanterna
291 Posts
I'm sticking with starbow | ||
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