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On December 14 2013 00:27 Ravomat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:18 Razbu wrote:
I am glad you decided to abandon that disgusting dirty race and get back to the real deal...the terran...you will get stormed, you will get amoved thru while the tos is sitting back sipping on his juice...but you will have your dignity and the respect of your terran bros. WP This comment makes me so sad. It's like playing on ladder.
Eh, it seems to be the standard Terran mindset around here lately.
Slowly but surely TL is turning into the Battlenet forums. :-\
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On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:On December 13 2013 23:28 Plansix wrote:
Also, last time I checked he still doesn't use map hot keys. I don't know how he expects to do well against any high level player that uses them. He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here.
Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys..
Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently.
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People are actually arguing camera hotkeys are useless? LMAO
TL, what has thou turned to
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Sjow, I really enjoyed watching the stream. I think you could have made it, if you had focused more on the mechanical aspects of your play. Generally speaking, you are one of the most "strategical" players out there, which often gives you an edge against predictable players, but to have success on the ladder, your mechanics with protoss looked kinda off. (of course, nobody expected you to macro perfectly, because you just had switched races, but with better mechanics you'd surely have had more success.) But yeah, pvp is kinda random, especially on the ladder, where you can't adjust to your opponent's playstyle like in a BOx-series.
Well, it's your decision. keep fighting! I'm looking forward to you playing mech. 
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On December 14 2013 00:17 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 00:11 Hider wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:On December 13 2013 23:28 Plansix wrote:
Also, last time I checked he still doesn't use map hot keys. I don't know how he expects to do well against any high level player that uses them. He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never uses these controls, except as I said, spamming them early. Innovation. Honestly I also use them alot. I think it makes life easier. I don't know why anyone could claim otherwise. Maphotkeys are the dopest. Being able to move the map without going to the minimap is always great. It's not like it will prevent you to get into gm.
It totally could prevent him from getting onto GM with Protoss. He has to fight other Protoss and terrans who use them. Being able to go to a section of the map without a control group is fucking clutch as Protoss. I can't speak to the other races, but I am sure they are useful there as well. I don't know what world you are living in where this basic mechanic isn't useful. They use them in Dota as well. If you want to be the best, you use map hot keys.
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On December 14 2013 00:17 playa wrote:
I don't get the p vs p hate, unless hating on cannon rushers... You can make same units as other guy. You have a nexus cannon that basically means you can get to the mid game and outplay your opponent. I see some builds working better against others, but if you can't adjust to outplay someone, then the problem is your build, not the mu.
Most of the time I hear about toss imbalance from terran players on ladder, usually their worst matchup by far is t vs t.... Someone with 25% in t vs t and 64% in t vs p was telling me how easy p vs t is and toss in general. My question is, what would their sentiment be if their t vs p was at 25%? It's just embarrassing to me how many players can be horrible at a mirror mu, yet blame any short comings in another mu on imbalances, lol. Terran players...
The builds make far too much of a difference in PvP. Since both have access to the same units and both can warp-in X-map, the build and small advantages one gets from one build over the other makes a much bigger impact. With ZvZ, the advantages are a lot more subtle and outplaying the opponent can get you a victory. For instance, I always open up 15 pool, when most people open up with a 15 hatch or something. This really only equates to a small drone advantage, and by playing the defender, you can always make up for that. The same cannot be said for PvP, which has many hard blind-counter builds. Since they have so many "tactics" (aka, badly designed units like DTs, oracles, blink stalkers, etc.) you end up having to choose to be safe for 2/3 of the possibilities while leaving yourself vulnerable for that last 1/3. So, the problem is actually the game, which influences the matchup.
ANYWAY
I'm glad to see Sjow man up and stick with Terran. Obviously the cooler race to play. After he did so well at Dreamhack a while back, I was really surprised to see him change anything. Sadly, the latest DH was not successful, but have some faith, ya?
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On December 14 2013 00:30 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:On December 13 2013 23:28 Plansix wrote:
Also, last time I checked he still doesn't use map hot keys. I don't know how he expects to do well against any high level player that uses them. He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here. Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys.. Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently.
I never said you had to use location hotkeys to get into GM. But it seriously compromises the speed and effeciency in which you can do things. I would say that by just not using them your mechanics can instantly be classified as bad.
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On December 14 2013 00:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:17 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 00:11 Hider wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:On December 13 2013 23:28 Plansix wrote:
Also, last time I checked he still doesn't use map hot keys. I don't know how he expects to do well against any high level player that uses them. He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never uses these controls, except as I said, spamming them early. Innovation. Honestly I also use them alot. I think it makes life easier. I don't know why anyone could claim otherwise. Maphotkeys are the dopest. Being able to move the map without going to the minimap is always great. It's not like it will prevent you to get into gm. It totally could prevent him from getting onto GM with Protoss. He has to fight other Protoss and terrans who use them. Being able to go to a section of the map without a control group is fucking clutch as Protoss. I can't speak to the other races, but I am sure they are useful there as well. I don't know what world you are living in where this basic mechanic isn't useful. They use them in Dota as well. If you want to be the best, you use map hot keys.
Are you kidding me ? Camera hotkey might be useful at the very top but to get into GM you don't need them, especially when you have low APM like Sjow. There are so much more important thing to work on before camera hotkey. Hell, even at high master your macro isn't perfect, or the multitask, those are the things you need to work on to get into GM.
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On December 14 2013 00:35 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:30 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:On December 13 2013 23:28 Plansix wrote:
Also, last time I checked he still doesn't use map hot keys. I don't know how he expects to do well against any high level player that uses them. He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here. Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys.. Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently. I never said you had to use location hotkeys to get into GM. But it seriously compromises the speed and effeciency in which you can do things. I would say that by just not using them your mechanics can instantly be classified as bad.
I consider myself solid (not perfect ofc) at macro and I don't use them, that doesn't prevent me to reach high master, and I know using them won't change a lot my play and my level, as I said in my previous post, there are A LOT of thing to work on before starting to use camera location.
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He probably realized that there are too few terrans in higher masters / GM and that his PvT could only carry him that far...
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Terrans in this game used to believe in something.
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On December 14 2013 00:36 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:33 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 00:17 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 00:11 Hider wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:
[quote]
He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never uses these controls, except as I said, spamming them early. Innovation. Honestly I also use them alot. I think it makes life easier. I don't know why anyone could claim otherwise. Maphotkeys are the dopest. Being able to move the map without going to the minimap is always great. It's not like it will prevent you to get into gm. It totally could prevent him from getting onto GM with Protoss. He has to fight other Protoss and terrans who use them. Being able to go to a section of the map without a control group is fucking clutch as Protoss. I can't speak to the other races, but I am sure they are useful there as well. I don't know what world you are living in where this basic mechanic isn't useful. They use them in Dota as well. If you want to be the best, you use map hot keys. Are you kidding me ? Camera hotkey might be useful at the very top but to get into GM you don't need them, especially when you have low APM like Sjow. There are so much more important thing to work on before camera hotkey. Hell, even at high master your macro isn't perfect, or the multitask, those are the things you need to work on to get into GM.
I love how your argument has shifted from camera hot keys being useless to they not preventing him from getting into GM. Sjow didn't make it as a Protoss because of his bad habits and slow play, which will lose you games, especially against zergs. Not using map hot keys is bad and no pro should make a habit of not using them. They make you faster.
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On December 14 2013 00:29 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 21:16 ETisME wrote:
lol switched because P too imba in PvT, switched back because PvP is too frustrating This... I respect Sjow for making a statement, but this is similar to why he switched to Protoss 2 weeks ago. Because TvP is frustrating. If he kept on switching on that reason alone, then he'd might as well quit the game because TvP is more frustrating that PvP imo. No matchup in the game can be considered not frustrating.
Actually no, its just the protoss matchups.
Solution: Remove Protoss from the game, replace with W3 orcs.
Ty
Anyway, Sjow would've got GM, not top 50 though. Bottom line if he really hates PvP its not worth switching, since he will quit eventually anyway.
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On December 14 2013 00:38 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:30 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:
[quote]
He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here. Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys.. Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently. I never said you had to use location hotkeys to get into GM. But it seriously compromises the speed and effeciency in which you can do things. I would say that by just not using them your mechanics can instantly be classified as bad. I consider myself solid (not perfect ofc) at macro and I don't use them, that doesn't prevent me to reach high master, and I know using them won't change a lot my play and my level, as I said in my previous post, there are A LOT of thing to work on before starting to use camera location.
You think you're solid and you think they won't help much based on your vast RTS experience... surely that must outweigh the general consensus that they're really useful. People get to masters all the time with bad habits. It's not hard to start using location hotkeys and it simply makes you faster and more action efficient at taking new expansions and worker transfers. It's especially important later on when your multitasking/apm is stretched and you're looking to take and saturate a 4th/5th. I have nfi why someone who plays the game at a good level would choose not to use them beyond some combination of stubbornness, ignorance or laziness.
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That's really unfortunate that you quit just because of getting tilted for a few games, SjoW  I figured you'd have a little more patience than that, especially if you felt that Protoss was more your style now. Had to laugh at the remark that Protoss is imba lol.
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Yea, you definitely stopped because of pvp, not because your experiment was utter failure from the get go where you can't reach even high master on NA ladder after 400 games.
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I can't believe that there are people trying to argue against camera hotkeys.
This thread went full battlenet foruns.
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On December 14 2013 00:03 riceant wrote:
The mods on TL are obviously protoss players because everytime someone talks about protoss being easy and imba they get ban-hammered, but every time someone smack talks people who talk about protoss imba, they do nothing, even though the pro-protosses use language that is much more offensive...
Keep up the bias, mods!
Pretty sure explicit balance whining for any reason, especially without presenting any evidence, can get you warned or banned.
...unless you go to the designated balance whine thread or the letting off steam thread. Protoss and Zerg players seem to prefer the latter, while Terran players seem to prefer the former.
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On December 14 2013 00:30 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:On December 13 2013 23:28 Plansix wrote:
Also, last time I checked he still doesn't use map hot keys. I don't know how he expects to do well against any high level player that uses them. He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here. Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys.. Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently.
With Sjow switching back to Terran, there are now the same number of 70 APM Terrans and 70 APM Protosses in GM.
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EPT
