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On December 14 2013 01:00 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:38 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:30 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here. Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys.. Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently. I never said you had to use location hotkeys to get into GM. But it seriously compromises the speed and effeciency in which you can do things. I would say that by just not using them your mechanics can instantly be classified as bad. I consider myself solid (not perfect ofc) at macro and I don't use them, that doesn't prevent me to reach high master, and I know using them won't change a lot my play and my level, as I said in my previous post, there are A LOT of thing to work on before starting to use camera location. You think you're solid and you think they won't help much based on your vast RTS experience... surely that must outweigh the general consensus that they're really useful. People get to masters all the time with bad habits. It's not hard to start using location hotkeys and it simply makes you faster and more action efficient at taking new expansions and worker transfers. It's especially important later on when your multitasking/apm is stretched and you're looking to take and saturate a 4th/5th. I have nfi why someone who plays the game at a good level would choose not to use them beyond some combination of stubbornness, ignorance or laziness.
C'mon, it's like saying : you won't up into GM if you don't use them, with if false. I don't need it to saturate my bases when there is a magic "base camera rotation" button that does it for me. It happened a lot of time that I outmacroed some GM's. I know that if I want to up into GM, I have other things much more important to correct than start using camera hotkey, that will annoy me more than anything because I don't have 200 APM and I already have some trouble managing 3 army control when I play vs P, if you add camera in the lot, I'm gonna mess everything up.
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On December 14 2013 01:00 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 00:38 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:30 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here. Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys.. Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently. I never said you had to use location hotkeys to get into GM. But it seriously compromises the speed and effeciency in which you can do things. I would say that by just not using them your mechanics can instantly be classified as bad. I consider myself solid (not perfect ofc) at macro and I don't use them, that doesn't prevent me to reach high master, and I know using them won't change a lot my play and my level, as I said in my previous post, there are A LOT of thing to work on before starting to use camera location. You think you're solid and you think they won't help much based on your vast RTS experience... surely that must outweigh the general consensus that they're really useful. People get to masters all the time with bad habits. It's not hard to start using location hotkeys and it simply makes you faster and more action efficient at taking new expansions and worker transfers. It's especially important later on when your multitasking/apm is stretched and you're looking to take and saturate a 4th/5th. I have nfi why someone who plays the game at a good level would choose not to use them beyond some combination of stubbornness, ignorance or laziness.
Cant speak for protoss or terran here. Im zerg and i havent touched camera hotkeys nor base rotation ever, yet im quite comfortable with my macro in GM league. it doesnt really matter if you use them or not if youre fast and accurate in what youre doing. Also its almost impossible to force yourself to switch using sth new such as camera hotkeys when you never have done it - my muscle memory has been set for this for 3 years now ^^
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Although some players don't use camera hot keys, they are awesome and can only make you better if you work them into your play. They are so awsome that dota 2 player hard code them(map hot keys are not menu option in dota). And dota 2 players control 1 hero(or up to 6 if you are meepo). They are that awesome.
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You mean you quit as soon as you got frustrated and it wasn't easy? At least give it the whole month...
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I totally got ya. If PvP and ZvZ are less frustrating I would definitely switch to P or Z.
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On December 14 2013 01:21 HandA711 wrote:
I totally got ya. If PvP and ZvZ are less frustrating I would definitely switch to P or Z.
Uh huh, do tell us more.
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Hey man as a Protoss I enjoyed watching you struggle but I also liked that your attitude shifted more toward getting better rather than proving a balance point.
Was fun watching you learn a race, gl bro
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On December 14 2013 01:06 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 01:00 Scarecrow wrote:On December 14 2013 00:38 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:30 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 00:26 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:55 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 23:54 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:
[quote]
Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that. Except for demuslim...? I hear he is pretty good. Look at him playing, he almost never use these control, except as I said, spamming them early. I watch his stream a lot with my fiancé, he uses them all the time to mark rally points, to keep an eye on the opponents ramp. He says he uses them out loud during his stream. Why are you trying to tell people map hot keys are bad? They are super useful as Protoss for quick chrono boosting and warp ins. Almost all pros use them all the time. Don't listen to the silver heros in here. Silver hero lmao. Srly, these guys.. Saying camera hotkey are ultra important to up into GM is ridiculous considering how much 70 APM protoss there are in GM currently. I never said you had to use location hotkeys to get into GM. But it seriously compromises the speed and effeciency in which you can do things. I would say that by just not using them your mechanics can instantly be classified as bad. I consider myself solid (not perfect ofc) at macro and I don't use them, that doesn't prevent me to reach high master, and I know using them won't change a lot my play and my level, as I said in my previous post, there are A LOT of thing to work on before starting to use camera location. You think you're solid and you think they won't help much based on your vast RTS experience... surely that must outweigh the general consensus that they're really useful. People get to masters all the time with bad habits. It's not hard to start using location hotkeys and it simply makes you faster and more action efficient at taking new expansions and worker transfers. It's especially important later on when your multitasking/apm is stretched and you're looking to take and saturate a 4th/5th. I have nfi why someone who plays the game at a good level would choose not to use them beyond some combination of stubbornness, ignorance or laziness. C'mon, it's like saying : you won't up into GM if you don't use them, with if false. I don't need it to saturate my bases when there is a magic "base camera rotation" button that does it for me. It happened a lot of time that I outmacroed some GM's. I know that if I want to up into GM, I have other things much more important to correct than start using camera hotkey, that will annoy me more than anything because I don't have 200 APM and I already have some trouble managing 3 army control when I play vs P, if you add camera in the lot, I'm gonna mess everything up.
Drop defense, expanding, chrono, warpin and micro are faster with camera hotkeys. It makes actions take less apm. So really every player should consider it.
Though unless you plan to win wcs you should think about what is most fun.
For me sjow is an idra qxc destiny type. At least after this stunt.
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Well, with the amount of balance whine he made in his streaming sessions in the first few days ("oh so easy", "never should've won that", "P imba" all the time while still in Plat), I can't help but smile just a little at his failure to break out of masters.
One would think that this would quiet the anti-P balance whiners just a little, but, alas, judging by a lot of posts in this thread, his failed adventure didn't lead to rethinking for some people.
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On December 14 2013 01:42 ACrow wrote:
Well, with the amount of balance whine he made in his streaming sessions in the first few days ("oh so easy", "never should've won that", "P imba" all the time while still in Plat), I can't help but smile just a little at his failure to break out of masters.
One would think that this would quiet the anti-P balance whiners just a little, but, alas, judging by a lot of posts in this thread, his failed adventure didn't lead to rethinking for some people.
actually the responses like yours are just as bad, in a different way, and far more condescending.
being so defensive to the point of jumping all over him for quitting, and needing to say 1000+ times that its a failure, is very telling of self-perception. i dont even think it was a failure at all...and he could have kept going. his MMR was less than 100 points from GM. I think he realized it takes longer to get good at a race. If he wants to think PvT is imba that is separate from him 'quitting' this experiment.
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You did a very interesting experiment there Sjow! Cool art!
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It feels more than a bit lame that he isn't seeing through the month but I understand why.
Still, you PROMISED!
And that's why it's stupid for people to even make promises. 
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Not surprising. TvT is a lot more stable and less fragile when compared to PvP and ZvZ. Everytime I was offracing to test other races out, I was enjoying it up until the point where I started getting mirror matchups frequently. ZvZ felt volatile, PvP felt too much like rock paper scissors (this was in WoL though...) I'm not sure about the state of ZvZ and PvP now but from what I've seen at least TvT hasn't changed that much.
EDIT:
Also SjoW, you should've had the balls to go through with the "1 month thing" nonetheless, disappointed in you son.
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sorry sjow that it didnt work, knew it would happen this way because pvp is the only reason I didnt change to protoss aswell, sucha disgusting matchup that makes me want to puke every time I even see it
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On December 14 2013 01:49 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 01:42 ACrow wrote:
Well, with the amount of balance whine he made in his streaming sessions in the first few days ("oh so easy", "never should've won that", "P imba" all the time while still in Plat), I can't help but smile just a little at his failure to break out of masters.
One would think that this would quiet the anti-P balance whiners just a little, but, alas, judging by a lot of posts in this thread, his failed adventure didn't lead to rethinking for some people. actually the responses like yours are just as bad, in a different way, and far more condescending. being so defensive to the point of jumping all over him for quitting, and needing to say 1000+ times that its a failure, is very telling of self-perception. i dont even think it was a failure at all...and he could have kept going. his MMR was less than 100 points from GM. I think he realized it takes longer to get good at a race. If he wants to think PvT is imba that is separate from him 'quitting' this experiment.
Nah, Acrows post was fine. Sjow did a ton of imba whining the opening days of his stream and then he quit when he got to the tough part of playing Protoss. He says in his post the he could have made it f he practiced more and got coaching. He found out Protoss wasn't the ez pz Amove race and quit when it got hard to win.
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I think a lot of the whining was joking/having fun with the chat. But TvP is very frustrating, so I'm sure there is some genuine animosity.
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I almost wish you didn't post this, what a sad bunch of reactions in here.
Anyway, glad you're back to terran, hopefully playing Protoss was usefull for your TvP.
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On December 13 2013 22:26 Liquid`Ret wrote:
SjoW, I will have to show you soon I can get Terran GM in less than 2 weeks.
gogo liquid ret... gogo play and stream terran to gm! ;D
if u can ;P ... i doubt
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I certainly enjoyed your experiment and I would be happy to see other progamers switch side now and then! When are you going to play zerg? I'm sure there is more to learn!
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EPT
