HotS Balance Update - November 11 - Page 43

On November 13 2013 05:34 Big J wrote:


I played tons of games today as Terran and meched in ZvT on Derelicted, New StarStation and Vestige. Can't tell whether it's the upgrades or just the fact that none of my opponents was clever enough to go Vipers (though I faced Broodlords and Ultras), but just from how it felt tanks felt quite good against roaches and swarm hosts.
I think especially against the latter the little buff shows, since there is really a difference in amount of shots you get off against locusts.

Not sure if it is enough to make Mech a real viable macro option, since blinding cloud just stomps you anytime you are not well-spread (and chances are that you sometimes are, since you need to move at some point). But yeah, I think the difference (of both buffs together at least) is noticeable.

While I haven't yet noticed a huge difference in my mine play (sometimes mutas are a little less softened from the looks of it, but all my opponents still behave the same way when engaging mines - try not to run into them and when they do it really hurts them). But haven't played around with bio too much today, only on Alterzim, and there I don't mine push but just shiftclick medivacs for 40mins and hope my opponent dies before I have to take a 5th which is basically impossible if he is any good with mutas.

On November 13 2013 05:40 Pitrocelli wrote:
When is this patch going to be alive ? ( on EU server)

On November 13 2013 04:36 Fus wrote:
Oracles doesnt need a speed buff imo, they gonna be so annoying in pvp and they were already fast

On November 13 2013 05:34 Big J wrote:
I played tons of games today as Terran and meched in ZvT on Derelicted, New StarStation and Vestige. Can't tell whether it's the upgrades or just the fact that none of my opponents was clever enough to go Vipers (though I faced Broodlords and Ultras), but just from how it felt tanks felt quite good against roaches and swarm hosts.

On November 13 2013 05:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:
At this point, after 2 years and pages and pages of mindless community balance whine, Blizzard has at earned the benefit of the doubt that they are more knowledgeable about their game than random forum posters...and even most pro players.

On November 13 2013 05:04 GrimEpilogue wrote:


No worries mate- the problem with the Voidray is that it's a slow and bulky unit that requires an observer on its back to clean creep spread. In short- you'll get a 275/225 unit whose damage output is relatively low and has a hard time escaping from defensive maneuvers without sacrificing a large portion of your efficiency by fleeing early. (Note: Creep cleaning means you're on creep- thus fast enemy units.)

The problem with the oracle is energy. That's it. It's a fast as tits unit with immense damage output that can potentially provide its own detection- it costs 150/150 (172/225 if you want an observer to up your clean up frequency). The speed of an oracle is so absurd, in part due to this patch, you can actually continue cleaning even as defensive measures are being taken against you, by adding more micro-intensive unit control.

So what's the creep cleaning dynamic? Creep tumors are spread en masse and multiply quite quickly (unless you're constantly pressing and forcing your opponent to adapt their Queen use)- they're all connected so Zerg units can be allocated at an alarming pace. No matter how fast your unit, you will be chased away. So not only is speed important to get in and out- you also need raw DPS so that you're not merely cleaning half a tumor stack without actually reducing creep spread. Zerg units that will chase you out are a) hydras b) mutas. Hydra DPS will deny a VR escape (too slow to run, and DPS counters its bulky nature) if caught / Mutas are much faster than VRs. Hydras are slower than oracles, even on creep- and muta speed is matched due to the new patch. In this case the oracle wins clearly.

Then again- e=0.5t+50-b(1.9t+25), e=energy / t=time in seconds / b = 0 for pulsar off, 1 for pulsar on, 50 = starting energy. Adding the -50 energy for anti-stealth vision you do indeed get significant limitations. If a Zerg catches you as you initiate creep cleaning you've pretty much wasted 150+ in-game seconds for barely any clean-up. (75=0.5t) So what are the practical limitations of this? You can't clean near a Zerg army position- then again, neither can the Voidray (due to reasons mentioned earlier). Furthermore, while your cleaning is faster- there's a fairly massive cooldown. I dare say you need at least 103 energy to get a solid amount of cleaning done, 103=0.5t, t=206. That's one potential 20 second run every 3.5 minutes.

( TL;DR: ) Do I want safe and fast, yet infrequent creep cleaning? Oracle. Do I want riskier, slower but far more dispensable creep cleaning? Voidray. Something that should help you decide is answering what you want to take away from the Zerg- if you're simply pushing creep away slowly but surely, or trying to create an artificial limit to its spread near your own base presence, Voidray is the more natural option. However, if you want to hop into the middle of an infested area and pretty much incinerate every tumor there so you can go and muscle through a timing- the answer is oracle.

On November 13 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:

This thread has gone to full amazing:

Poster 1: "I don't notice any difference in the tanks"

Poster 2:"Some people have said they are pretty strong in the right situations"

Poster 1:"those people are fucking liars!"

That some high level shit right there.

On November 13 2013 05:55 Crownlol wrote:


We're sitting in a QQ circlejerk thread man. I've made so many posts for Terrans to just try the new tanks before they whine about it on TL, and I just get met with "PROTOSS SCUM HAS NO IDEA".

On November 13 2013 06:00 Ctone23 wrote:



Yea and calling people out in posts really helps as well.....

I play Terran, and I can confirm that Immortals are still strong vs Tanks.

On November 13 2013 05:34 Big J wrote:


I played tons of games today as Terran and meched in ZvT on Derelicted, New StarStation and Vestige. Can't tell whether it's the upgrades or just the fact that none of my opponents was clever enough to go Vipers (though I faced Broodlords and Ultras), but just from how it felt tanks felt quite good against roaches and swarm hosts.
I think especially against the latter the little buff shows, since there is really a difference in amount of shots you get off against locusts.

Not sure if it is enough to make Mech a real viable macro option, since blinding cloud just stomps you anytime you are not well-spread (and chances are that you sometimes are, since you need to move at some point). But yeah, I think the difference (of both buffs together at least) is noticeable.

While I haven't yet noticed a huge difference in my mine play (sometimes mutas are a little less softened from the looks of it, but all my opponents still behave the same way when engaging mines - try not to run into them and when they do it really hurts them). But haven't played around with bio too much today, only on Alterzim, and there I don't mine push but just shiftclick medivacs for 40mins and hope my opponent dies before I have to take a 5th which is basically impossible if he is any good with mutas.

On November 13 2013 06:00 Ctone23 wrote:



Yea and calling people out in posts really helps as well.....

I play Terran, and I can confirm that Immortals are still strong vs Tanks.

On November 13 2013 06:10 Snusmumriken wrote:


What league are you? The reason Im asking is because all the things you mentioned, tanks were already good against. The real problems with mech has never been roaches lol, the problem with mech is that it has superhardcounters in vipers and almost all things protoss as well as the tanks being shitty in lownumbers and when unsieged. Theyve always been good when you got 20 of them and siege up and avoid hardcounters. Except if you play vs protoss. I should know, I play master mech.

On November 13 2013 06:05 Qikz wrote:
Watching streams is hilarious because all these terrans are too stubborn to get turrets despite scouting double gas every single time.

Turrets are only 100 minerals guys, don't complain about balance and build turrets like I used to as mech.