EPTRevival DESERVED a seed; he's the reigning CHAMP for goodness sake, and instead they gave seeds to Flash and TLO with ZERO explanation. They have said that those 4 wildcard spots are based on points, so why would Flash even be considered? And Revival surely should have been offered the spot before TLO due to higher point ranking.
ForGG forfeits IEM New York, replaced by Revival - Page 6
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Dragoonstorm7
United States599 Posts
Revival DESERVED a seed; he's the reigning CHAMP for goodness sake, and instead they gave seeds to Flash and TLO with ZERO explanation. They have said that those 4 wildcard spots are based on points, so why would Flash even be considered? And Revival surely should have been offered the spot before TLO due to higher point ranking. | ||
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Abacus1
Australia45 Posts
They didn't. They asked Grubby BEFORE forGG forfeited for a spot in the open bracket. After forGG forfeited, they went straight to Revival. And where did Nerchio say he didn't take the spot (assuming he was asked) because he didn't like to fly out of EU? Revival was not suddenly asked after Forgg was unable to attend. He was on a list of people who said they would take any non-paid place in the tournament back at the beginning. Grubby and Nercio were asked at the same point and declined the option. Yes, the situation has changed and they could've gone back to them after finding out Forgg was unable to attend, but writing it this way makes it sound like they suddenly went to Revival and offered him a decision based on the current seed he got. He would've taken a position into any bracket based on the fact that he applied in the beginning. I'd be interested to know why Grubby and Nerchio wouldn't have put their name down for the list initially. Is the difference between the seed and the open bracket so large that it was make or break for the cost of the flight? I wouldn't pretend to know the details of such a decision but I'd be interested to learn why. Obviously Revival has an interest in taking any chance he can get for WCS points so it makes sense that he would take any spot. | ||
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ContrailNZ
New Zealand306 Posts
Koreans winning EU and NA spots. SC2 has killed itself. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On October 08 2013 09:49 Dragoonstorm7 wrote: They have said that those 4 wildcard spots are based on points, so why would Flash even be considered? Inviting Flash before Revival makes sense if you consider they want people to watch the tournament. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote: This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often. Koreans winning EU and NA spots. SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. | ||
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painkilla
United States695 Posts
On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote: Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. This is actually a good point. All that talk about game design/ catering to the casuals. Maybe just because foreigners are too far behind Koreans. The first WCS finals of Mvp vs Stephano had 120k viewers. SC2 would be a lot more popular if the foreigners could be at least code A level. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Wonder why Revival was on that list though, since he declined the Wildcard seed offer. Something people found funny before, since Revival is the champion and didn't get a seed. Shows how tight the schedules are this year. Guess he thought he wouldn't need IEM and wants to be save now. Good to see ESL sticking to their system in case of forfeits. As for that we want foreigners. Doubt alot of new talents will emerge in Korea with them being all doom and gloom over there. If that keeps up, foreigners can catch up or atleast zerg Koreans down again. Especially since the Kespa taking over panic is gone after it failed and they are preparing the pull out. So they have less pressure train there now. (except the ones that want on foreign teams) | ||
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Dragoonstorm7
United States599 Posts
On October 08 2013 14:08 FeyFey wrote: So next time Grubby knows he can be evil and say he wants an unpayed trip spot if it is available and only take it if it suits him, but I like the nice Grubby more. Wonder why Revival was on that list though, since he declined the Wildcard seed offer. Something people found funny before, since Revival is the champion and didn't get a seed. Shows how tight the schedules are this year. Guess he thought he wouldn't need IEM and wants to be save now. Good to see ESL sticking to their system in case of forfeits. As for that we want foreigners. Doubt alot of new talents will emerge in Korea with them being all doom and gloom over there. If that keeps up, foreigners can catch up or atleast zerg Koreans down again. Especially since the Kespa taking over panic is gone after it failed and they are preparing the pull out. So they have less pressure train there now. (except the ones that want on foreign teams) I wasnt aware he denied it originally, do you have a link? | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On October 08 2013 06:09 JustPassingBy wrote: I dare say that whoever wants to take ForGG's place can afford it. That may be the case, but it is not the point discussion. I'm saying the IEM organization is poor if there is no contingency for this. I'm not complaining about Nerchio or Grubby refusing to pay for a ticket and get a spot in the main tournament, but it doesn't look like they got the offer in any case. | ||
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
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ContrailNZ
New Zealand306 Posts
On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote: Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. Your argument makes no sense. You realize that paying a lot of money so Koreans can play in the early rounds only makes the domination even worse? NA / EU players can beat any Korean players occasionally, but not the huge amount needed to go deep in tournaments now. It makes even less sense to pay money for people to attend tournaments when this makes them so much more expensive to run. Or do EU / NA tournaments advertise a lot of Korean products.... Comparing SC2 to sports.... 95% of people follow their local / national teams not overseas countries teams that speak little English. A few teams like a few players manage international success, but htey are the exception (like MC does) You raise a good point though. If i follow European players and they never progress far because they are versus huge amounts of Korean players why would I and many others watch............. oh wait.... we don't watch... | ||
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documents
Armenia3 Posts
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On October 08 2013 09:49 Dragoonstorm7 wrote: While this situation wasnt handled well, the outcome isnt terrible, tho its not great either. Revival DESERVED a seed; he's the reigning CHAMP for goodness sake, and instead they gave seeds to Flash and TLO with ZERO explanation. They have said that those 4 wildcard spots are based on points, so why would Flash even be considered? And Revival surely should have been offered the spot before TLO due to higher point ranking. You fail to understand how IEM works. They have never gave invite to reigning champion. Go to IEM website and they tell same there. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote: Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. Replace "nature of humanity" with "nature of western teams" and I agree to a certain extent.  Anyways, on topic. I wonder whether we'll see another statement from an ESL official. They were relatively quick with their first response. edit: and I agree with not fielding the previous champ. Don't get fooled by the huge prize pool, the incredible lineup of players and the overwhelming production value. Each IEM tournament is in of itself a qualification tournament for an even bigger event. The true champion of IEM will be crowned at the world finals. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote: Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. What you say makes sense, however IEM describes itself as a tournament that invites players from "all over the world", always seeking for a global representation. NA and EU qualifiers spots are meant to be given to NA/EU players and/or players who reside in those regions. A korean residing in France (ForGG) is allowed to take part in the EU qualifier, however when he drops you would expect IEM to be coherent with its own philosophy and invite the next player on the list (Nerchio) rather than randomly inviting a player like Revival who played the KR qualifier. | ||
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Ketch
Netherlands7285 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 08 2013 20:09 Ketch wrote: Wat bugs me is that these explanations should come with the announcement, instead of being posted later on Reddit... ah well Well, so far there has only been one explanation, and the one ESL official probably posted it prematurely hoping that it explains everything, which it did not. Happens to me all the time, when I think I finished my work properly and then notice all sorts of mistake in it.  | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote: This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often. Koreans winning EU and NA spots. SC2 has killed itself. Im the opposite, I rather see highest level play, no matter what country is the players origin. | ||
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On October 08 2013 18:51 Fjodorov wrote: IEM twisting the words to justify giving the spot to revival. Obviously its a very different situation now than when they asked grubby if he wanted a unpaid spot in the open bracket. I suppose EG has alot of strings they can pull and they take care of their players and thats their job but I thought IEM had a bit more integrity than this. Please stop with the retarded conspiracy theories here. Take that shit somewhere else. It would probably be better for IEM to have a popular foreigner like Grubby there raher than having another second class korean. They made a mistake when they reviewed the list of people accepting unpaid invites by not realizing the list was originally for invites to the Dual tournament and not Ro16. That doesn't mean the Esports mafia is run by EG. | ||
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