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From intelextrememasters.com:
UPDATE: ForGG is not able to attend the event and his spot will be taken by Revival instead. The Group Graphic below has been updated accordingly.
source: IEM
update 1
On October 07 2013 22:55 Otolia wrote:According to Millenium, he is scheduled to visit the french immigration offices in order for him to have a 1 year working permit. Very bitter when you see that other teams aren't doing the same for their players ... Source Millenium
more details:
On October 08 2013 01:41 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:34 HereBeDragons wrote:I've been through the French immigration system before. I obviously don't have the details, but I'm guessing that he is transitioning from a "Long/Short-stay Visa" to a "Residence Card." If this is the case then this magic card would be equivalent to a schengen visa, except it's 1 year long. (Multiple years are harder to apply for). The rules changes every year (figuratively speaking), but generally renewing your residence card is less of a hassle than asking for a new visa. Depending on which city he lives in, each appointment with the immigration services can be 1hour or sometimes 6hours!  This guy is right. ForGG will become (to my knowledge) the only Korean Starcraft 2 player with legitimate working contract and permit. He sacrificed much of his season to get to that point so let's hope 2014 will be kinder on him.
update 2
Nazaroth wrote:
In answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion.
source: www.reddit.com/r/starcraft
update 3
Grubby wrote:
I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck
source: www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/
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China6327 Posts
So he is out of BlizzCon?
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updated op to link to IEM rather than gosugamers who links to IEM.
edit: I wonder what the reason is, I hope it is nothing health related. 
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According to Millenium, he is scheduled to visit the french immigration offices in order for him to have a 1 year working permit.
Very bitter when you see that other teams aren't doing the same for their players ...
Source Millenium
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On October 07 2013 22:51 digmouse wrote:
So he is out of BlizzCon?
If I remember correctly, he would be out of BlizzCon with anything less than 2nd place, and even a 2nd place or higher wouldn't guarantee his spot (if he won IEM, it would only increase his chance to 40%).
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Well, he gets his working permit. That's a good thing.
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Why revival? Shouldnt nerchio take his place since nerchio finished 3rd at the qualifiers? What a stupid replacement.
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I think replacements at IEM are taken from WCS ranking. (as i recall it was the same case last IEM with someone)
I don't get it either...but maybe nerchio couldn't go aswell?
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32 players only 5 terrans TT
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On October 07 2013 23:08 AzBozz wrote:
32 players only 5 terrans TT
so you're saying it's an average tournament
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On October 07 2013 23:10 mechengineer123 wrote:so you're saying it's an average tournament
It would be average if it were a foreign tournament, which this is not... ;;
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one less terran...
God help us.
still kinda cool if he can get a working permit.
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Cool that ForGG is getting replaced, but I don't know exactly why they chose Revival? My guess is that they probably looked at the WCS Rankings and took the one that was available and highest points.
Logically the one replacing ForGG should be Nerchio who came 3rd in the EU Qualifier (Behind NaNiwa and ForGG).
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ForGG missed 2 DreamHacks, 1 ASUS ROG, 1 HomeStory Cup, basically 1 WCS season and now 1 IEM because of his visa. The last three months have been a nightmare for him although he could have had very good chances in every single of these tournaments. This is just sad. Thank you french administration, please never change.
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On October 07 2013 23:08 AzBozz wrote:
32 players only 5 terrans TT
And a Terran will take it, seems normal.
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On October 07 2013 23:22 Aynophae wrote:And a Terran will take it, seems normal.
LOL.
Basically, this.
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yay Revival ! But really sad for ForGG at the same time :<
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Big shame ForGG won't play ):
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On October 07 2013 23:22 Aynophae wrote:And a Terran will take it, seems normal.
yeah, the lesser terrans there are the higher chances they have to take a tournament ~
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If Revival takes the direct seed into the group stages I think NaNiwa is pretty screwed for Blizzcon.
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D: Visas are ESPORTS enemy #1. Disappointing Good luck to both ForGG and Revival!
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On October 07 2013 23:28 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 23:22 Aynophae wrote:On October 07 2013 23:08 AzBozz wrote:
32 players only 5 terrans TT And a Terran will take it, seems normal. LOL. Basically, this.
Pretty much. For all the complaining about lack of representation they win a hell of a lot of tournaments.
Standard SC2 tournament all round.
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On October 07 2013 23:36 slowbacontron wrote:D: Visas are ESPORTS enemy #1. Disappointing Good luck to both ForGG and Revival!
eh, please read op.
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Shame ForGG won't be attending, but at least he is getting a visa which could be better for him in the long run 
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On October 07 2013 23:37 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 23:36 slowbacontron wrote:D: Visas are ESPORTS enemy #1. Disappointing Good luck to both ForGG and Revival! eh, please read op.
well I don't know what that "working permit" stuff means it is too complicated for me
I just generalize
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Damn, can't complain about the replacement but I really wanted to see ForGG play in this one...
And I guess that means he's defo out of the picture for blizzcon
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Too bad for ForGG, though the replacement is decent enough.
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On October 07 2013 23:21 Boucot wrote:
ForGG missed 2 DreamHacks, 1 ASUS ROG, 1 HomeStory Cup, basically 1 WCS season and now 1 IEM because of his visa. The last three months have been a nightmare for him although he could have had very good chances in every single of these tournaments. This is just sad. Thank you french administration, please never change.
T_T
I really want to thank the french administration, they are so good...
Poor ForGG. :/
Atleast we could see him at DH Winter if he qualifies.
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United States23455 Posts
So this puts the nail in the coffin for ForGG making Blizzcon. It greatly increases Revival's chances though. So go Revival I guess!
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Revival? Did he played EU qualifier? What a weird replacement
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This is fate.
YES, Revival, lay waste to the motley crew of pathetic terran scum! Shatter their foundations ^^.
(And kill all the other lesser Zergs).
Viva la vida (uh oh)!
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Manuel Schenkhuizen @followgrubby
Wow is this fair? @ForGG1 cancels @IEM NY which he quali for thru EU qualis and @AcerNerchio and I (3rd/4th) don't even get asked to replace
!... these seedings are so important sometimes and so random as well, why was Revival chosen?
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On October 08 2013 00:48 Ketch wrote:Show nested quote + Manuel Schenkhuizen @followgrubby
Wow is this fair? @ForGG1 cancels @IEM NY which he quali for thru EU qualis and @AcerNerchio and I (3rd/4th) don't even get asked to replace !... these seedings are so important sometimes and so random as well, why was Revival chosen?
One apparently obvious reason is because revival still has chances for BlizzCon.
And I am saying "apparently", because this is IEM, not a Blizzcon qualifier.
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So sad, it was his last chance to make it to the Blizzcon
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go go revival! Last time i watch his stream, he is playing better than before and improving quite fast :D
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wth, why revival? how unfair is that to the Europeans...
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that's really stupid they choose revival. He didn't even try qualifying through eu.........They should give the spot to the next place finishers from that qualifier. It's only fair.
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Pretty lame they didn't pick Grubby or Nerchio...
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Interesting that they replaced a player that qualified through the European qualifier with someone that wasn't in the European qualifier. This changes a lot for Rivival. With 3025 points, in all likeliness he would have fell below the top 16 point ranking, but now he has a chance to make top 16 if he can get at least 2nd place at IEM new york.
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Revival won the previous IEM in Shanghai. I would assume this is why he has been given the final place. Makes sense.
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United States23455 Posts
Revival is the defending IEM champion which may have impacted his seed.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Defending champ makes some sense though I'm not entirely on board with it
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I respect Grubby a lot, but how do they choose between him and Nerchio in terms of asking to replace? Defending champion seems like a pretty standard thing considering how close we are to the event and the lateness at which Forgg couldn't attend. If it wasn't for the closeness of WCS points with Blizzcon right around the corner, I can't see anyone complaining about the defending champ getting the invite. GL Revival!
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On October 08 2013 01:09 Abacus1 wrote:
Revival won the previous IEM in Shanghai. I would assume this is why he has been given the final place. Makes sense.
On October 08 2013 01:10 Darkhoarse wrote:
Revival is the defending IEM champion which may have impacted his seed.
On October 08 2013 01:11 lichter wrote:
Defending champ makes some sense though I'm not entirely on board with it
Doesn't make sense to me, imo. If defending champion were a factor, then they would've invited him right away, without the need of him participating in a qualifier. Also, this is not how IEM works. IEM hosts tournaments all around the globe where players can qualify for, and depending on the results of these tournaments, players will be invited to a global final.
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On October 08 2013 01:14 Abacus1 wrote:
I respect Grubby a lot, but how do they choose between him and Nerchio in terms of asking to replace? Defending champion seems like a pretty standard thing considering how close we are to the event and the lateness at which Forgg couldn't attend. If it wasn't for the closeness of WCS points with Blizzcon right around the corner, I can't see anyone complaining about the defending champ getting the invite. GL Revival!
The IEM qualifier was, at least in the later stages, a double elim bracket. That means Nerchio who placed #3 there should be asked first. In fact, he beat Grubby in a bo3 to place #3.
source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VIII_-_New_York/European_Qualifier
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Doesn't make sense to me, imo. If defending champion were a factor, then they would've invited him right away, without the need of him participating in a qualifier. Also, this is not how IEM works. IEM hosts tournaments all around the globe where players can qualify for, and depending on the results of these tournaments, players will be invited to a global final.
I understand what you're saying, but we're not really keyed into how recent they found out Forgg was unable to attend. Alternatively they could've possibly held a decider match between Nerchio and Grubby online. Either way, makes WCS points very interesting coming up to the end of the season 3 finals.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:15 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:09 Abacus1 wrote:
Revival won the previous IEM in Shanghai. I would assume this is why he has been given the final place. Makes sense. Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:10 Darkhoarse wrote:
Revival is the defending IEM champion which may have impacted his seed. Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:11 lichter wrote:
Defending champ makes some sense though I'm not entirely on board with it Doesn't make sense to me, imo. If defending champion were a factor, then they would've invited him right away, without the need of him participating in a qualifier. Also, this is not how IEM works. IEM hosts tournaments all around the globe where players can qualify for, and depending on the results of these tournaments, players will be invited to a global final.
It makes sense because you'd like to have the reigning champ return to defend his title. It gives tournaments continuity. But as I said I'm not entirely on board with it since it doesn't follow any precedent in IEM, who have never given direct seeds to former champions afaik. Defending champs being invited makes sense, but in this case there were other options that should have received priority.
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On October 08 2013 01:20 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:15 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 08 2013 01:09 Abacus1 wrote:
Revival won the previous IEM in Shanghai. I would assume this is why he has been given the final place. Makes sense. On October 08 2013 01:10 Darkhoarse wrote:
Revival is the defending IEM champion which may have impacted his seed. On October 08 2013 01:11 lichter wrote:
Defending champ makes some sense though I'm not entirely on board with it Doesn't make sense to me, imo. If defending champion were a factor, then they would've invited him right away, without the need of him participating in a qualifier. Also, this is not how IEM works. IEM hosts tournaments all around the globe where players can qualify for, and depending on the results of these tournaments, players will be invited to a global final. It makes sense because you'd like to have the reigning champ return to defend his title. It gives tournaments continuity. But as I said I'm not entirely on board with it since it doesn't follow any precedent in IEM, who have never given direct seeds to former champions afaik. Defending champs being invited makes sense, but in this case there were other options that should have received priority.
Makes sense in terms of marketing. Not fairness to players.
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On October 08 2013 01:20 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:15 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 08 2013 01:09 Abacus1 wrote:
Revival won the previous IEM in Shanghai. I would assume this is why he has been given the final place. Makes sense. On October 08 2013 01:10 Darkhoarse wrote:
Revival is the defending IEM champion which may have impacted his seed. On October 08 2013 01:11 lichter wrote:
Defending champ makes some sense though I'm not entirely on board with it Doesn't make sense to me, imo. If defending champion were a factor, then they would've invited him right away, without the need of him participating in a qualifier. Also, this is not how IEM works. IEM hosts tournaments all around the globe where players can qualify for, and depending on the results of these tournaments, players will be invited to a global final. It makes sense because you'd like to have the reigning champ return to defend his title. It gives tournaments continuity. But as I said I'm not entirely on board with it since it doesn't follow any precedent in IEM, who have never given direct seeds to former champions afaik. Defending champs being invited makes sense, but in this case there were other options that should have received priority.
Yeah agree with you even tho it don't help anything
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From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8d
In answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion.
[edit:formatting]
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United States97276 Posts
I guess the reddit statement makes sense. Thanks for posting it
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Ok, that clears things up. Makes sense if the ticket is non refundable. Regrettable but logical to give priority for players that accept unpaid slots.
That should be edited into the OP to avoid more discussion about fairness.
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I've been through the French immigration system before. I obviously don't have the details, but I'm guessing that he is transitioning from a "Long/Short-stay Visa" to a "Residence Card." If this is the case then this magic card would be equivalent to a schengen visa, except it's 1 year long. (Multiple years are harder to apply for). The rules changes every year (figuratively speaking), but generally renewing your residence card is less of a hassle than asking for a new visa.
Depending on which city he lives in, each appointment with the immigration services can be 1hour or sometimes 6hours!
This is a good thing, getting a residence card solidifies your legal status of living in France, so we'll be sure that ForGG won't be countering weird "Oh-shit-my-visa-expired" scenarios if the team management stays on top of the papers for renewing each year.
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edit: nevermind, it was explained on reddit.
+ Show Spoiler +The defending/previous champion thing cannot possibly be the reason why, it has no value in the qualification process. The qualification setup can be read here There's basically only 2 ways to get qualified; - National qualifier (NY: "four slots will go to The Americas, two to Europe and two to Asia") - WCS point based apply/invitation (officially 4 players) I personally think the whole WCS point thing was a mistake from the beginning.
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Not sure about "the price of doing so is not insignificant", I can find last minute flights from Frankfurt to New York for the dates of the tournament for less than 500€ and I only searched for two minutes.
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On October 08 2013 01:34 HereBeDragons wrote:I've been through the French immigration system before. I obviously don't have the details, but I'm guessing that he is transitioning from a "Long/Short-stay Visa" to a "Residence Card." If this is the case then this magic card would be equivalent to a schengen visa, except it's 1 year long. (Multiple years are harder to apply for). The rules changes every year (figuratively speaking), but generally renewing your residence card is less of a hassle than asking for a new visa. Depending on which city he lives in, each appointment with the immigration services can be 1hour or sometimes 6hours!
This guy is right. ForGG will become (to my knowledge) the only Korean Starcraft 2 player with legitimate working contract and permit. He sacrificed much of his season to get to that point so let's hope 2014 will be kinder on him.
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On October 08 2013 01:41 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:34 HereBeDragons wrote:I've been through the French immigration system before. I obviously don't have the details, but I'm guessing that he is transitioning from a "Long/Short-stay Visa" to a "Residence Card." If this is the case then this magic card would be equivalent to a schengen visa, except it's 1 year long. (Multiple years are harder to apply for). The rules changes every year (figuratively speaking), but generally renewing your residence card is less of a hassle than asking for a new visa. Depending on which city he lives in, each appointment with the immigration services can be 1hour or sometimes 6hours! This guy is right. ForGG will become (to my knowledge) the only Korean Starcraft 2 player with legitimate working contract and permit. He sacrificed much of his season to get to that point so let's hope 2014 will be kinder on him.
So how secure are the sources of your knowledge, might be interesting to edit this piece of information to the op.
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On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dShow nested quote +In answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion.
Now its even more fucked.
Grubby:
"I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck"
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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This is pretty embarrassing.
I can't help but point out how this can be seen as a "fuck you" to Naniwa, who has spent a lot of time trash-talking IEM. It's hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seem obvious that using revival as the replacement is down to relationships, not tournament logic or a comprehensive survey of availability of possible replacements.
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Noo~~~~No ForGG to support
Is Flash going New York?
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The climb Scarlett has to make during WCS NA depends on how well Revival does.
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On October 08 2013 01:50 m0ck wrote:
This is pretty embarrassing.
I can't help but point out how this can be seen as a "fuck you" to Naniwa, who has spent a lot of time trash-talking IEM. It's hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seem obvious that using revival as the replacement is down to relationships, not tournament logic or a comprehensive survey of availability of possible replacements.
Why is this a "fuck you" to Naniwa? He is still playing and his group did not change at all. :o
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On October 08 2013 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:50 m0ck wrote:
This is pretty embarrassing.
I can't help but point out how this can be seen as a "fuck you" to Naniwa, who has spent a lot of time trash-talking IEM. It's hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seem obvious that using revival as the replacement is down to relationships, not tournament logic or a comprehensive survey of availability of possible replacements. Why is this a "fuck you" to Naniwa? He is still playing and his group did not change at all. :o
They are both in the run in for the last spots for the world finals
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On October 08 2013 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:50 m0ck wrote:
This is pretty embarrassing.
I can't help but point out how this can be seen as a "fuck you" to Naniwa, who has spent a lot of time trash-talking IEM. It's hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seem obvious that using revival as the replacement is down to relationships, not tournament logic or a comprehensive survey of availability of possible replacements. Why is this a "fuck you" to Naniwa? He is still playing and his group did not change at all. :o
Because Revival is in the tournament and he could gain some WCS points.
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Absolutely lame that there is conflicting information regarding open bracket vs main tournament slots. It makes the tournament look bad for a short period and everyone will forget about it once IEM starts and finishes.
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Ughhh, it'll be sad to not see him there, but him having a working visa in France is more important than a tournament.
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On October 08 2013 01:58 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 08 2013 01:50 m0ck wrote:
This is pretty embarrassing.
I can't help but point out how this can be seen as a "fuck you" to Naniwa, who has spent a lot of time trash-talking IEM. It's hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seem obvious that using revival as the replacement is down to relationships, not tournament logic or a comprehensive survey of availability of possible replacements. Why is this a "fuck you" to Naniwa? He is still playing and his group did not change at all. :o They are both in the run for last spots for the world finals
I totally picture naniwa hanging on a cliff and refusing to get help because he doesn't want to shake hands.
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On October 08 2013 02:00 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:58 m0ck wrote:On October 08 2013 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 08 2013 01:50 m0ck wrote:
This is pretty embarrassing.
I can't help but point out how this can be seen as a "fuck you" to Naniwa, who has spent a lot of time trash-talking IEM. It's hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seem obvious that using revival as the replacement is down to relationships, not tournament logic or a comprehensive survey of availability of possible replacements. Why is this a "fuck you" to Naniwa? He is still playing and his group did not change at all. :o They are both in the run for last spots for the world finals I totally picture naniwa hanging on a cliff and refusing to get help because he doesn't want to shake hands.
"I'll give you my handshake when you pry it from my cold, dead hands."
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On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck"
IEM better have a good answer to grubby's statement or else there are going to be people with pitchforks.
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Pretty lucky for Revival as it keeps his Blizzcon hopes alive.
5 Terrans so maybe only 2 in the top 4?
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On October 08 2013 01:58 Aeromi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 08 2013 01:50 m0ck wrote:
This is pretty embarrassing.
I can't help but point out how this can be seen as a "fuck you" to Naniwa, who has spent a lot of time trash-talking IEM. It's hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seem obvious that using revival as the replacement is down to relationships, not tournament logic or a comprehensive survey of availability of possible replacements. Why is this a "fuck you" to Naniwa? He is still playing and his group did not change at all. :o Because Revival is in the tournament and he could gain some WCS points.
Ah well, that certainly sucks for Naniwa. However since I didn't see WCS points as a reason to include Revival, I also don't see them as a reason to exclude him.
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Gonna laugh my ass off if Revival ends up going to Blizzcon instead of Naniwa.
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Some ppl working really hard to qualify and get a shot at the points and others are just invited. The whole system is silly to say the least.
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On October 08 2013 01:43 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:41 Otolia wrote:On October 08 2013 01:34 HereBeDragons wrote:I've been through the French immigration system before. I obviously don't have the details, but I'm guessing that he is transitioning from a "Long/Short-stay Visa" to a "Residence Card." If this is the case then this magic card would be equivalent to a schengen visa, except it's 1 year long. (Multiple years are harder to apply for). The rules changes every year (figuratively speaking), but generally renewing your residence card is less of a hassle than asking for a new visa. Depending on which city he lives in, each appointment with the immigration services can be 1hour or sometimes 6hours! This guy is right. ForGG will become (to my knowledge) the only Korean Starcraft 2 player with legitimate working contract and permit. He sacrificed much of his season to get to that point so let's hope 2014 will be kinder on him. So how secure are the sources of your knowledge, might be interesting to edit this piece of information to the op.
Highly secure. All the Millenium fans have been following the process like a Game of Thrones season.
Otherwise, I think VERY unfair the fact that Revival gets an invite rather than Nerchio or Grubby. There are already 4 invites based on WCS points and I think it's already a shame. But this is a really bad decision.
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Pretty clever by koreans. Now revival has change to get to blizzcon.
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To be clear, no one should be ripping on Revival for this. IEM offered him the spot, and he made the choice that was best for him and his career. You can't blame him for that.
That said, I agree it's pretty shady by IEM, but as a fan of Revival it's difficult for me to care that much.
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Im not a fan of revival, but screwing him up cause he took the spot is dumb. He just takes an oppurtunity for himself.
IEM should consider to let revival play without the chance of earning WCS points. Then revival has his chance to shine in the tournament and the WCS system is not affected.
And...ooooooohmmm, maybe Naniwa deserves it..... a little bit.....im gone.....
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On October 08 2013 03:50 Bjarne wrote:
Im not a fan of revival, but screwing him up cause he took the spot is dumb. He just takes an oppurtunity for himself.
IEM should consider to let revival play without the chance of earning WCS points. Then revival has his chance to shine in the tournament and the WCS system is not affected.
And...ooooooohmmm, maybe Naniwa deserves it..... a little bit.....im gone.....
He has to pay for the the ticket. If he could not earn WCS points, he might as well forfeit.
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Bad move by IEM, the player choice for the replacement is so blatant, I won't even go into that. It will give a lot of shit of publicity to ESL and their tournaments, its not like the player seeding to that tournament was controversial already.
However I would like to know Blizzard stance on this one, considering it is affecting their tournament. It is kind of giving Blizzard WCS points by third parties, to players of the third parties choice. I thought that people were supposed to have a fair competition in WCS system, not some corrupt, based on relations casting process.
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On October 08 2013 03:15 Weavel wrote:
Pretty clever by koreans. Now revival has change to get to blizzcon.
I have never seen a more stupid comment.
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This doesn't seem fair at all.
I'd like to summon Nerchio to give his testimony on the matters at hand.
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On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck"
Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals.
Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice.
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On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice.
As I said, took me two minutes to find a return ticket Frankfurt <-> New York with the matching dates for less than 500€.
I think it was especially cheap because last minute.
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On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice.
All plane tickets are non-transferable and non-refundable. You can pay substantially more for a transferable/refundable version.
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So EG players like to get free WCS points or what. First Alive now Revival. That EG connection. (Alive is ok though). This is pretty messed up as the EU hope in Naniwa just get screwed big time.
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The increase in the qualification chance for Blizzcon makes it very likely financially worthwhile for revival to participate.
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On October 08 2013 05:52 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice. All plane tickets are non-transferable and non-refundable. You can pay substantially more for a transferable/refundable version.
I just checked and it costs €120 to change a €988 ticket with Lufthansa. If you want to cancel it, it costs €180. I dare say IEM can afford this.
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On October 08 2013 06:06 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 05:52 Bigtony wrote:On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice. All plane tickets are non-transferable and non-refundable. You can pay substantially more for a transferable/refundable version. I just checked and it costs €120 to change a €988 ticket with Lufthansa. If you want to cancel it, it costs €180. I dare say IEM can afford this.
I dare say that whoever wants to take ForGG's place can afford it.
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On October 08 2013 06:09 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 06:06 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 05:52 Bigtony wrote:On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice. All plane tickets are non-transferable and non-refundable. You can pay substantially more for a transferable/refundable version. I just checked and it costs €120 to change a €988 ticket with Lufthansa. If you want to cancel it, it costs €180. I dare say IEM can afford this. I dare say that whoever wants to take ForGG's place can afford it.
nerchio nor grubby were never asked, pretty sure they'd take it otherwise
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Oh man, that's a shame. ForGG was my favorite player in that tournament and the EU representative. :/
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Bad news for Nani Why didn't he just go to DH....
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At the risk of sounding pitch-forky, I'm disappointed by the lack of response from ESL. Hell, even just having only 2 seeded players for Group D would be better because this screams favoritism.
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just stupid... i gotta hand it to the american government to give out regular sports visas to traditional and esports athletes likewise- at least in lol...
i hope we will soon have that for all countries and (e)sports.
come on politics you're ruinin esports -.-
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On October 08 2013 06:14 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 06:09 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 08 2013 06:06 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 05:52 Bigtony wrote:On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice. All plane tickets are non-transferable and non-refundable. You can pay substantially more for a transferable/refundable version. I just checked and it costs €120 to change a €988 ticket with Lufthansa. If you want to cancel it, it costs €180. I dare say IEM can afford this. I dare say that whoever wants to take ForGG's place can afford it. nerchio nor grubby were never asked, pretty sure they'd take it otherwise
IEM asked them, Grubby declined because they told him about a open bracket spot and Nerchio doesnt like to fly outside of EU. According to Grubbys post at reddit, it seems that grubby wants to come since it is about a spot at main tournament which revival takes.
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On October 08 2013 06:36 j1nzo wrote:
just stupid... i gotta hand it to the american government to give out regular sports visas to traditional and esports athletes likewise- at least in lol...
i hope we will soon have that for all countries and (e)sports.
come on politics you're ruinin esports -.-
You realize that ForGG is forfeiting the event to get a working permit in france, not because he couldn't get a visa for the u.s.?
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On October 08 2013 07:02 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 06:14 sharkie wrote:On October 08 2013 06:09 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 08 2013 06:06 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 05:52 Bigtony wrote:On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice. All plane tickets are non-transferable and non-refundable. You can pay substantially more for a transferable/refundable version. I just checked and it costs €120 to change a €988 ticket with Lufthansa. If you want to cancel it, it costs €180. I dare say IEM can afford this. I dare say that whoever wants to take ForGG's place can afford it. nerchio nor grubby were never asked, pretty sure they'd take it otherwise IEM asked them, Grubby declined because they told him about a open bracket spot and Nerchio doesnt like to fly outside of EU. According to Grubbys post at reddit, it seems that grubby wants to come since it is about a spot at main tournament which revival takes.
They didn't. They asked Grubby BEFORE forGG forfeited for a spot in the open bracket. After forGG forfeited, they went straight to Revival. And where did Nerchio say he didn't take the spot (assuming he was asked) because he didn't like to fly out of EU?
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On October 08 2013 06:36 j1nzo wrote:
just stupid... i gotta hand it to the american government to give out regular sports visas to traditional and esports athletes likewise- at least in lol...
i hope we will soon have that for all countries and (e)sports.
come on politics you're ruinin esports -.-
While I fully admit that our government's visa policy is poor, it doent mean every f***ing travel issue is their fault.
ForGG is dealing with FRENCH immigration; not related to the US at all.
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While this situation wasnt handled well, the outcome isnt terrible, tho its not great either.
Revival DESERVED a seed; he's the reigning CHAMP for goodness sake, and instead they gave seeds to Flash and TLO with ZERO explanation. They have said that those 4 wildcard spots are based on points, so why would Flash even be considered? And Revival surely should have been offered the spot before TLO due to higher point ranking.
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They didn't. They asked Grubby BEFORE forGG forfeited for a spot in the open bracket. After forGG forfeited, they went straight to Revival. And where did Nerchio say he didn't take the spot (assuming he was asked) because he didn't like to fly out of EU?
Revival was not suddenly asked after Forgg was unable to attend. He was on a list of people who said they would take any non-paid place in the tournament back at the beginning. Grubby and Nercio were asked at the same point and declined the option. Yes, the situation has changed and they could've gone back to them after finding out Forgg was unable to attend, but writing it this way makes it sound like they suddenly went to Revival and offered him a decision based on the current seed he got. He would've taken a position into any bracket based on the fact that he applied in the beginning.
I'd be interested to know why Grubby and Nerchio wouldn't have put their name down for the list initially. Is the difference between the seed and the open bracket so large that it was make or break for the cost of the flight? I wouldn't pretend to know the details of such a decision but I'd be interested to learn why. Obviously Revival has an interest in taking any chance he can get for WCS points so it makes sense that he would take any spot.
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This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself.
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On October 08 2013 09:49 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
They have said that those 4 wildcard spots are based on points, so why would Flash even be considered?
Inviting Flash before Revival makes sense if you consider they want people to watch the tournament.
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On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself.
Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals.
Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern.
For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins?
SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2.
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On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2.
This is actually a good point. All that talk about game design/ catering to the casuals. Maybe just because foreigners are too far behind Koreans. The first WCS finals of Mvp vs Stephano had 120k viewers. SC2 would be a lot more popular if the foreigners could be at least code A level.
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So next time Grubby knows he can be evil and say he wants an unpayed trip spot if it is available and only take it if it suits him, but I like the nice Grubby more.
Wonder why Revival was on that list though, since he declined the Wildcard seed offer. Something people found funny before, since Revival is the champion and didn't get a seed.
Shows how tight the schedules are this year. Guess he thought he wouldn't need IEM and wants to be save now. Good to see ESL sticking to their system in case of forfeits.
As for that we want foreigners. Doubt alot of new talents will emerge in Korea with them being all doom and gloom over there. If that keeps up, foreigners can catch up or atleast zerg Koreans down again. Especially since the Kespa taking over panic is gone after it failed and they are preparing the pull out. So they have less pressure train there now. (except the ones that want on foreign teams)
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On October 08 2013 14:08 FeyFey wrote:
So next time Grubby knows he can be evil and say he wants an unpayed trip spot if it is available and only take it if it suits him, but I like the nice Grubby more.
Wonder why Revival was on that list though, since he declined the Wildcard seed offer. Something people found funny before, since Revival is the champion and didn't get a seed.
Shows how tight the schedules are this year. Guess he thought he wouldn't need IEM and wants to be save now. Good to see ESL sticking to their system in case of forfeits.
As for that we want foreigners. Doubt alot of new talents will emerge in Korea with them being all doom and gloom over there. If that keeps up, foreigners can catch up or atleast zerg Koreans down again. Especially since the Kespa taking over panic is gone after it failed and they are preparing the pull out. So they have less pressure train there now. (except the ones that want on foreign teams)
I wasnt aware he denied it originally, do you have a link?
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On October 08 2013 06:09 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 06:06 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 05:52 Bigtony wrote:On October 08 2013 05:41 BaneRiders wrote:On October 08 2013 01:44 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 08 2013 01:31 HoboJoe20 wrote:From Nazroth on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtf8dIn answer to the issues raised with replacing ForGG with Revival, we wanted to make sure everyone was clear on how this happened. Firstly, ForGG still has a flight, he chose not to take it, however it was booked for him and remains valid if he wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as the flight was already booked we cannot in the short space of time grant the paid slot to those players next in line (Nerchio and Grubby) thus have to look at those players who have requested un-paid slots if one comes up. Revival was on that list of players and agreed when approached to attend at very short notice. The price of doing so is not insignificant, so obviously not everyone could afford a last minute un-paid slot. Both Nerchio and Grubby were approached some time ago and asked if they wanted an un-paid slot if it came up and both declined.
We do however apologise that our rules on replacements aren’t clear enough and will make sure this is corrected. Apologies for the confusion. Now its even more fucked. Grubby: "I don't know about Nerchio but I was asked regarding an unpaid slot in the open bracket, not in the main tournament. There's an important difference. I do appreciate the quick answer and explanation. #visaissuesdosuck" Yeah, this certainly deserves an explanation. Revival pays his ticket and get straight into the main tournament?? EU loses a spot and Korea gets one. It would have made more sense giving a random guy in NY a chance if you need a last minute replacement. That at least wouldn't impact the qualification for the WCS Grand Finals. Also, why on earth do they not buy tickets that can be changed? The ticket price difference can't be that high and how many cases have we seen this year alone where players all of a sudden have a visa issue or something else that stops them from participating on short notice. All plane tickets are non-transferable and non-refundable. You can pay substantially more for a transferable/refundable version. I just checked and it costs €120 to change a €988 ticket with Lufthansa. If you want to cancel it, it costs €180. I dare say IEM can afford this. I dare say that whoever wants to take ForGG's place can afford it.
That may be the case, but it is not the point discussion. I'm saying the IEM organization is poor if there is no contingency for this. I'm not complaining about Nerchio or Grubby refusing to pay for a ticket and get a spot in the main tournament, but it doesn't look like they got the offer in any case.
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YAY! Congrats 4GG! Thank you for bringing some happiness into the Sc2 scene :D
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On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2.
Your argument makes no sense. You realize that paying a lot of money so Koreans can play in the early rounds only makes the domination even worse? NA / EU players can beat any Korean players occasionally, but not the huge amount needed to go deep in tournaments now. It makes even less sense to pay money for people to attend tournaments when this makes them so much more expensive to run. Or do EU / NA tournaments advertise a lot of Korean products....
Comparing SC2 to sports.... 95% of people follow their local / national teams not overseas countries teams that speak little English. A few teams like a few players manage international success, but htey are the exception (like MC does)
You raise a good point though. If i follow European players and they never progress far because they are versus huge amounts of Korean players why would I and many others watch............. oh wait.... we don't watch...
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On October 08 2013 09:49 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
While this situation wasnt handled well, the outcome isnt terrible, tho its not great either.
Revival DESERVED a seed; he's the reigning CHAMP for goodness sake, and instead they gave seeds to Flash and TLO with ZERO explanation. They have said that those 4 wildcard spots are based on points, so why would Flash even be considered? And Revival surely should have been offered the spot before TLO due to higher point ranking.
You fail to understand how IEM works. They have never gave invite to reigning champion. Go to IEM website and they tell same there.
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On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2.
Replace "nature of humanity" with "nature of western teams" and I agree to a certain extent.
Anyways, on topic. I wonder whether we'll see another statement from an ESL official. They were relatively quick with their first response.
edit: and I agree with not fielding the previous champ. Don't get fooled by the huge prize pool, the incredible lineup of players and the overwhelming production value. Each IEM tournament is in of itself a qualification tournament for an even bigger event. The true champion of IEM will be crowned at the world finals.
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IEM twisting the words to justify giving the spot to revival. Obviously its a very different situation now than when they asked grubby if he wanted a unpaid spot in the open bracket. I suppose EG has alot of strings they can pull and they take care of their players and thats their job but I thought IEM had a bit more integrity than this.
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On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2.
What you say makes sense, however IEM describes itself as a tournament that invites players from "all over the world", always seeking for a global representation. NA and EU qualifiers spots are meant to be given to NA/EU players and/or players who reside in those regions. A korean residing in France (ForGG) is allowed to take part in the EU qualifier, however when he drops you would expect IEM to be coherent with its own philosophy and invite the next player on the list (Nerchio) rather than randomly inviting a player like Revival who played the KR qualifier.
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Wat bugs me is that these explanations should come with the announcement, instead of being posted later on Reddit... ah well
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On October 08 2013 20:09 Ketch wrote:
Wat bugs me is that these explanations should come with the announcement, instead of being posted later on Reddit... ah well
Well, so far there has only been one explanation, and the one ESL official probably posted it prematurely hoping that it explains everything, which it did not. Happens to me all the time, when I think I finished my work properly and then notice all sorts of mistake in it. 
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On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself.
Im the opposite, I rather see highest level play, no matter what country is the players origin.
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On October 08 2013 18:51 Fjodorov wrote:
IEM twisting the words to justify giving the spot to revival. Obviously its a very different situation now than when they asked grubby if he wanted a unpaid spot in the open bracket. I suppose EG has alot of strings they can pull and they take care of their players and thats their job but I thought IEM had a bit more integrity than this.
Please stop with the retarded conspiracy theories here. Take that shit somewhere else.
It would probably be better for IEM to have a popular foreigner like Grubby there raher than having another second class korean. They made a mistake when they reviewed the list of people accepting unpaid invites by not realizing the list was originally for invites to the Dual tournament and not Ro16. That doesn't mean the Esports mafia is run by EG.
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On October 08 2013 20:42 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 18:51 Fjodorov wrote:
IEM twisting the words to justify giving the spot to revival. Obviously its a very different situation now than when they asked grubby if he wanted a unpaid spot in the open bracket. I suppose EG has alot of strings they can pull and they take care of their players and thats their job but I thought IEM had a bit more integrity than this. Please stop with the retarded conspiracy theories here. Take that shit somewhere else. It would probably be better for IEM to have a popular foreigner like Grubby there raher than having another second class korean. They made a mistake when they reviewed the list of people accepting unpaid invites by not realizing the list was originally for invites to the Dual tournament and not Ro16. That doesn't mean the Esports mafia is run by EG.
yeah obviously just an honest mistake and it was totaly random that Revival was picked from this list you refer to...
Why are you talking about mafia? EG is a huge team and has a lot of influence and connections. It isnt very far fetched to think that they heard about this situation and pushed for their cause. Im not even saying its anything wrong with that, just saying I think its likely thats the reason IEM handled this to fast and didnt look close enough on all the details involved.
You version of the "truth" is that everything is just a mistake and nothing really happens for a reason. Thats more far fetched than my theory. But we are both entitled to our opinions.
Have a good day.
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On October 08 2013 15:53 ContrailNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. Your argument makes no sense. You realize that paying a lot of money so Koreans can play in the early rounds only makes the domination even worse? NA / EU players can beat any Korean players occasionally, but not the huge amount needed to go deep in tournaments now. It makes even less sense to pay money for people to attend tournaments when this makes them so much more expensive to run. Or do EU / NA tournaments advertise a lot of Korean products.... Comparing SC2 to sports.... 95% of people follow their local / national teams not overseas countries teams that speak little English. A few teams like a few players manage international success, but htey are the exception (like MC does) You raise a good point though. If i follow European players and they never progress far because they are versus huge amounts of Korean players why would I and many others watch............. oh wait.... we don't watch...
That's his point. He said that you (and many other viewers) care more about what country someone comes from than anything that is actually relevant to the game. So tournaments either have to invite people who are really terrible simply because of where they're born OR they have to invite the people that actually deserve the spots.
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On October 09 2013 01:28 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 15:53 ContrailNZ wrote:On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. Your argument makes no sense. You realize that paying a lot of money so Koreans can play in the early rounds only makes the domination even worse? NA / EU players can beat any Korean players occasionally, but not the huge amount needed to go deep in tournaments now. It makes even less sense to pay money for people to attend tournaments when this makes them so much more expensive to run. Or do EU / NA tournaments advertise a lot of Korean products.... Comparing SC2 to sports.... 95% of people follow their local / national teams not overseas countries teams that speak little English. A few teams like a few players manage international success, but htey are the exception (like MC does) You raise a good point though. If i follow European players and they never progress far because they are versus huge amounts of Korean players why would I and many others watch............. oh wait.... we don't watch... That's his point. He said that you (and many other viewers) care more about what country someone comes from than anything that is actually relevant to the game. So tournaments either have to invite people who are really terrible simply because of where they're born OR they have to invite the people that actually deserve the spots.
If people worked like they did in your idealistic world sport would die off in a few years when no one chose to support lesser skilled players / teams.
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On October 08 2013 21:12 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 20:42 Vorenius wrote:On October 08 2013 18:51 Fjodorov wrote:
IEM twisting the words to justify giving the spot to revival. Obviously its a very different situation now than when they asked grubby if he wanted a unpaid spot in the open bracket. I suppose EG has alot of strings they can pull and they take care of their players and thats their job but I thought IEM had a bit more integrity than this. Please stop with the retarded conspiracy theories here. Take that shit somewhere else. It would probably be better for IEM to have a popular foreigner like Grubby there raher than having another second class korean. They made a mistake when they reviewed the list of people accepting unpaid invites by not realizing the list was originally for invites to the Dual tournament and not Ro16. That doesn't mean the Esports mafia is run by EG. yeah obviously just an honest mistake and it was totaly random that Revival was picked from this list you refer to... Why are you talking about mafia? EG is a huge team and has a lot of influence and connections. It isnt very far fetched to think that they heard about this situation and pushed for their cause. Im not even saying its anything wrong with that, just saying I think its likely thats the reason IEM handled this to fast and didnt look close enough on all the details involved. You version of the "truth" is that everything is just a mistake and nothing really happens for a reason. Thats more far fetched than my theory. But we are both entitled to our opinions. Have a good day.
We have NO PROOF of whether it is an honest mistake or something shady.
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Im the opposite, I rather see highest level play, no matter what country is the players origin.
Personally I totally agree with this. Really doesn't bother me where the person is from geographically. I have my favourite team and support every one of those players over their opponent when they're playing in a game, but I'm really there to see the highest level of play possible. Its why I love SC2 as an Esport. The level of skill it takes to play at Jaedong's level is so insane that I am left in awe and can't help but be fixated to the screen.
Sure I wish more NA and EU players were at that level and meeting that level of play, but at the end of the day if they can't play at that level it won't diminish my appreciation for the level at which the others are playing at.
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F**k the french administration effciency/flexibility. And I'm french...
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i am confused. is the Open Bracket the same as the Dual Tournament?
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does this mean he can stream more?
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IEM is seriously messsed up with 3 missing players.... I love his aggressive style and NO MORE ZvZ PLEASE
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sucks really like forgg - still good replacement imo
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 09 2013 19:15 Beta2k wrote:
i am confused. is the Open Bracket the same as the Dual Tournament?
yes
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x-posting this from Reddit, how things should have gone: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtkh1
How this seems it was handled:
ESL Guy: Hey Nerchio (Grubby), wanna come to IEM NY open bracket? You gotta pay it on your own though.
Nerchio: Lol, do I look like I shit money?
Grubby: Thank you for this offer. However, given the likelihood that I would have to pay a significant amount of money while potentially not making it out of the open bracket, I must pass, unfortunately.
...
ESL Manager: ForGG has forfeited his spot. We should now re-approach Nerchio/Grubby right?
ESL Guy: Nah. They already said it's too expensive for them and bla bla...
ESL Manager: Well, let's offer this spot to someone else in an outrageously non-transparent fashion.
Team EG: Hello. $_$
How this should have been handled:
Dear Mr. Bloch (Mr. Schenkhuizen),
In light of our conversation from {DD/MM/YYYY} regarding the unpaid slot in the IEM New York Open Bracket which you rejected, I would like to inform you about a new opportunity to participate in the tournament. Due to undisclosed circumstances, Mr. Park (ForGG), who has obtained his spot through the EU qualifier, is unable to participate. We are now looking for someone who is willing to replace him in the main part (group stage) of the tournament. Since you were the next highest-ranked player in the qualifier, we believe it is fair that this spot is offered to you. Please, keep in mind that we are unable to provide any sponsorship related to the travel and accommodation. If you happen to be interested in accepting this spot, please contact me within XX days on {email}, {telephone number}, {skype}.
Sincerely,
Mr. Easy Communication
ESL
Both funny, and unfortunately, accurate. Shame on IEM that they handled the forfeits of Polt, StarDust and ForGG so incredibly badly, and refused to give invited to other EU/US-based players. Sloppy, sloppy organization.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 08 2013 07:05 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 06:36 j1nzo wrote:
just stupid... i gotta hand it to the american government to give out regular sports visas to traditional and esports athletes likewise- at least in lol...
i hope we will soon have that for all countries and (e)sports.
come on politics you're ruinin esports -.- You realize that ForGG is forfeiting the event to get a working permit in france, not because he couldn't get a visa for the u.s.?
i know, but i'm criticizing how the countries are dealing with esports athletes in general. how many times did we see that pros couldn't attend tournaments/events due to visa issues.
i only brought the us as an example b/c they just recently changed the visa regulations for (lol) pros which is (imo) a step into the right direction.
so i hope other countries will follow that example soon...
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EPT
